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What would you do if.....


Cdfarabaugh

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....If you had to start out and buy "budget minded" equipment now? 

I keep thinking back to when I was in 8th grade and the neighbor took delivery if a brand new 7810 Deere and thought wow, sure must be nice.....and Dad saying "in 20 years we could afford it".  Same goes for boxcar magnum with a new 8920 bought down the road in '98.  

Flash forward to 20 years later.....nope, still not affordable (for a budget minded fellow at least)  Still would take 60k+ to get innthe seat of a nice one.  

Unfortunately our beloved 06/56/66 series are pinching us on the other end being "collectable" now.  10k used to buy a nice one, not so much anymore.  Still some deals out there but the nice ones that arent primped up for big $ at a 

SGB cab Deeres........forget it with those prices.  

More off brand stuff from green/red can still be found reasonable to a point.  

I know many say old stuff is better but eventually parts or the government are gonna squeeze you...  Are big $$$ purchases of good old equipment safe from a drop out of values?  

One has to wonder too if the used market ever will straighten out. With low production numbers and being able to maintain profits being attractive.....

Lots of questions, unfortunately i have few answers......

 

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Back in the early 70s, Dad was buying 5 to 10 year old tractors for less than $15/horsepower. In the 90s, I was paying $100/hp, and the tractors were 20 years old. 
Last year I bought a 30 year old, 2090 Case for $100/hp. I wouldn’t want to have to go to the field on a hot day with it yet. I have already put another $2000 into it and still don’t have the ac working. 

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1 hour ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

....If you had to start out and buy "budget minded" equipment now? 

 

 

Depends on acres or if you are hobby farming, part time farming, or full time.  Minimum paying job or 6 figure job. Plenty of variables 

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6 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Depends on acres or if you are hobby farming, part time farming, or full time.  Minimum paying job or 6 figure job. Plenty of variables 

This isnt about me BTW, jyst a theoretical discussion.  

Someone making 6 figures with an outside job is "farning with money" so not really a fair comparison there.  

Id say for example a younger fellow has an off farm job, and has some family acreage available to farm with the opportunity to get more locally and possibly make a go if it in a manner that its more than just a hobby shouod he play his cards right.  Someone financially stable but not flush with cash.  

Rarely does someone jump into full time unless "handed the keys" figuratively speaking.  

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See people going about it both ways. Some buy the best equipment that they can pay for and make it work somehow. The rest make the biggest payments that they can get financing for and keep flipping equipment and payments every few years without ever really completely owning anything 

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32 minutes ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

This isnt about me BTW, jyst a theoretical discussion.  

Someone making 6 figures with an outside job is "farning with money" so not really a fair comparison there.  

Id say for example a younger fellow has an off farm job, and has some family acreage available to farm with the opportunity to get more locally and possibly make a go if it in a manner that its more than just a hobby shouod he play his cards right.  Someone financially stable but not flush with cash.  

Rarely does someone jump into full time unless "handed the keys" figuratively speaking.

To answer your question I got started by trading monthly wages from the farm or corporation for machinery use and that’s still how it is today.  Some of that goes on and then I know some just lease the machinery from the “farm” when they farm their own acreage.  In some instances the kid and the farm or father have bought machinery together too. In your scenario, very rarely does the kid go off and buy his own complete line of machinery unless the acreage he added is substantial.  My cousin just took over their farm last year.  He leases the land from his father, his two uncles, and the corporation.  Only thing he added on his own dime was air seeder.  Leases the rest of the machinery.  This is all from what I have observed.
 

 

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2 hours ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

....If you had to start out and buy "budget minded" equipment now? 

I keep thinking back to when I was in 8th grade and the neighbor took delivery if a brand new 7810 Deere and thought wow, sure must be nice.....and Dad saying "in 20 years we could afford it".  Same goes for boxcar magnum with a new 8920 bought down the road in '98.  

Flash forward to 20 years later.....nope, still not affordable (for a budget minded fellow at least)  Still would take 60k+ to get innthe seat of a nice one.  

Unfortunately our beloved 06/56/66 series are pinching us on the other end being "collectable" now.  10k used to buy a nice one, not so much anymore.  Still some deals out there but the nice ones that arent primped up for big $ at a 

SGB cab Deeres........forget it with those prices.  

More off brand stuff from green/red can still be found reasonable to a point.  

I know many say old stuff is better but eventually parts or the government are gonna squeeze you...  Are big $$$ purchases of good old equipment safe from a drop out of values?  

One has to wonder too if the used market ever will straighten out. With low production numbers and being able to maintain profits being attractive.....

Lots of questions, unfortunately i have few answers......

 

  For a while now I have looked at pre 1990 equipment with an emphasis on IH or JD.  It is harder now to find value versus even 5 years ago and I do not expect it to get better any time soon.  I am definitely leaning towards more IH as the JD equipment for the most part has climbed out of my reach.  I have a list of desired items and work off of that when looking at equipment.  I would say that the greatest value in terms of tractors is in the IH 86 series.  If I was pressed to do something now I would not be afraid of White or Ford tractors depending on the model and individual condition.  As to running with the neighbors we seldom were able to do that which makes for a good lesson as not to pursue things that others can do but you cannot do yourself without a great chance of failure.  As to what you can do as opposed to the neighbor don't worry about it.  Unfortunately, most people are full of baloney including farmers.  It is nice to talk about how the kid bought dad and grandpa but I've always questioned how often that happens and being college educated I can usually figure out things in short order.  As full of nonsense as was one nearby large farmer he never seemed to lie when it came to the kid and deeding land over to avoid a catastrophe in case dad went into the nursing home for 20 years.  If you have some of the most productive land in the US then a lot of things are possible.  If you are running marginal ground as I am and good off farm jobs (good pay) are almost non-existent then you can afford few mistakes and have to budget equipment to get the most value but has ready parts and service support.  I run a JD 6620 combine and for a long time I could troubleshoot any problem that came my way but last fall I had two issues and was glad that help was one phone call and 20 minutes away the SAME day.  

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I would consider myself a part time farmer.  I don't see how anything is budget minded today.  I rent a grain drill, large vertical beater spreader and hire a few other things.  The stuff we have acquired started with income from a truck patch and went from there.  Slow and steady over many years.  Much of the stuff we have I would never be able to buy at today's prices.

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It’s difficult to give opinions because of how diverse agriculture in America is. In my area if someone wanted to farm a few hundred acres and wasn’t concerned with what the neighbors were doing, four row equipment here isn’t worth anything. A four row John Deere 7000 planter and something like a Deere 4400 diesel combine with both heads could be bought for nothing. Both have good parts support and would plant and combine corn or beans. Everything here is no till. Hire the spraying and all you need is a cheap tractor. An old Loadstar truck could still haul the grain if you wanted to. It wouldn’t take much of a tractor to pull that planter. Almost any 45hp tractor that has hydraulics would run it. I’m not saying it would be fun to start out, but in a few years you should be able to move up to something better if you’re serious about it. Way too many people get discouraged watching the local BTO. The last year my dad ran a four row corn head and 13 ft platform was the fall of 1987 and he combined over 1000 Acres with that set up. 

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I started ranching in the early 80's with a $5100 966 as my big tractor.

Stayed that way until two years ago I added a $5200 1486.

Although I would like a newer 150 horse FWA probably ain't gonna happen.

I'm ok with that.

I am getting my work done with what I have just fine.

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3 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

It’s difficult to give opinions because of how diverse agriculture in America is. In my area if someone wanted to farm a few hundred acres and wasn’t concerned with what the neighbors were doing, four row equipment here isn’t worth anything. A four row John Deere 7000 planter and something like a Deere 4400 diesel combine with both heads could be bought for nothing. Both have good parts support and would plant and combine corn or beans. Everything here is no till. Hire the spraying and all you need is a cheap tractor. An old Loadstar truck could still haul the grain if you wanted to. It wouldn’t take much of a tractor to pull that planter. Almost any 45hp tractor that has hydraulics would run it. I’m not saying it would be fun to start out, but in a few years you should be able to move up to something better if you’re serious about it. Way too many people get discouraged watching the local BTO. The last year my dad ran a four row corn head and 13 ft platform was the fall of 1987 and he combined over 1000 Acres with that set up. 

The big problem is perception. Either four row is too small or too worn out. Which a lot of it is junk but your right if you find the right equipment it can be done. I think my father ran four row till 1990ish. I don’t think it was quite 1000 acres but close with all the custom work. He got 6 weeks off his full time job in the fall so he had to do it all in that short time. He ran 6 rows until 8-10 years ago and was well over 1500 pushing 2000 acres with that but no more  off farm job. 

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Can farm alot with 15' planting equipment and a combine with a 20' head. Planter needs a driver who's willing to put in some hours pulling it. Can get alot done in a day. If no-till I'd look for a 7000 with a splitter or a 800-900 IH same setup and forget the grain drill. You'll save more seed and make more money not owning a drill to plant beans. Get a cab tractor of some kind. You'll be glad you did. Keep the combine up with preventive maintenance. Don't be cheap on combine maintenance. Have it inspected regularly by amount of use  by a dealership. Cheapest money you'll spend on harvest. Then she'll run all day, everyday, just like the guy across the fence running a current model machine. Buy what you can afford. Can always update down the road. Above all, don't worry about what others think of your equipment lineup. They don't pay your bills, you do. 

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The majority who is farming have worked through these situations. Some of the guys that have it "made in the shade" don't have what is perceived to from the outside. The grass is always greener on the other side is pretty universally true 

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12 minutes ago, bitty said:

The majority who is farming have worked through these situations. Some of the guys that have it "made in the shade" don't have what is perceived to from the outside. The grass is always greener on the other side is pretty universally true 

For sure there! 

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6 hours ago, 1256pickett said:

four row is too small

 

10 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I’m not saying it would be fun to start out,

I am not a Farmer so please excuse any blatant ignorance. It seems to me that you just gotta love it. Less rows per pass means more time in the field, if you don't love the feel of pulling power and the view of YOUR farm, the way you keep it???  Why are you there if it's money there are easier ways. The fun comes from the pride you can get from getting more out of a rock patch and a field found tractor than you ever thought you could. What ever you pull be proud of it. If spending time in the field is frustrating a new big tractor won't fix that, it will shorten the time there but in your extra time you may need to go get a off farm job to pay for the darn thing. Grandpa had fruit trees in his fence rows and a big truck garden' that made the view pleasant for him I guess, he sure smiled a lot.

 

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14 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

It’s difficult to give opinions because of how diverse agriculture in America is. In my area if someone wanted to farm a few hundred acres and wasn’t concerned with what the neighbors were doing, four row equipment here isn’t worth anything. A four row John Deere 7000 planter and something like a Deere 4400 diesel combine with both heads could be bought for nothing. Both have good parts support and would plant and combine corn or beans. Everything here is no till. Hire the spraying and all you need is a cheap tractor. An old Loadstar truck could still haul the grain if you wanted to. It wouldn’t take much of a tractor to pull that planter. Almost any 45hp tractor that has hydraulics would run it. I’m not saying it would be fun to start out, but in a few years you should be able to move up to something better if you’re serious about it. Way too many people get discouraged watching the local BTO. The last year my dad ran a four row corn head and 13 ft platform was the fall of 1987 and he combined over 1000 Acres with that set up. 

  At least around here 4 row equipment has a fair amount of value as there are a number of small farms.  But in general I agree with your point in finding an angle which works for you and is not extremely expensive.  For me it is utilizing older equipment that most others are no longer interested in using.  My newest farm tractor is a 1985 JD 4250.  I run gravity wagons but due to the crazy drivers running the road I need to find a Loadstar to minimize my road time.

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I'm a part time farmer I guess you could say. The way I see it NOTHING pencils out. Used, new dont matter. 

Here's an example.

I buy a $30k tractor to pull my $20k Baler. I pull my $15k discbine with my $15k tractor. I pull my $5k rake with my $10k tractor. Not to mention all the other things involved. 

So buying "decent" used equipment that's just decent enough to work like it should and I'm baling hay. For those that didn't add up that's $95k to head to the field.  At today's prices calves just say 600lbs at $1.60.   That equates to 99 calves it takes to pay for that equipment. It's all wore out and traded in way before it's ever penciled out. I cant imagine trying to buy "new"  

Or I could buy all my hay and have it delivered. Some years that's fine but heaven forbid you catch a bad year hay Is short and its $100 a bale IF you can find it. Or else you dump your cows at 50% of what they should be because everyone else already did it.

I suppose I started with nothing and built myself to what I am. If i didn't have a good job I'd be in trouble. If I didn't like what I do I'd probably be a whole lot better off financially. 🙄  

 

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2 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

I'm a part time farmer I guess you could say. The way I see it NOTHING pencils out. Used, new dont matter. 

Here's an example.

I buy a $30k tractor to pull my $20k Baler. I pull my $15k discbine with my $15k tractor. I pull my $5k rake with my $10k tractor. Not to mention all the other things involved. 

So buying "decent" used equipment that's just decent enough to work like it should and I'm baling hay. For those that didn't add up that's $95k to head to the field.  At today's prices calves just say 600lbs at $1.60.   That equates to 99 calves it takes to pay for that equipment. It's all wore out and traded in way before it's ever penciled out. I cant imagine trying to buy "new"  

Or I could buy all my hay and have it delivered. Some years that's fine but heaven forbid you catch a bad year hay Is short and its $100 a bale IF you can find it. Or else you dump your cows at 50% of what they should be because everyone else already did it.

I suppose I started with nothing and built myself to what I am. If i didn't have a good job I'd be in trouble. If I didn't like what I do I'd probably be a whole lot better off financially. 🙄  

 

Your equipment has resale value that offsets some of the purchase and maintenance costs. You are building equity by farming like that . If you were taking that same money and drinking beer all you would be left with is aluminum recycling to turn in. I realize that's not the best example or comparison but it's what I thought of 

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heres my example.

I have a good job,  but im pretty proud of the job our 9000$ 1680 does in the fall with our 883 and 1020 heads.

I like our 656 hydro,  i like to chiselplow with the 1206 with no cab.  still plant with an 800 cyclo.

When people look at the crops or talk about the hay or whatever...  we are all about the same.   we farm 250 acres.

If i farmed 1000 im not sure id really be looking to upgrade my equipment much to be honest.  I might put up another grain bin.

My view has totally changed on investing in equipment since i was in my 20's though.  Back then i wanted it all new 

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44 minutes ago, cjf711 said:

heres my example.

I have a good job,  but im pretty proud of the job our 9000$ 1680 does in the fall with our 883 and 1020 heads.

I like our 656 hydro,  i like to chiselplow with the 1206 with no cab.  still plant with an 800 cyclo.

When people look at the crops or talk about the hay or whatever...  we are all about the same.   we farm 250 acres.

If i farmed 1000 im not sure id really be looking to upgrade my equipment much to be honest.  I might put up another grain bin.

My view has totally changed on investing in equipment since i was in my 20's though.  Back then i wanted it all new 

  The same equipment would work for 1,000 acres if it had to.  The next best investment if not already made is to have a shop to do preventative maintenance while the snow is flying.  

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4 hours ago, just Dave said:

 

I am not a Farmer so please excuse any blatant ignorance. It seems to me that you just gotta love it. Less rows per pass means more time in the field, if you don't love the feel of pulling power and the view of YOUR farm, the way you keep it???  Why are you there if it's money there are easier ways. The fun comes from the pride you can get from getting more out of a rock patch and a field found tractor than you ever thought you could. What ever you pull be proud of it. If spending time in the field is frustrating a new big tractor won't fix that, it will shorten the time there but in your extra time you may need to go get a off farm job to pay for the darn thing. Grandpa had fruit trees in his fence rows and a big truck garden' that made the view pleasant for him I guess, he sure smiled a lot.

 

I think you have a fine understanding of the situation. 

It's not always about the money. 

For me, it's owning my way of life and that you can't put a price on. 

1 hour ago, bitty said:

Your equipment has resale value that offsets some of the purchase and maintenance costs. You are building equity by farming like that . If you were taking that same money and drinking beer all you would be left with is aluminum recycling to turn in. I realize that's not the best example or comparison but it's what I thought of 

And it is what I tell my wife when that shiny rusty new old IH is just bringing too little on auction. 

Building equity babe!😄

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4 hours ago, sandhiller said:

I think you have a fine understanding of the situation. 

It's not always about the money. 

For me, it's owning my way of life and that you can't put a price on. 

And it is what I tell my wife when that shiny rusty new old IH is just bringing too little on auction. 

Building equity babe!😄

My wife doesn't always buy it.  She just thinks I want to spend money.  I try to explain that we have done alright so far.😁

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16 minutes ago, hobbyfarm said:

My wife doesn't always buy it.  She just thinks I want to spend money.  I try to explain that we have done alright so far.😁

Lol. I was browsing a couple auction sales on my phone last night. My wife seen tractors over my shoulder. It was a direct “You’re not buying another tractor!”. I guess we’ll see what happens 🤷‍♂️

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29 minutes ago, hobbyfarm said:

My wife doesn't always buy it.  She just thinks I want to spend money.  I try to explain that we have done alright so far.😁

 

10 minutes ago, midnightman said:

Lol. I was browsing a couple auction sales on my phone last night. My wife seen tractors over my shoulder. It was a direct “You’re not buying another tractor!”. I guess we’ll see what happens 🤷‍♂️

I always leave an excel file of my ranch ledger open on the bottom of the screen so I can click on it quick when I see her walk into the room😅

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