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D358 VA Injection Pump Problem- 826 tractor


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Well, yesterday, while planting soybeans, I had what appears to be an injection pump failure. Was running fine as normal, shut the engine off to fill the drill. Upon restart, it was hard to start and wouldn't idle well. Soon discovered It has no torque below about 1500 rpms but it will rev to normal high idle. I notice absolutely no black smoke, as is normal upon increasing throttle or load. I managed to nurse it along and almost finish the field (got rained out). With 8700+ hours, the tractor owes me nothing.... though the timing of this failure is unfortunate for me. It's the original Bosch VA pump. Some Questions.

1- It's Sunday, so I can't call around to see if any of the nearby shops can rebuild this pump, but from my research it looks like parts are scarce and most shops won't touch them. Is that true? Can anyone tell me what part in the pump might be at fault based on the symptoms? I am reading my manuals now but my experience on injection pumps is limited. I suspect the plunger and head to have issues... stuck maybe?

2- I see a couple of different new or reman replacements, both appearing to be VE pumps . They are stated to replace the VA on a D358. Anyone have any experience with them? I remember a few years back there was a Stanadyne DB replacement kit for the D358 but so far I have not see any still available. Any experience to share on any of these kits? Recommendations or cautions?

3- Though the symptoms do not match, I still cleaned the air filter and replaced the fuel filters as I grasped for straws. I'm not sure how hard it's going to be at this point to get a replacement pump, but if someone has a corncob to keep me going during planting (including some tillage), I'll add it to my quiver. We've had and will have more rain, enuf to hold me up for at least a week. Got a little time to deal with this.

 

Thanks for any tips.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Injpumped said:

Everyone blames the injection pump, you have a fuel to the pump restriction!

So with a fuel restriction, the engine will rev to 24-2600 with a full load (pulling a drill) but it won't idle or lug at lower rpm? It's almost normal above 1500 rpm but it can barely move under 1000 rpm. In my experience, low fuel flow has the exact opposite effect. If I am incorrect, please take some time to explain. I did replace the fuel filters.

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Not familiar with the 826, if it has a manual shut off cable or a shut off solenoid.
Make sure when the engine is running that the Fuel Control Lever is all the way forward touching the adjustment screw like the attached photo below.

Bosch-VA-Pump-Shaft_Seal_Outer-Side_LI.jpg.519a02fc46163a05fff4567af309d2df.jpg

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It's got a cable.

I just went out to move it from where I got rained out. It wouldn't start until I pulled the  cable partway up into the start position (I think it's called the "excess fuel position" in the manual). Normally it's not needed except on cold days. It started. Interestingly, with the throttle lever in the idle position, after a little warming up, it would not idle or barely idle (300rpm or so). Pull the cable, it revs to 1000 rpm. I run the engine up to 1500 rpm to move it and when I pull the cable out for excess fuel, it revs to 2000 rpm. I note that the throttle lever has to be way farther over than before to get rpms.

The tag says its a BR pump

EP/VA6/100H 1200 BR21

0460 306 110 R

I'll run through the cable adjustment again per the manual (I think it's right but it never hurts to double check)

I'll check the fuel flow to the pump from the filters. And the return.

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Our 248 industrial has a VA pump. 
one day it refused to start. Tank was full. Checked throttle /cold start. All ok. Changed filter. Bled it. Still no start. Not even a hjnt of smoke ftt try on exhaust.   Spoke to a couple of pump shops. After a lot of no parts available. You need a new pump etc. I thought I may as well remove it and take a look. Was pretty dirty inside and a bit rusty looking but nothing obvious wrong. Gave it a thorough clean. Replaced seals and o rings put it back on and now runs fine.   I have no idea what the problem was but when it was off I did flush tank and lines pretty thoroughly.   Our 856xXL would show bizarre symptoms when there was a fuel restriction. 
if we ever get what appear to be pump problems first job is always be 100% sure fuel to the pump is correct. That usually solves 98% of the problems. 
the other 2% are usually much more if a headache and a lot more expensive!

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Early on with the D179 VA3 I discovered that having fuel return line shut off would make the engine start running poorly after a few minutes.  For some reason the 464 has a shut-off valve on the fuel return line to the tank. 

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Well, I spent the morning going thru everything. Looked inside the tank- very clean. Checked fuel flow to the pump (thru the filters)- it could fill a pint cup in a couple of seconds with about half a tank of fuel. Blew out the lines, check valves and banjos back to the tank- nothing noted. Seems to be running fine now. Too wet to get back on the field but the problem was so noticeable that it could hardly move in anything but a very low gear or revved to the moon. Now it's like normal and can pull away nicely in sixth and grunts a little to pull away in 7th. I'm happy on one hand that it seems to be fixed but after many years of wrenching for a living, I know that the jagged cleaver of fate is hanging over you when you don't find a clear-cut answer to a problem. Thanks everyone for the advice. Hopefully I won't have to come back sobbing uncontrollably. ( : < )

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You may have solved your problem by blowing out that check valve under the tank.

At full load, there isn't as much excess fuel being returned to the tank and thus it is not building up backpressure on the pump.

At light load, too much fuel is trying to come through a partially plugged check valve, which causes backpressure to build in the pump and then it will run terrible.

If it is a defective check valve below the tank, remove it and take out the ball and spring, then install a standpipe onto the fitting to keep fuel from leaking out when splitting the tractor, or for any other reason in the future.  I believe a new check valve is over $300 dollars.  That pump does not need the check valve for the tractor to run perfectly.

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8 hours ago, Red Tech said:

You may have solved your problem by blowing out that check valve under the tank.

At full load, there isn't as much excess fuel being returned to the tank and thus it is not building up backpressure on the pump.

At light load, too much fuel is trying to come through a partially plugged check valve, which causes backpressure to build in the pump and then it will run terrible.

If it is a defective check valve below the tank, remove it and take out the ball and spring, then install a standpipe onto the fitting to keep fuel from leaking out when splitting the tractor, or for any other reason in the future.  I believe a new check valve is over $300 dollars.  That pump does not need the check valve for the tractor to run perfectly.

Sounds like good advice and I thank you for it. Once things quiet down, I may run the fuel low, remove and inspect that check valve to see what's what. How high do you recommend the standpipe come if I were to install one? Or could a fella just install a shut off valve for when working on the tractor?

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17 hours ago, 826BB said:

Now it's like normal and can pull away nicely in sixth and grunts a little to pull away in 7th.

6th? 7th? On an 826? The authorities may have to revoke your IH card for talking like that. ;) 

IH went out of business because they combined the speed and TA on one lever, and numbered the "gears" 1-8 on the 3088-3688. There was no other reason.

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There really isn’t enough room to neatly install a shutoff valve. 
 

I use a steel brake line and have it long enough to come within 1” or less of the inside top of the tank.  I posted the procedure on here a couple of years ago.  
 

 

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44 minutes ago, Red Tech said:

There really isn’t enough room to neatly install a shutoff valve. 
 

I use a steel brake line and have it long enough to come within 1” or less of the inside top of the tank.  I posted the procedure on here a couple of years ago.  
 

 

I'll look for it, thanks!

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50 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

6th? 7th? On an 826? The authorities may have to revoke your IH card for talking like that. ;) 

IH went out of business because they combined the speed and TA on one lever, and numbered the "gears" 1-8 on the 3088-3688. There was no other reason.

What do you call it? Second High? So much easier to say "6th" ... 😁 and everyone knows what you mean.

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1 minute ago, 826BB said:

What do you call it? Second High? So much easier to say "6th" ... 😁 and everyone knows what you mean.

Yup, "second high." Takes longer to do the math to figure out what "6th" means than to just say it. Ain't no 6 nowhere on that shifter plate :D 

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I have a TA but don't count it as a "gear."  Adding the TA gives me more speed ranges than I have fingers and toes, so I can't count it. 😉 Don't really know what  is customary nomenclature. I don't need my TA often but it was sure handy for keeping the revs up while I was having my problem.

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If unable to find a shop who can fix yours. Then you need a kit.

The Stanadyne replacement kit never worked right.  Stay away from it. No one is happy with it.

The Bosch VE kit is the way to go.

Rust in a diesel system is not supposed to be.

The Reverend Diesel Doctor again preaches!      Use Standayne Fuel Conditioner

It's that important.

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5 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

If unable to find a shop who can fix yours. Then you need a kit.

The Stanadyne replacement kit never worked right.  Stay away from it. No one is happy with it.

The Bosch VE kit is the way to go.

Rust in a diesel system is not supposed to be.

The Reverend Diesel Doctor again preaches!      Use Standayne Fuel Conditioner

It's that important.

What's the reason for the stanadyne kit not working correctly? 

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1 hour ago, Diesel Doctor said:

If unable to find a shop who can fix yours. Then you need a kit.

The Stanadyne replacement kit never worked right.  Stay away from it. No one is happy with it.

The Bosch VE kit is the way to go.

Rust in a diesel system is not supposed to be.

The Reverend Diesel Doctor again preaches!      Use Standayne Fuel Conditioner

It's that important.

The problem is solved now but it's good to know the VE kit is the way to go if I need a pump. I had heard negative comments on the  DB Stanadyne kit but don't remember much. A quick search didn't show any available.

Injection shops are fewer and farther between and some tend to be "independent" knowing they gotya by the short and curlies.

No rust in my system. Shone a light into my tank and all I could see was shiny metal, with just a few dark spots here and there. Banjo fittings were all bright inside. Tractor is old and tired but the D358 has never been apart. 8700 hours and counting!

I've used Stanadyne but no longer do. I use 2-stroke oil. Put enough in my farm tank just before I have it filled. Lots cheaper than Stanadyne and as effective for lubricity. Doesn't have the cetane booster but I don't need it. You might remember the Spicer lubricity study of the early 2000s https://www.dieselplace.com/threads/lubricity-additive-study-results.177728/ and based on that, I have been using it ever since. Not sure it's needed any more with quality fuel (if properly addivized, you never needed it but some blenders were neglecting to do it). 

Have an old school diesel pickup ('86 Ford w/IH 6.9L) that I bought almost new in '87. Used to use Performance Formula in it to eke out the last pony (installed a Banks Gen 1 turbo kit in '87 and it's still there) but now it's just a farm truck. Still has some suds, though. In light of the modern trucks, though, you just don't brag about having 200 hp at the rear wheels any more. There was a day, however!

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Go back and read the Spicer test. The 2-stroke out outperformed some of the dedicated additives... including Stanadyne Lubricity formula. Would be fun if someone redid that test with today's products and see what changes have occurred. Spicer had it done by SWRI, so it wasn't a fly by night test. For me, the 2-stroke is as much insurance as I think I need.

Your comment about water is intriguing. How do any of the diesel additives deal with water?  I didn't think that was possible with diesel fuel. With gassers, of course, you use alcohol/ethanol, but those are the kiss of death for a diesel.  I used Stanadyne for about 20 years ('87-07-ish) and it didn't stop the fuel tank in my Ford diesel truck from rusting from the inside out. Maybe there are new formulas that deal with water. I'll have to look into it because I had to replace the other tank in my truck a couple years back for the same reason. Little bit of water collects in that sump below the fuel inlet sock (should be a drain there) and in some number of years, it creates pinholes.

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22 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

What's the reason for the stanadyne kit not working correctly? 

A friend of mine ran a pump shop for years.

He tried a Stanadyne kit.

It ran, but not well.

Why, he could not put his finger on.

The only thing he knew was going to conferences and finding the same results from other techs.

The pump is not matched to the engine and it shows.

No owner would have accepted the Stanadyne as a replacement.

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Re Bosch VE replacement pump for VA pump,
Has anyone done this pump swap or know what all is involved?

I saw this link: https://goldfarbinc.com/products/0-460-406-056-1329-154-c1-remanufactured-bosch-injection-pump-fits-case-d358-ih-900-1000-engine

Also found this site and if you scroll through the first 10 pages there will be entries for the Case IH German D-155 thru D-358 engines.
https://docplayer.net/23916266-Fuel-injection-pump-product-model-list.html 

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