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6.5 diesel quit today


vtfireman85
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Did it the other day, i was blaming a sloppy shifter jumping out of gear and it recovered immediately. Today I was rolling down the road about 50 and she just shut off. Wasn’t throwing codes before. Cranks over and the glow plugs cycle . When i jump the fuel pump relay as though to bleed it i can hear the lift pump running. 
any suggestions as to where to start?

 

@dale560

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Yes the injector pump driver is main culprit on the post mechanical engines. Jump the fuse for the lift pump it was usually under black cover on right side of fire wall. Make sure it is pumping fuel through bleed fitting on filter. They weren’t known for breaking timing gears or anything. I would try and procure a pump driver and try it. Sometimes the exhaust system plugs but that is a gradual long term problem.

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Sounds like a driver to me. Can't remember did it have the relocate when you bought it? We always carry a spare one in the glove box. Have has to use it once even with the pmd relocate

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15 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

By jumping the pump will it start with the relay removed? Is that relay only for the lift pump? 

That will just be the lift pump. Is there any codes showing up? We had a 95 here that wouldn't start and the pump shop asked if there was any codes and there was a couple come up. Gave him them, and he said one of them tells him the injection pump is shot. Apparently there is like a shut off on the pump itself that fails or stops the fuel when the pump fails? I don't exactly remember the details. I would have to look in my notes and see what exactly it was. Maybe someone here knows more about that than I do. Anyway we had to get a new injection pump for that one and away it went

But I would definitely try the driver first. That is not uncommon and easy to check

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17 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

By jumping the pump will it start with the relay removed? Is that relay only for the lift pump? 

It just tells you the lift pump is working. Been a long time but you should be able to just hold fuse up against the power terminal and lift pump will run. The older pickups that were mechanical pump ( 88 to 93s) yet ran the lift pump through oil pressure switch. So that was a headache sometimes. I can’t remember how the newer ones controlled the lift pump

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My experience, and your description says the PMD as well. Short period of poor performance, stumbling etc. A few dies, restarts.... at this point you make sure your AAA card is paid up or put a PMD in.

By this time, I'm sure you already have a remote mounted driver installed, I haven't seen a 6.5 that didn't have one in the last 10+ yrs. Make sure it's mounted to a good heat sink with plenty of the thermal paste under it.

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6 hours ago, dale560 said:

It just tells you the lift pump is working. Been a long time but you should be able to just hold fuse up against the power terminal and lift pump will run. The older pickups that were mechanical pump ( 88 to 93s) yet ran the lift pump through oil pressure switch. So that was a headache sometimes. I can’t remember how the newer ones controlled the lift pump

You know I think 94 and up might be the same. If I recall right the pump doesn't run till you start cranking. Been a while since I had to fiddle around with ours. I could be wrong though too

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56 minutes ago, db1486 said:

You know I think 94 and up might be the same. If I recall right the pump doesn't run till you start cranking. Been a while since I had to fiddle around with ours. I could be wrong though too

The reason I point it out. The 93 and earlier were bad about that sender going bad. The pump wouldn’t run then . But the roosamaster ( stanadyne pump) would pull its own fuel if there were no leaks.

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3 minutes ago, dale560 said:

The reason I point it out. The 93 and earlier were bad about that sender going bad. The pump wouldn’t run then . But the roosamaster ( stanadyne pump) would pull its own fuel if there were no leaks.

When i first got it it had a bad lift pump, ran but didn’t pump. Would run until the tank dropped below halfish. 

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Accurate diesel has some EXCELLENT diagnostic procedures, i printed out their 7 page procedure and confirmed a failed PMD, not surprising, but I like diagnosing as opposed to just trying new parts. I ordered from them and they were extremely helpful. $200.00 shipped. And made in USA. 
https://www.accuratediesel.com/nostart.html

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New PMD came today, i put it in with high anticipation, no dice. Is it likely the truck needs bleeding? Thinking about it it makes some sense it could get air bound a bit. The lift pump runs for a period of time after the key is shut off after cranking. I don’t know that i have noticed that before, but I haven’t paid much attention either. 
any advice? 

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Don't over crank and ruin the starter!  I my long lifetime of repairing crap, I have found it to be extremely rare when a TS guide accurately predicted an actual failing part.  For me the best they do is they generally point a tech in the correct direction. I was sitting beside the public road on the tractor waiting for our tire man to come out, A kid about 6 yo came by and told me not to drive because I had lost all the air out of the big tire.  That Kid will be a President one day!

Good luck with your project.

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I have a 94. It would need bleeding at the injectors when it died. I used to just do the drivers side do to access and I was usually on the side of the road. The oil pressure switch failed more than once but if your pump is running that may be ok. Loosen lines and turn over with starter. Two people would be handy. I usually got my fire extinguisher out ahead of time. I never needed it but was risky with a hot engine. Mine is sitting in yard do to fail to start and a reluctance to spend $$$ on it. Hope things work out better for you.

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53 minutes ago, oleman said:

Don't over crank and ruin the starter!  I my long lifetime of repairing crap, I have found it to be extremely rare when a TS guide accurately predicted an actual failing part.  For me the best they do is they generally point a tech in the correct direction. I was sitting beside the public road on the tractor waiting for our tire man to come out, A kid about 6 yo came by and told me not to drive because I had lost all the air out of the big tire.  That Kid will be a President one day!

Good luck with your project.

This was a fairly comprehensive and specialized guide to actually diagnosing each component of the fuel system, and my results were quite conclusive. I will not say I cannot be wrong, but I suspect my findings were accurate. 
We shall see once I have bled the system. 

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Here are some pics to explain a little trouble shooting. The fuel lift pump fuse is shown. Pull it out of protective holder. Touch backside to the hot power stud nearby. Before doing that open bleeder screw on fuel filter you should have a clean fuel flow. If it does I would pull oil fill tube and grommet out of front spin motor and make sure gear , pump turn. Then it would be injector pump related. 

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Here are pics of the 92 ,93 manual control pump and the electric control on 94 later. Now don’t take this as set in stone. Certain gross vehicle weights used pumps at different time periods. But the electric pump still has a head and rotor plus on ,off controls. I have seen everything over the years that could go wrong with those early db2 manual control. Head drive failure. On off solenoid failure and what not. You need to make sure you have good clean fuel to inj pump first. Then make sure pump is turning. I would then pull a injector line loose see if it is injecting fuel. A process of elimination. Some of the light duty 3/4 tons had catalytic converters and they would plug so it is a process of elimination.could even be timing gear problem.  But make sure lift pump is working first. 

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43 minutes ago, dale560 said:

Also I would make sure crankshaft sensor is good.

When i performed the diagnostic procedure I found DC from the computer to the PMD, but found no AC output at the PMD . Upon changing it I found significant corrosion on the heat sink between the PMD and the sink. I did previously check to see that the lift pump was actually pumping to the filter and out the water drain. 
i kind of assume that the running out (inj pump not pumping suddenly)  would leave air bubbles in the injector lines? Battery was weak a bit so i put it on the charger and I won’t get back there until Sunday. 

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Ok. So. Assuming it needed bleeding i let it sit until I could get back to it. Meanwhile dad jumped in on Saturday and it fired right up and ran great. Been driving it all week no issues, starts well and runs as good as ever. Tonight on the way home it just quit. I checked what I could with the basic tools i had, cleaned up some grounds, ran a couple new ones just to be sure, checked the wires on the jump harness for the PMD, had fuel from the lift pump and through thr water drain. No vacuum in the tank either. Cracked all the injections I could get to (5 of em) little bit of wet on #3 but no squirting anywhere. Dry on the other 4. I checked to see the pump was being driven by the timing gear, it was. 

My mechanic happened along on his way home and looked things over, said he wasn’t big on 6.5 but did have a known good used PMD he had saved. Snapped it on and it started up instantly with 5 loose injectors. I took the time to actually mount it and it ran fine all the way home. 
now, the question is, did i get a bad one ( remember it wouldn’t start when first installed either) ? Or do i have something killing them? 
the new used one is a standadyne  the original one and the new new one was D-tech.

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New parts just ain't what they used to be, completely possible you got a bad one. That said, I'd still make sure your power wires will support adequate amperage as well as voltage, your grounds to the PMD/chassis are solid, and a possibly a big one - engine block to chassis ground is in good shape. From what I recall, the big killer of those PMD is heat, thus the remote mount kits, so make sure there isn't some newfound heat source getting to it.

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