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I agree. And I, my wife, my daughter, and my mother all work in a school every day. (40/30/20/ and 1 year between us) Four different schools. We all have security officers. (Only one had a firearm, as he’s stationed there as a police officer).  But they are each only one man, to cover a large area.   And we all agree…guns are not the problem.   I’ll say that poor parenting is the problem.  I think my ladies would agree, but I can’t speak for them.
I am just tonight  hearing about this possibility that the police were waiting outside of that school for almost an hour, I didn’t watch the news at all today, that’s just doesn’t even seem possible, but if that’s the case they all need to go

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8 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

I am just tonight  hearing about this possibility that the police were waiting outside of that school for almost an hour, I didn’t watch the news at all today, that’s just doesn’t even seem possible, but if that’s the case they all need to go

It appears to be true.

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Ya last night on the news

it was reported that the law waited 1 Hr to enter the school

and that was wen the Border Patrol arrived on scene 

every day its a different story

Mike 

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14 hours ago, MTB98 said:

So what can be done “to fix the problem”?

red flag laws, back ground check and 3 day wait on gun purchase, for open carry , license and 5 hr training class.

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At local High School , only 2 doors to enter all other locked, 2 armed policeman on guard at doors, video  cameras on all doors. during school hrs. you ring a buzzer and show valid ID to get in.

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Do I have all the answers? No! Is banning a object the answer? Again no!

What could have prevented this tragedy? One acess point with 2 sets of doors that have to be buzzed into separately. Is it more work yes? Could it have saved lives absolutely. My opinion every school should have this protocol after school starts, protocol must be followed. It's useless if it doesn't work.

My bet is not one of these shooters came from a good home. Drugs, abuse, something in the past has happened to cause them to go off the rails. 

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I will reserve judgement on the police until more facts are known.  If he was still actively shooting people when they stayed outside shame on them!  If he was contained in a class room with no one still alive in there and the police just kept him contained there until trained breachers arrived, then that is a different story.  We just don't know all the facts, and the way the media spin them it may be quite a while before we do.  If he was truly roaming free in the school all that time more would have died.  I am sure the teachers locked the children in the classrooms trying to keep them safe, but if he were roaming free I hate to say he probably would have killed more.

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What a great time to be a cop. They kill somebody and then the armchair police officers decide the cops should go to jail. They don’t kill somebody and the cops should go to jail. These are impossible, high stress, high pressure, no win situations. The last several years in the USA are causing police to make bad choices because they know no one will back them up later. Everyday it seems like they are putting another police officer in jail. Does anybody think that’s not a factor?

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12 hours ago, cjf711 said:

I have 7 teachers In my family including blood and in-laws.  They are in southern Illinois, Chicago burbs, Kentucky, Colorado and Tennessee. None think arming teachers is anything they want to be part of. 

if you want to arm teachers at all you need to get teachers to support this, or replace them with teachers who are open to it.  Until then it’s not going to be feasible.  Given that as everyone says teachers are vastly made up of liberal woke types, this is going to be a major hurdle.

 

I have always had serious doubts about arming teachers, and further, thought it was kind of a slap in the face to the level of training that police receive, especially those trained to deal with dangerous, high leveraged hostage, etc type situations.

 

"Here you go, Miss Lillywhite... put this weapon in your desk drawer. Then, if some nutcase comes in with guns blazing, you just stand up here and pick him off. It's really no different than playing a video game, or flicking a ladybug off your sleeve at a picnic. Once you finish, you can go right back to diagramming sentances with your students..."

I do know that looking back over my k- 12 years, there are VERY few (like maybe 1) teachers that I would have put anywhere close to that level of faith in.

 

 

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I believe I have read one European country, the government issues 1 fire arm per family and all citizens take a fire arm training course. 

A mandatory nation wide firearm course might not be a bad idea? Doesn't mean you have to own one but knowing how they work and how to handle one would not be a bad idea. 

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52 minutes ago, nomorejohndeere said:

What would keep them from shooting through the doors or windows if they are locked?

Bullet proof backpacks and run zigzag...

 

 

If the floor of the school at the class rooms is 4-6above grade and the window is 2 feet above that the upward angle would blind the shooter. Solid doors would help.  Multiple Strong magnetic locks would help. 

Out town just built additional class rooms I was po they were not solid concrete walls schools are very soft targets..we can change that and still look inviting.

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1 hour ago, Red Collector said:

I have always had serious doubts about arming teachers, and further, thought it was kind of a slap in the face to the level of training that police receive, especially those trained to deal with dangerous, high leveraged hostage, etc type situations.

 

"Here you go, Miss Lillywhite... put this weapon in your desk drawer. Then, if some nutcase comes in with guns blazing, you just stand up here and pick him off. It's really no different than playing a video game, or flicking a ladybug off your sleeve at a picnic. Once you finish, you can go right back to diagramming sentances with your students..."

I do know that looking back over my k- 12 years, there are VERY few (like maybe 1) teachers that I would have put anywhere close to that level of faith in.

 

 

I am speaking for myself and no one else.

I am not suggesting a handgun in every teachers drawer.

But I would consider the option of allowing a teacher to be trained to carry for the protection of staff and students.

I have known and still know teachers that would be capable.

When I took a concealed carry course, the instructor opened the class with this question.

Are you willing to take another person's life?

It was a sobering and thought provoking question.

I don't think anyone is advocating handing out guns like chalk board erasers. I sure am not.

I do believe their are individuals capable of fulfilling this role.

I also believe retired military or police could be hired for this role.

A presence is a very powerful deterrent. And if a confrontation does ensure, I would want to be confident in the ability of the person responding to the threat.

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1 hour ago, Red Collector said:

I have always had serious doubts about arming teachers, and further, thought it was kind of a slap in the face to the level of training that police receive, especially those trained to deal with dangerous, high leveraged hostage, etc type situations.

 

"Here you go, Miss Lillywhite... put this weapon in your desk drawer. Then, if some nutcase comes in with guns blazing, you just stand up here and pick him off. It's really no different than playing a video game, or flicking a ladybug off your sleeve at a picnic. Once you finish, you can go right back to diagramming sentances with your students..."

I do know that looking back over my k- 12 years, there are VERY few (like maybe 1) teachers that I would have put anywhere close to that level of faith in.

 

 

Most teachers don't have the correct mentality and training to do so. Some do. It takes a lot of training to feel comfortable to carry and take a shot in a crowd of people.

So many shooters however do not need taken out, they just need armed resistance. It breaks them out of there evil plan and they take themselves out or they just surrender. We are not talking a trained and skilled shooter we are talking about a dirt bag who just got guns a few days ago and hasn't put in training to act under fire. 

 

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2 hours ago, sandhiller said:

I am speaking for myself and no one else.

I am not suggesting a handgun in every teachers drawer.

But I would consider the option of allowing a teacher to be trained to carry for the protection of staff and students.

I have known and still know teachers that would be capable.

When I took a concealed carry course, the instructor opened the class with this question.

Are you willing to take another person's life?

It was a sobering and thought provoking question.

I don't think anyone is advocating handing out guns like chalk board erasers. I sure am not.

I do believe their are individuals capable of fulfilling this role.

I also believe retired military or police could be hired for this role.

A presence is a very powerful deterrent. And if a confrontation does ensure, I would want to be confident in the ability of the person responding to the threat.

This seems like the most sensible approach to me.

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18 hours ago, cjf711 said:

I have 7 teachers In my family including blood and in-laws.  They are in southern Illinois, Chicago burbs, Kentucky, Colorado and Tennessee. None think arming teachers is anything they want to be part of. 

if you want to arm teachers at all you need to get teachers to support this, or replace them with teachers who are open to it.  Until then it’s not going to be feasible.  Given that as everyone says teachers are vastly made up of liberal woke types, this is going to be a major hurdle.

 

The police station was 1.3 miles away, there were over 30 cops at the school but did noting for 45 min. We dodn't need untrain wanna be cowboys have a shoot out in side a school.

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9 hours ago, supermpuller said:

red flag laws, back ground check and 3 day wait on gun purchase, for open carry , license and 5 hr training class.

Would any of those have prevented this tragedy?  Are any of these in place in certain states?  Is gun violence less where rules such as these are in place?

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4 hours ago, MTB98 said:

Would any of those have prevented this tragedy?  Are any of these in place in certain states?  Is gun violence less where rules such as these are in place?

This is my wondering also, case in point, this shiithole I live in has "gun control" basically feelgood crap by morons who couldnt run a paper shack, the head boob has already stated kanuckistan sends wishes to texas and knows more has to be done to make us safer, from who? Legal licensed gun owners, thats who, shiitrats and gang guys be damn, make it so  jake can't go to a dealer for work unless he has transport papers stating such. This boob talks like a senator making points on a tragedy more so than in charge of another country, same as donkey mouth bleating her take on guns.

So go back to 2020, no not hindsite, the year, a mass murder of 22 people was done by a peece of shiit with no licence, a private made police car, unregistered guns, access to and using multi round mags, but we have "gun control". Lucky us.

And to add insult to murder the scoc made a 9-0 decision today that life for mass murder and a no parole offer is cruel and unusual punishment, killer gets a 25 year faint hope chance, because he might rehab.

This stuff can't be made up, the inmates are running the fuckin prison and we are paying for it.

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2 hours ago, supermpuller said:

The police station was 1.3 miles away, there were over 30 cops at the school but did noting for 45 min. We dodn't need untrain wanna be cowboys have a shoot out in side a school.

Not that I trust any MSM but they say he took 10 mins from crashing his truck, shooting outside at a couple people before he entered the school, if PS was 1.3 miles away he should have never made it inside, not to mention an armed good Samaritan might have been able to pick him off in the neighborhood as soon as gunfire erupted 

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There is a lot of talk about the police that is coming out now, the head guy for the district police dept is now saying mistakes were made and explanations need to be forthcoming, multi 911 calls from kids whispering the room the shooter was in, abbott is livid, Ive got my own feelings about this and Im keeping silent til all facts are in, Ive been involved in one high pressure hostage situation years ago, and if you cut a loud fart everyone jumped, the in charge was in charge good or bad it landed on that head, when answers are done then we can decide then.

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....seems most of the teachers in New Zealand Universities  ...are left wing nut jobs anyway...

...the university...a hot bed of Socialism.....and after the Muslim fiasco...a  female Professor  came out with the startling  revelation that no Male over the age of fifty years...should be allowed to own a firearm...because of their diminished cognitive ability......You can imagine her attitude to firearms....

Mike

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I saw on Facebook that he had some high dollar rifles? If so, where did he get the money from. Also heard that he had full body armor on. Where did that come from and why did the combination not throw a major flag? 
I don’t know the answer to any of the questions, but there’s enough “big brother over my shoulder” that they should have foreseen what was coming.  

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Just a thought. There were very few school shootings when the schools were funded locally instead of federally. 

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