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building cost increases


pt756

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1 hour ago, mmi said:

The post on the UP making power for cali off of diesel,vs doing rr things,certainly NOT green. Coal Electricity has doubled here,and is still cheaper than NG. yet the plants need razed,converted to NG or green.

We get $.0011 for the NG stolen from the farm so it can be shipped/sold cheaper in euro than USA.Certainly makes green $$$.

To add to this above, the wind turbines are not able to make any money because they are subsidized so highly by the government. They don’t make enough electricity in their lifespan to pay for themselves. Once they are done, they go in a landfill because they are not renewable or recyclable. Solar is much the same way. The capacity isn’t there in current battery technology to accurately store the energy for much of a life span. Many of the solar projects have wording that when they are done the land owner assumes all the material to dispose of. All wind and solar energy has to be pushed through the lines by a pump of some sort that is run on.....you guessed it.....fossil fuels. Generated energy from a NG or Coal fired plant does not need that “pump”. It is naturally more flowable over distance. The fossil fuel power plants are forced to have clean emissions by the current governing bodies. It’s not anywhere near as terrible as the nightly news makes it sound. I guess people forgot about the winter of 2021 when much of the southern US froze including the wind turbines?  No sunshine = a poor showing from the solar industry.  

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1 hour ago, Sledgehammer said:

To add to this above, the wind turbines are not able to make any money because they are subsidized so highly by the government. They don’t make enough electricity in their lifespan to pay for themselves. Once they are done, they go in a landfill because they are not renewable or recyclable. Solar is much the same way. The capacity isn’t there in current battery technology to accurately store the energy for much of a life span. Many of the solar projects have wording that when they are done the land owner assumes all the material to dispose of. All wind and solar energy has to be pushed through the lines by a pump of some sort that is run on.....you guessed it.....fossil fuels. Generated energy from a NG or Coal fired plant does not need that “pump”. It is naturally more flowable over distance. The fossil fuel power plants are forced to have clean emissions by the current governing bodies. It’s not anywhere near as terrible as the nightly news makes it sound. I guess people forgot about the winter of 2021 when much of the southern US froze including the wind turbines?  No sunshine = a poor showing from the solar industry.  

Todd,

 I am not trying to dispute your claim that “Solar and Wind Generated energy requires a fossil fueled pump to push it through the electric grid that Natural Gas and Coal Fired Energy does not”, but A) I have never heard of this and B) what is this “pump”?

Thank you.

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7 minutes ago, 1586 Jeff said:

Todd,

 I am not trying to dispute your claim that “Solar and Wind Generated energy requires a fossil fueled pump to push it through the electric grid that Natural Gas and Coal Fired Energy does not”, but A) I have never heard of this and B) what is this “pump”?

Thank you.

  I am trying to make sense of this as well.  Natural gas needs to be pumped over great distances along with petroleum so I get that.  

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17 minutes ago, 1586 Jeff said:

Todd,

 I am not trying to dispute your claim that “Solar and Wind Generated energy requires a fossil fueled pump to push it through the electric grid that Natural Gas and Coal Fired Energy does not”, but A) I have never heard of this and B) what is this “pump”?

Thank you.

I’m sure it isn’t a traditional pump like you or I would think of (ie water, oil, gas, etc...) but the way I understand it, wind/solar are weaker by nature and not as flowable through transmission lines. Generated energy is more fluid and carries over larger distances with less effort. An engineer at work told me about it a long time ago before the subject became a hot topic.  He explained that most of not all renewable sources still required fossil fuels to make them viable an an energy source to the masses. Much like voltage drop through an extension cord over a distance only on a grand scale. I do not have a picture or name of the actual process equipment. I apologize if that doesn’t answer all your questions. The person who told me that is not around to ask any more. 
 

And for the record, I’m not opposed to alternative energy sources if they are economically able to be sustainable. I don’t think we are there yet with technology. The mining of the lithium in the batteries for the solar industry cause more pollution than the coal energy that the batteries are designed to help replace. I’m not saying we won’t get there but we aren’t there yet. The people pushing all the alternatives are also the ones who stand to make large amounts of money from its success. 

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1 hour ago, Sledgehammer said:

Many of the solar projects have wording that when they are done the land owner assumes all the material to dispose of.

You got that right. Even if they have a stipulation on cleanup. If another company buys the project from the original company there are terms that null the original contract so you can still be stuck with the cleanup bill. That's why in a lot of cases besides the cost of leasing being cheaper they only want to lease the ground instead of buy it outright. Because they want to stick you with the cleanup bill when done. 

Another little thing they don't tell you about is when the life span of these panels are done. Your land is now considered brownfield because they figure the coating eventually runs off the panels and into the ground. Your ground is no better than a abandoned industrial site in the eyes of the government and everyone else. Try selling that and see how much you get.

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1 hour ago, Art From Coleman said:

As I see it, ANY electric generating plant can only generate so much electric output on its own, when usage exceeds its capacity, brownouts or rolling blackouts are the result, however, when make up power is 'pumped' into that power network, courtesy of outside the network generating plants, the capacity is restored, and the electricity available returns to normal.

Of the 'green' energy sources, wind power will NEVER be able to produce its claimed capacity, since ALL the windmills in a windfarm are NEVER going to be turning (generating electricity) at the same time, solar farms would also be limited by partial cloud cover, hydro-electric will depend on the lake level to impart sufficient generating capacity (Watch the MEDIA squeal when Lake Mead becomes too low to provide sufficient hydrostatic head to power the turbines inside of Hoover Dam.)  ONLY coal, oil, and natural gas fired generating plants have what is close to an uninterruptable supply of fuel, but all are dependent on pipeline, rail, or barge for fuel delivery, leaving nuclear as pretty much self contained, (except for cooling water)

And once again we see the end game that the MEDIA and the radical environmentalists have by opposing nuclear, oil, natural gas, and hydroelectric power for the primary sources of generating capacity, as it deprives the 'little people' (peasants) of electricity, and DON'T think that they wouldn't do away with the REA if they could.

You are spot on Art. The amount of power needed on the grid is determined by the government. The power companies determine how much money per megawatt they need to run and make money. Power plants are given money for units that are not running as long as they are ready to run. They are on standby. This is for a plant with any power source.  If the powers that be determine that the peasants do not need power, they simply call for less electricity. 
 

Solar farms are measured in kilowatts many times from what I read.  Power plants are measured in megawatts. 1 megawatt = 1000 kilowatts. 

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20 hours ago, td9inidaho said:

We can all complain, but back in the day, home loans were 12 percent, that's if you had good credit, inflation has hit, and if any of us has a crop to sell, we will be rich as things are going. Funny how we, some of the farmers complain, myself included, but at the end of the year, we made "so" much money, we find ways to spend it, like $120,000 tractors or buy more land just so we don't give a dime to the government, that we complain so much about. Then again, if you don't pay, you can't complain.  Restoring multiple tractors also is a tax right off of the richer half of us, let's just clear the air here. We are all adults. 

Mark

land can not be depreciated not a tax dodge.

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Farming is a business.  Any business needs to make money to survive let alone prosper.  There are so many uncertainties.  Costs are skyrocketing.  A large pull back on grain or livestock commodities along with lending rate increases will devistate all but the most financially secure.  I sincerely hope everyone has a great year and can make it while they can.  There have been plenty of lean times for my local community, especially the dairy farms.

On the small farms here we have had a chicken house boom over 10 years or so.  Now the avian flu threatens them.  Some of which owe 1 to 2 million dollars.  Each person needs to determine their risk tolerance vs reward for their business.  I'm glad we don't have chicken houses right now.

For those of you considering a house addition you are welcome to pm me and I would share what we have in ours so far.  Let's just say it is a single store 900 sq ft with full basement and you used to be able to build a house for the same money.  It's insanity.  I just priced out a 1000 gallon underground propane tank at $7500 installed without the propane.  In 2016 we put one in at a rental for $5000 with the 900 gallons of propane included.

 

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5 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

I’m sure it isn’t a traditional pump like you or I would think of (ie water, oil, gas, etc...) but the way I understand it, wind/solar are weaker by nature and not as flowable through transmission lines. Generated energy is more fluid and carries over larger distances with less effort. An engineer at work told me about it a long time ago before the subject became a hot topic.  He explained that most of not all renewable sources still required fossil fuels to make them viable an an energy source to the masses. Much like voltage drop through an extension cord over a distance only on a grand scale. I do not have a picture or name of the actual process equipment. I apologize if that doesn’t answer all your questions. The person who told me that is not around to ask any more. 
 

And for the record, I’m not opposed to alternative energy sources if they are economically able to be sustainable. I don’t think we are there yet with technology. The mining of the lithium in the batteries for the solar industry cause more pollution than the coal energy that the batteries are designed to help replace. I’m not saying we won’t get there but we aren’t there yet. The people pushing all the alternatives are also the ones who stand to make large amounts of money from its success. 

Electrons are electrons.  Voltage is voltage.  You were told wrong.  Not sure what voltage either power plants or wind turbines generate at but all that needs to exist is a transformer to get it up to transmission line voltage which is anywhere from 69 kv up to I think 500 kv now on the really big lines.  
 

Voltage is your pressure so to speak and that is what pushes things long distances very efficiently.  And transformers and what steps up the voltage.  They run at something like 98% efficiency.  Power plants would be using the same technology to produce line voltage.

While I’m not a huge fan of solar farms, and relatively ambiguous on windmills, the electrons really don’t care what is creating the voltage to push them through the wires.

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I have been having a conversation with Todd about this.

MY GUESS is that the fellow that he got this from was referring to how Wind Generation and Solar Generation both need something like Internal Combustion Generation to overcome the Peak Loads that Wind Generation and Solar Generation cannot “Ramp Up” for.  Internal Combustion Generation is more easily started and stopped to meet power grid requirements.  Again this is just MY GUESS based upon what Todd and I talked about.

There are presumably (AND HOPEFULLY!!!!) more knowledgeable people out there than myself.

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17 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

Electrons are electrons.  Voltage is voltage.  You were told wrong.  Not sure what voltage either power plants or wind turbines generate at but all that needs to exist is a transformer to get it up to transmission line voltage which is anywhere from 69 kv up to I think 500 kv now on the really big lines.  
 

Voltage is your pressure so to speak and that is what pushes things long distances very efficiently.  And transformers and what steps up the voltage.  They run at something like 98% efficiency.  Power plants would be using the same technology to produce line voltage.

While I’m not a huge fan of solar farms, and relatively ambiguous on windmills, the electrons really don’t care what is creating the voltage to push them through the wires.

I won’t say I’ve never been given bad info. I will say that I have not intentionally shared bad info. I don’t claim to be an electrical engineer and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night 😊  After talking with Jeff some I think was I was told in layman’s terms what he is referencing above. My apologies, I was not trying to mislead anyone or take this topic way off course. 

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3 minutes ago, Sledgehammer said:

I won’t say I’ve never been given bad info. I will say that I have not intentionally shared bad info. I don’t claim to be an electrical engineer and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night 😊  After talking with Jeff some I think was I was told in layman’s terms what he is referencing above. My apologies, I was not trying to mislead anyone or take this topic way off course. 

 

10 minutes ago, 1586 Jeff said:

I have been having a conversation with Todd about this.

MY GUESS is that the fellow that he got this from was referring to how Wind Generation and Solar Generation both need something like Internal Combustion Generation to overcome the Peak Loads that Wind Generation and Solar Generation cannot “Ramp Up” for.  Internal Combustion Generation is more easily started and stopped to meet power grid requirements.  Again this is just MY GUESS based upon what Todd and I talked about.

There are presumably (AND HOPEFULLY!!!!) more knowledgeable people out there than myself.

We have 31 windmills nearby. I've been told how they have to have back up generation available at short notice and it takes much more energy total than just using coal or NG for all the generation needs in the beginning. Think this is another way of saying that same thing

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7 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

To add to this above, the wind turbines are not able to make any money because they are subsidized so highly by the government. They don’t make enough electricity in their lifespan to pay for themselves. Once they are done, they go in a landfill because they are not renewable or recyclable. Solar is much the same way. The capacity isn’t there in current battery technology to accurately store the energy for much of a life span. Many of the solar projects have wording that when they are done the land owner assumes all the material to dispose of. All wind and solar energy has to be pushed through the lines by a pump of some sort that is run on.....you guessed it.....fossil fuels. Generated energy from a NG or Coal fired plant does not need that “pump”. It is naturally more flowable over distance. The fossil fuel power plants are forced to have clean emissions by the current governing bodies. It’s not anywhere near as terrible as the nightly news makes it sound. I guess people forgot about the winter of 2021 when much of the southern US froze including the wind turbines?  No sunshine = a poor showing from the solar industry.  

I think a lot of factors are at play with this. As mudfly said electrons are electrons. The issue with wind/solar , wind particularly is that the voltage created is wild, depending on how fast they spin depends on how much is created. You have to regulate it, so there is a great deal of loss . Solar depends 100% on weather, which is fickle and of course it’s only good for roughly half the day so you are taking some erratic output, stabilizing it, transforming it up to VA that can be sent long distance the. Of course transforming it back down to a usable VA at every step you loose efficiency by using up some of what is being produced or simply throwing it away. 
as far as 100kva from a nuclear plant and 100kva from a wind farm there is no difference except the cost per KW 

 

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11 hours ago, 1586 Jeff said:

Does anybody see a point when building costs might drop?

In other words, is there merit on WAITING to build for those that have that option?

I think if you wait long enough you will see a drop, probably never to pre 2020 pricing, but what you are seeing is artificial inflation, and we have seen it before, every time oil goes up, everything else eventually follows suit. It isn’t going to be this year, but you watch, the bottom will drop out of this housing boom and oil will come back down and prices with it. 

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On 4/17/2022 at 7:38 PM, sandhiller said:

We bought materials to redo the corrals in all steel two years ago. 

Kinda mad that we haven't found the time to rebuild them yet but damn glad the iron is sitting here. 

 

I know a guy who will likely be passing thru that area with a whale of a post driver...

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3 hours ago, mader656 said:

I know a guy who will likely be passing thru that area with a whale of a post driver...

Could might put him to work🤠

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19 hours ago, 1586 Jeff said:

Does anybody see a point when building costs might drop?

In other words, is there merit on WAITING to build for those that have that option?

Yup. You can only print so many dollars based upon the dollars already printed. The government has been making money out of thin air for a long time. The last “we have to do this” package/spending spree, build back better bill, which by the way was parred DOWN from 4 trillion to 1.3(?) trillion- that spending alone pushed the inflation rate up 3 %

So, if ALL the previous spending pushed inflation from 1.2% give or take, up to 4%, give or take, what did this “ we have to do” bill really do for us, other than DOUBLE the inflation rate? 
The government figures for inflation,( I believe), doesn’t include fuel or food. The conservative figure is double the 7 or 8% that is published…

You CAN NOT absorb these costs. You CAN NOT take a dollar bill, cut it in half, and now have 2 dollars. This will end badly for anyone who isn’t prepared for it!

 

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1 hour ago, Ihfan4life said:

Yup. You can only print so many dollars based upon the dollars already printed. The government has been making money out of thin air for a long time. The last “we have to do this” package/spending spree, build back better bill, which by the way was parred DOWN from 4 trillion to 1.3(?) trillion- that spending alone pushed the inflation rate up 3 %

So, if ALL the previous spending pushed inflation from 1.2% give or take, up to 4%, give or take, what did this “ we have to do” bill really do for us, other than DOUBLE the inflation rate? 
The government figures for inflation,( I believe), doesn’t include fuel or food. The conservative figure is double the 7 or 8% that is published…

You CAN NOT absorb these costs. You CAN NOT take a dollar bill, cut it in half, and now have 2 dollars. This will end badly for anyone who isn’t prepared for it!

 

  If you are working down at Walmart or the local mom and pop auto garage you most likely are not prepared  for an inflation shock.  This describes most working Americans.  Even if you are prepared this will have the effect of shifting discretionary income which will effect the livelihood of many businesses.  This is going to go very bad for many people whether they are prepared or not.  We will see the effects of crime escalating including theft and domestic abuse in the short term.

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1 hour ago, Ihfan4life said:

 what did this “ we have to do” bill really do for us, other than DOUBLE the inflation rate? 

Smoke and mirrors to make the uninformed feel good. "See look what we did for you. No don't look over there, look at what we did for you."

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11 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

I won’t say I’ve never been given bad info. I will say that I have not intentionally shared bad info. I don’t claim to be an electrical engineer and I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night 😊  After talking with Jeff some I think was I was told in layman’s terms what he is referencing above. My apologies, I was not trying to mislead anyone or take this topic way off course. 

No worries, I re-read my post as well and it came off way harsher than I anticipated (sorry about that).  I was just trying to point out that the electrons don't know what is pushing them down the line.

All is good.

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58 minutes ago, Mudfly said:

No worries, I re-read my post as well and it came off way harsher than I anticipated (sorry about that).  I was just trying to point out that the electrons don't know what is pushing them down the line.

All is good.

No problem. 👍🏼

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3 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  If you are working down at Walmart or the local mom and pop auto garage you most likely are not prepared  for an inflation shock.  This describes most working Americans.  Even if you are prepared this will have the effect of shifting discretionary income which will effect the livelihood of many businesses.  This is going to go very bad for many people whether they are prepared or not.  We will see the effects of crime escalating including theft and domestic abuse in the short term.

Already seeing it with the huge uptick in catalytic convertor theft.

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2 hours ago, yellowrosefarm said:

Already seeing it with the huge uptick in catalytic convertor theft.

Over the last 2 years that uptick is almost viral, because my truck is 2 feet in the air I took my own out and ran a straight 4 inch so I didnt have to think about it, I put it away just incase the émission rules change here, that said, there are numerous ways to protect yourself from this problem, I don't know why  joe average doesn't go underneath and protect himself, and to answer my own query the thoughts usually are "it won't happen to me", the easiest one Ive seen is etch your sin number in and use hi temp neon color paint to help some assholle move along.

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4 minutes ago, Dasnake said:

Over the last 2 years that uptick is almost viral, because my truck is 2 feet in the air I took my own out and ran a straight 4 inch so I didnt have to think about it, I put it away just incase the émission rules change here, that said, there are numerous ways to protect yourself from this problem, I don't know why  joe average doesn't go underneath and protect himself, and to answer my own query the thoughts usually are "it won't happen to me", the easiest one Ive seen is etch your sin number in and use hi temp neon color paint to help some assholle move along.

 

Did not know cat theft was a thing but here it is!

 

967090211_carcatloc.webp.df3a0952d4bb017e7cc89f3a468d5340.webp

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29 minutes ago, sandhiller said:

 

Did not know cat theft was a thing but here it is!

 

967090211_carcatloc.webp.df3a0952d4bb017e7cc89f3a468d5340.webp

Thats one of a bunch of ways that cost a few hundred bucks and make it a stoppable crime, its pricing out to around a grand to get a new one reinstalled and labor cost on that, the one thing I don't know is computer damage effects from running with an enclosed exhaust.

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