IH 3800 Industrial backhoe

[Jeff-C-IL]

11 minutes ago, blacksmith said:

I'm not quite sure why it is, but I usually end up getting things that are blackhole information wise. 

 

I suppose I'm lucky that way 

That one is too obvious...it requires a blacksmith to work on the black hole machinery....😄

I simply use grease on the valve cover gasket.   Permatex if you never need to remove it again (ya right).   I'm sure there are better options.  Don't overtighten the top bolts and warp the cover.

I'm really impressed by the resto on the threading machine....NICE!

[Binderoid]

On 5/20/2022 at 8:16 PM, blacksmith said:

Is Seth involved with the SAAB Rally scene?  Years back I instigated a Gripper Diff buy with the company in the UK..  Imported like 20 units.. 

On a different note I took out the tachometer to make sure it worked as there was no cable and it does..  I bought a cable last week so will get that installed.. 

Any of you guys recommend a certain filter housing and filter..  the unit on 3800 was extremely cross threaded..  I was like what in sam hill is this buggery.. 

I dented the cannister trying to get it off..  I will weld a large nut on the bottom tomorrow and see If i can get it apart that way.. 

But ideally I think I'd be better off replacing it..  So recommendations needed..   Thanks 

Before changing to a spin-on, better make sure what kind of pressure is in that filter. I tried changing to a spin-on on a Clark trans, and it would blow the can off in a few days time. You sure that’s the trans filter and not the hydraulic? The trans filter is considerably larger than that, with a PF-132 cartridge in it. Unless IHC set up their system different than Lorain. But regarding your thread problem, let a machinist look at it before you spend a bunch on a change-over.

[E160BHM]

On 5/22/2022 at 8:22 AM, blacksmith said:

Now that is a sump magnet one can appreciate..   

I'd love to find something like in a 3/4" pipe..      

I've been looking and all the plugs out there for the 3/4" size are tiny..   

I'm going to have to make something or will have to install a 3/4" SAAB transmission drain plug.. They were magnetic from the early 60's.. 

If you are close to a Cat dealer, here is a list of Cat magnetic drain plugs from an old One Safe Source catalog.  

 

[blacksmith]

7 hours ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

That one is too obvious...it requires a blacksmith to work on the black hole machinery....😄

I simply use grease on the valve cover gasket.   Permatex if you never need to remove it again (ya right).   I'm sure there are better options.  Don't overtighten the top bolts and warp the cover.

I'm really impressed by the resto on the threading machine....NICE!

Thanks..  That poor threader..  I've wanted that type for years..  Up to 4" pipe too..   I will use it for twisting bars as well. 

How tight is to tight?   Finger tight?  Water hose tight?  or just tight enough your afraid you will break something?   

4 hours ago, Binderoid said:

Before changing to a spin-on, better make sure what kind of pressure is in that filter. I tried changing to a spin-on on a Clark trans, and it would blow the can off in a few days time. You sure that’s the trans filter and not the hydraulic? The trans filter is considerably larger than that, with a PF-132 cartridge in it. Unless IHC set up their system different than Lorain. But regarding your thread problem, let a machinist look at it before you spend a bunch on a change-over.

I won't be changing the filter and yes I'm sure its the transmission filter..    

The housing when it was assembled was a 2 piece deal..  Welded around to the bottom part..  So the threads looked cross threaded.. 

I posted photos of the inside before..    It threaded together perfectly and works as it should.. 

Maybe some help with locating a filter.. I'm, not sure which number is which..  

 

[Jeff-C-IL]

Tight -  I'm most familiar with the 400 series motors.    You made sure the cover was not spread, that the little flanges on the inside of the gasket surface fit down into the head so the gasket is captured correctly.  (A spread cover from overtightening the flanges will sit on top of the head, and leave a gap.)    Then use the bolts with the washer/rubber seal to snug the cover down (I always drew them down equally).   I'm sure there is a spec....I just tightened them so there was a little tension/compression of the cover. (ya know, put about THIS much moxie on the 3/8" ratchet).   If I had to guess, about 15flb?

[blacksmith]

12 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Tight -  I'm most familiar with the 400 series motors.    You made sure the cover was not spread, that the little flanges on the inside of the gasket surface fit down into the head so the gasket is captured correctly.  (A spread cover from overtightening the flanges will sit on top of the head, and leave a gap.)    Then use the bolts with the washer/rubber seal to snug the cover down (I always drew them down equally).   I'm sure there is a spec....I just tightened them so there was a little tension/compression of the cover. (ya know, put about THIS much moxie on the 3/8" ratchet).   If I had to guess, about 15flb?

The new gasket fit the cover Or I should say has the same outline..  

There are no lips, flanges or anything to keep the gasket or valve cover in place and you can move it around over the heads surface.

The exhaust manifold on the right is there to stop if from sliding as is the valve train inside. 

This cover has copper gaskets instead of rubber..  The holes on the front are straight and the 2 towards the back of the motor are angled from the factory but the bolts still go straight down. 

I annealed the copper washers before putting it back together. 
 

[iowaboy1965]

Interesting topic! Looks like you do good work. 

[blacksmith]

13 hours ago, iowaboy1965 said:

Interesting topic! Looks like you do good work. 

thanks..  Neat old machine for sure..  I'm a tad of a perfectionist..  Tempered with ah, that's good enough..   LOL.. 

I knew some mechanics that would do everything wrong.. Never clean a part or wheel bearing or mating surfaces and they would never have a leak.. 

I clean everything nearly enough to eat off of,  and get a leak everytime..      Another really funny one is" I can't drill a straight hole even with a drill press..   But then when I try to make a crooked hole, it comes out straight..   Go figure. 

[blacksmith]

Does anyone know the model of backhoe attached to he body?  I've seen different numbers elsewhere..  3414 I think is one of them that was used on a completely different model.. 

It used the same type of swing mechanism though. 

On the bottom of the swing there is a gap between the nut and the body of the swing and bearing. 

The mount on the tractor is a U shape which tells me there was some sort of spacer there..  The spacer is missing and can not find a picture of it to make a new one. 

I can not find the part number in the catalog either. 

[hardtail]

Wain Roy might have been one if it wasn't IH

[blacksmith]

@hardtail I sent Wain Roy a message..  Thanks for the lead.. Maybe get lucky.. 

[blacksmith]

The gauges in the unit have engine oil pressure, water temp  and RPM, trans temp, converter pressure, glow plugs, 

What gauge is a good replacement for the trans temp and converter pressure?  

What is the range for converter pressure? 

[blacksmith]

So still going strong on the 3800.. 

I've been collecting gauges, switches, fuse holders, wiring components and getting ready to replace the console wiring harness.. 

The connections are Delphi 56 series..    I bought silicon jacket tinned copper wire vs the original which I imagine there is a source someplace. 

I bought the connectors and all the spade crimp connectors so basically will have the same connectors as original. 

The Neutral safety switch was also installed as the original was toast. 

 

[blacksmith]

I also got the rear window functional.. All the rollers were stuck and had major flat spots.. 

Nearly impossible to get the rear window up or down. 

So bought 43mm skate wheels that had an 8mm hole (5/16") and some 5/16" coupling nuts..

Some flat top screws 5/16".. 

Cut all the nuts to about 1.5 the size of stock nuts, welded them onto the original brackets after removing the original shafts and wheels.. 

Works great. 

[hardtail]

You are doing some really nice work, any lead on the backhoe info?

[blacksmith]

As for leads.. I did run into a guy on FB IH industrial group that got me in touch with a buddy of his..  This buddy has 2 of these machines that came from a coal mine..   One is a parts machine the other is not running but was.. 

I reached out to the guy and he said he will take the parts machine apart as he needed to get into it anyhow and will take a phgto and maybe get a few of the washers made..   

As for exact model of the backhoe unit..   I have not located the exact model info..   I reached out to Wainroy but never heard back. 

I have done some searching and 3414 comes up but when I do a search it just brings up a whole tractor backhoe.. 

What I have seen is the swing type rack/pinion is used on a bunch of the early models.  And this in lye's the problem.. 

Being able to identify by specs what it will and won't do..  I don't have enough knowledge on IH to know and compare.. 

On this machine it will dig a 15' hole..  Will take a bucket as large as 36"


 

[blacksmith]

Nearly finished on the console wiring harness.

 

Interestingly I have the manuals and all 3 references are different. 

 

Not used to the way its wired.  Kinda backwards to me in a way. The power comes thru the harness to the switch. 

 

Old connector, old harness and new installed. 

1 more wire to go.

 

[blacksmith]

I have been steadily working on the harness and for the most part have it figured out.. The wiring in the main console loom no longer resembled any colors but black..  

So getting the correct nuances used on the original has been tough.   I've had to make more connector connection than I like using the screws to link them together vs crimps. 

I am reaching out because I need one more instrument light.. Its missing the pigtail, rubber grommet, bulb, glass shield and hood..    

 

[hardtail]

You looking for a duplicate of the one on the left side?

[blacksmith]

1 hour ago, hardtail said:

You looking for a duplicate of the one on the left side?

yes..  

 

[hardtail]

I know a guy, look in the mirror😁

JK, the pigtail light part should be easy it's just the housing which looks almost to be multi brand use back in its era

General Gear might have it

[Jeff-C-IL]

If you can give us some closeups of existing light, may be able to recommend a source.   Many places still cary generic "indicator" lamps.   You might try Waytekwire.com or Mouser.com.

[blacksmith]

I remember seeing these  types of lights for years on old industrial machines like bulldozers, graders, loaders and also on tractors.. 

Problem I'm having is matching up the model..   I figured this being a IH group that it would be a more common place type part.. 

The pigtail is the easy part..    The glass diffuser, and the hood are really the tough parts..  the grommet I can figure out and the pigtail is pretty easy to make.. 

I checked the engine harness and the wires have continuity to all the correct points and correct wire colors.. 

This is exciting since once the console is put back in and the new 8 pin connector then I should have all engine functions including glow plugs..  I'll have to run a new wire for the horn as the wire is decayed. 

 

[Jacka]

After all this work what are you going to do with it? It seems like your really into it and with your filter changes, not finding metal in screens and stuff it should be a good old horse.I enjoyed following your thread.I taken plenty of machines back from the dead and its satisfying when it all comes together.

[blacksmith]

1 minute ago, Jacka said:

After all this work what are you going to do with it? It seems like your really into it and with your filter changes, not finding metal in screens and stuff it should be a good old horse.I enjoyed following your thread.I taken plenty of machines back from the dead and its satisfying when it all comes together.

I love old iron..  Love the looks of this model from the first time seeing them. 

Thanks.. Hopefully this thread will help others who come up behind me..  There is so little information on these machines..


I'm hoping this machine will serve a multifunctional role.. I am hoping to put on a hydraulic quick connect for the bucket so can use forks and such. 

I don't make a bunch of money so can't afford new or newer used..   This was the right price and TLC and some dirty work is what I'm good at..    I study the manuals, work on the machines and get to know them inside and out.  Makes it possible to keep them going reliably.. 

I have a few of the Service manuals: owners/operators,  fuel pump,  Fuel service, chassis, parts, Engine, transmission, brake master..  Still looking to get my hands on a solid copy of the rockwell axle books..   The Chassis book has a good section on the rockwell specific to the IH so will do for now.