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TD9B DROTT Shifting Problems


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Hi Gents, looking for some help with my crawler. I bought a TD9B that I couldn't pass up but it doesn't shift (manual). The Clutch seems really sloppy. I tried to turn the plate like the manual says (clock wise facing the engine I assume) and greased all the fitting but didn't seem to help. Transmission was showing no oil so I put in just under 5 gallons which caused water to piss out the bottom, not sure why. After I started the engine, the transmission doesn't always shift into gear well and grinds when I pull the clutch back. I only had one gear that kind of moved the crawler but still grinded the gears (I am guessing) and never fully engaged the clutch. I have gone though the service manual and seems like it could be any and everything in there. Looks like I can at least get a pressure plate and flex plate but will have to do my homework for everything else. Looking for some wisdom if I should look at rebuilding both transmission and clutch or can the clutch cause all these problems. Thank you in advance.

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So do I just keep tapping it with a hammer clockwise, I only moved it 3 notches (is that a lot),  manual says 40- 45lbs at the handle and 71-79 "test load of the Clutch return spring?? Brake clutch facing... the flex plate disc with the round looking brake pads? Sorry lots of questions. 

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JW,  40-45 lbs. pull is correct, even with less the tractor should work. The brake clutch facing Hector is talking about #11, is riveted to engine clutch coupling #10, when disengaging the engine clutch the lining presses against the throw out bearing carrier #18, that will stop the transmission gears so you can shift without grinding the gears. When disengaging the clutch you push forward, push hard to stop the gears so you can shift. If your lining is gone then make sure you come to a complete stop before shifting. If you have water in the transmission drain it and keep the oil at the correct level. With low oil I had the transmission jump out of third gear when pulling (Ag TD9B), bringing the oil up to where it should be stopped that problem, you may want to pull the top cover off to inspect the gears.

IH TD9B engine clutch.jpg

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"Come to a complete stop", do you mean pull both steering clutches? If that works, would that suggest that it might be the Brake clutch facing?  Is that part available? Might be hope that I don't have to rebuild the clutch and transmission....??? Thank you for clarifying.

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Back up and get everybody on the same page here, as I know nothing of this tractor. You started out talking clutch as if direct drive model. Now by your last comment of stopping by using steering clutches is it a power shift model?

 

Direct drive machines are shifted after you have stopped moving. If direct drive with a working clutch brake there should be no grinding of gears as you move gear shift lever. If It doesn't slide all the way in gear you may need to engage clutch just a bit to align gears and push the gear shift lever to seat the gear teeth. But again no grinding of gears.

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Yes it is a manual transmission not a power shift. I can put the shifter into gear clutch out, I cannot pull the clutch back in without grinding and in that sense it will not go into gear. I can push/pull the clutch in and out with the transmission out of gear.  Does that make better sense? I does have a winch which I know nothing about, other then it has three levers. No tag, nothing says Carco, could that cause an issue? Waiting on some manual from ebay. I misunderstood the brake part, nothing can be turning if it first doesn't come from the engine... too many or too few gears turning in my head.

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First clutch, forward is off disengaged, when you pull it back it should take some 60 lbs to pull it back until it SNAPS into an engaged position.  Do you have that snap?

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sounds like road hard and put away wet every time,with no oil in trans.

in a safe area warm the engine, shut off ,get every one/thing out of the way, place gear in 1 , main clutch forward,(not winch).

restart, fuel to 1/3, pull clutch and hold hard, touching nothing else .....release or shut down as required.

report back as to bent shifter or missing teeth and bearings etc

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JW, does it grind in all gears? With the engine clutch cover off what is the shaft doing when you put it into gear with the clutch engaged? It almost sounds like you are having transmission problems. If it all looks good in the clutch compartment, then pull the transmission gear housing cover to see what's going on in the transmission, you may have bent shifting forks that do not engage the gears properly.  The gear drive transmissions are fairly easy to work on, all the gears come out from the front (clutch compartment) If all the gears are good, and nothing is moving up and down as in bad bearings then you may have a ring and pinion problem. Does the tractor move in any of the gears? 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiXlMTSq4r3AhXGZs0KHej_BPYQFnoECAUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tractorparts.com%2FPDFs%2FTD9B%20150%20TD9B%20Loader%20SVC.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1xlXkUnxSOPP7t56Z2KxiH

You can download the service manual here.

IH TD9-B transmission.jpg

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Dave, no there is no snap, just increased resistance with the last 3 inches of pull. Does anyone know how the pto works, could that be engaged in anyway and could the transmission and pto both be trying to go in at the same time?

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When you adjusted your cluch you need  to take 1 to 2 notch and try to angaged the cluch lever and if she have no snap you take 2 more notchs and when you adjusted the cluch if you give to much adjustement she not angaged you need to desajusted and reajusted but if all the gears gring when you angaged the transmission it is the brake facing is't working correct

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Like Hector says turn clutch back CCW.  At around 60 lbs of pull on handle it will snap over a cam point and be engaged. CCW until you have this..    After that the next thing to check (as mentioned above) is the coupling in the clutch compartment that ties it to the transmission. If you don't have books yet you can see them on line free at General gear. They also sell parts for the old crawler.  Good luck

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CCW! Thank you, that would be something you might want to put in a tech manual. I was going CW with no difference.  Thank you everyone that chimed in. I will work on it and get back with an update. Still know nothing about this winch.275601402_4165611226874899_2535488558019134423_n.thumb.jpg.2d0ba2c1b0da223376c2bad07d6dbc69.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Update:

So I had it moved by a tilt bed landall.... I backed off the clutch plate CClockwise. I would shift into gear without grinding but no movement. Defiantly not getting 60lbs, just feels sloppy (pressure plate collapse)?. When the tilt bed was tipped I put it in reverse and it did move a little. 

Is it time for a rebuild? what do I need to change? Pressure plate and clutch? Anything else I should change while I am in there? Who has those parts? Thank you for all the comments! Also anyone have any top rollers?

 

 

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Can you now go back CW so you feel the over center snap with the proper effort, shouldn't take much more adjustment if your close now? What does it look like in there when you have cover off?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/11/2022 at 8:30 AM, louie figone said:

JW, does it grind in all gears? With the engine clutch cover off what is the shaft doing when you put it into gear with the clutch engaged? It almost sounds like you are having transmission problems. If it all looks good in the clutch compartment, then pull the transmission gear housing cover to see what's going on in the transmission, you may have bent shifting forks that do not engage the gears properly.  The gear drive transmissions are fairly easy to work on, all the gears come out from the front (clutch compartment) If all the gears are good, and nothing is moving up and down as in bad bearings then you may have a ring and pinion problem. Does the tractor move in any of the gears? 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiXlMTSq4r3AhXGZs0KHej_BPYQFnoECAUQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tractorparts.com%2FPDFs%2FTD9B%20150%20TD9B%20Loader%20SVC.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1xlXkUnxSOPP7t56Z2KxiH

You can download the service manual here.

IH TD9-B transmission.jpg

...as with Louie...you could well have a crown wheel   and pinion  issue....  After a couple of teeth disappear into the bowels of the 'back end' ..that is the noise you hear....

The British  built tractors of that size , were good at requiring  new crown wheel   and pinion sets.......Winch machines can put huge loading on those gears....all gears for that matter....

Mike

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