Anyone know what this thing is on my 77 f250?

[Sledgehammer]

24 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

Well im not sure you could be right. The 400 was same style block and shared parts with the 351m I'm pretty sure. I never got into those or the 460 too much.

Sledge I bought a 78 f150 from a guy at work that had a reman 351m in it. Once I cleaned the carb and patched the gas tank that thing would run! Might have been the only good one I was ever around but that one impressed me.

I bought a 79’ F250 4x4 in 2008 that had 15K original miles on it (351M).  I loved the truck but it had zero power for anything. 4.10’s. It was full time 4x4 with the NP203 t-case. I had a NP205 from another 79’ and swapped it out to part time 4x4 with factory parts and Warn Premium hubs. Drivetrain was perfect other than the engine. Was going to put a 460 in it that I had with a 4spd since they never built that factory combo in a 78-79 but never did. Kid came along with $$ a few years later and left with the 460. A couple years after that a guy hounded me for the truck and I put a price on it. Away it went.....

[dale560]

Not a ford guy but here is a list of the family’s of engines and a picture of a Cleveland and Windsor block and their differences also explains the 351m

[td9inidaho]

All I know is local mechanics said I couldn't put a 429 in a 79 bronco that had a 400, 4speed, 205 transfer. Needless to say , at 19 years of age it was not that difficult, and I thought the 400 had power. OMG, that 429 tore more things apart than I would like to say. Stripped inner axels was first, Detroit locker fixed that,then came the drive line, had special made driveline made, then bent the rear 9 inch rear axle,. Had it gusseted, and steel plates welded to reinforce it. Then came the next week link, the clutch. Finally went to a 4 puck bronze plated clutch, 3,000 lb pressure plate, fixed things untill I finally threw the pinion out across a field 50 yards. Changed the drop in to a high strength steel nodular and and don't drive it much more than a parade queen. Maybe the 44 Inch tires didn't help. Then again, I did regear it to 5:33s

Bottom line is the 429/460 motors are hard to kill, and even though emissions choked them out , they can be great runners 

[Ian Beale]

4 hours ago, dale560 said:

Not a ford guy but here is a list of the family’s of engines and a picture of a Cleveland and Windsor block and their differences also explains the 351m

I just talked to a fellow follower of Ford V8s in Oz and we both remember that the base V8 engines here of that era were Windsors and that Clevelands were in Falcon GTs and maybe some other top end ones.  And likely options at extra cost in others.

At the earlier end we still have Dad's last of the flat head 1954 2 ton truck .

[ky966boy]

10 hours ago, stronger800 said:

We had a ‘78 302 that would eat my ‘78 400m alive.  302 got 8 mpg, 400 got 6.6 mpg.   I suspect the lifts and 33-35” tires didn’t help, but ehh, gas was cheap.   
The ‘88 460 efi though…..oh my….that thing was an animal. 4:10’s, she’d get -2-  mpg if you plowed snow all day. About 3x the power of the 400.  I miss them 

Had a 88 with the 460 it would blow the doors off a 454 hauling cattle.

[stronger800]

I was in hi school…buddys dad had new 454.   Blew short coolant hose off the 460 after a ball game one night.  Don’t tell my father. 
400m couldn’t touch that 454. But it wasn’t even close to the 460.  
454 2wd “ss” or whatever those 2wd hot rods were called…..they weren’t much closer.  And the 460 was 4wd.   We put heads and pistons in it Years later. Part number on the pistons didn’t match up with parts on dealers computer. They told me they were limited built “h.o.” pistons only used in early ‘88. Parts number changed in 89.  We put 89 pistons in it with reman heads….it lost a fair amount of power. 

[Troll]

I've had both 460 engine(s) in F-350 chassis, and 454 engines in C, and K 3500 series. All good engines, all liked their fuel in copious amounts. In the 70's, the 454 was a stronger performer. Once fuel injection came about in 1986, the 460 engine by far was stronger and better running.

I liked the old "FE" series engines myself. Not a 454, nor 460 would run with a 428 I had in an F-250 on any account. I had a 429 in another F-250 and it was very close to the 428 in performance too but fell off at higher rpm's.     

[Frank H]

We always called the 351M  and 400M the smog monsters. 8mpg and no horsepower. Worthless unless you build one, then why bother when you could've built a better engine.

[hardtail]

13 hours ago, Sledgehammer said:

Was always told that the 4 barrel 351 Cleveland was almost all together different than a 2 barrel version for power and even on a lot of parts. 

They came as 2V or 4V which if I recall was different heads was the main difference and the 2V didn't hold much performance potential, the 4V did and with other mods could have excellent potential, can't remember if the Boss 302 used heads off a 4V or if they would even fit, both had similar design huge valves

For a pickup the 428/9/60 would have more torque and be a better choice

[just Dave]

22 hours ago, Brockpend said:

 

Nice dash for the age, did a lot of growing up in a cab like this. I can even smell it from here( not an insult) I hope you get a bunch of use out of it.

[DT Fan]

The big problem with the 351M/400 was the emissions crap they were trying with them. Had a '78 T-bird with 400 liked the car pretty well but gutless. One thing they did, and I think this was huge, was retard the cam a ridicules amount. I'm thinking it was 21 degrees. Have thought many times since I sold that bird that I should have put in a heads up chain and gears.

[Lars (midessa)]

Got a 460/E4OD, in our ‘95 motorhome. F-53 chassis TBI. Gets a whopping 5mpg on a good day, if you pretend there is an egg on the accelerator.

[iowaboy1965]

3 hours ago, stronger800 said:

We put 89 pistons in it with reman heads….it lost a fair amount of power. 

Probaly lower compresion ratio pistons than what you took out.

[iowaboy1965]

3 hours ago, hardtail said:

Boss 302 used heads off a 4V or if they would even fit, both had similar design huge valves

I was thinking the boss 302 used the cleavland 4bl heads for better flow at high rpms.

[iowaboy1965]

Thanks Dale for the engine family breakdown. My buddies and I were more into Windsor and the fe style engines so I never dug in too deep to some of those other families. 

The shiek was right about a 351 m being 400 parts mostly. 

[Brockpend]

1 hour ago, just Dave said:

Nice dash for the age, did a lot of growing up in a cab like this. I can even smell it from here( not an insult) I hope you get a bunch of use out of it.

Thanks, I wish the rest of the truck was as nice as the inside 

[Art From Coleman]

8 minutes ago, Brockpend said:

did a lot of growing up in a cab like this.

I "took the Fifth", when my Dad asked about the footprints on the roof liner in his/later mine, 1964 F-100.

[superih]

A 400M is a runner with a cam swap, big carb, and MSD

[DT Fan]

45 minutes ago, iowaboy1965 said:

I was thinking the boss 302 used the cleavland 4bl heads for better flow at high rpms.

That is correct. You can use Cleveland heads on a Windsor block but have to drill some water passages to make them work.

[B.B.]

55 minutes ago, DT Fan said:

That is correct. You can use Cleveland heads on a Windsor block but have to drill some water passages to make them work.

And then call it a clever...

 

 

 

[stronger800]

1 hour ago, Art From Coleman said:

I "took the Fifth", when my Dad asked about the footprints on the roof liner in his/later mine, 1964 F-100.

I had one in the body shop years ago, oldtimer body guy in there told me that they were almost done buffing it and that it looked so nice they even spiffed up the inside and “wiped the foot prints off the headliner”.   I hadn’t heard that in a long time. Thanks 

[B.B.]

2 hours ago, Art From Coleman said:

I "took the Fifth", when my Dad asked about the footprints on the roof liner in his/later mine, 1964 F-100.

Can you explain this to me?  

 

 

LOL

[iowaboy1965]

46 minutes ago, B.B. said:

And then call it a clever...

 

 

 

Cleavor , fixed it for ya! 😁

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

I have 3 351m engines in my stable.  All have been smog deleted, 2 have performer 400 intakes and Holley carbs.  1 has a cam.  They all make decent power.  I have a 400 in the 3/4 ton extended cab.  It has moxie! I grew up making Fords run better.   Just picked up a 79 step side short box for the herd.  Gonna put a 5.0 out of a 92 f150 into it.

Gave up on running headers on pickups.   Not enough advantage for the hassle of the heat taking out starters!

[Sledgehammer]

2 hours ago, DT Fan said:

That is correct. You can use Cleveland heads on a Windsor block but have to drill some water passages to make them work.

 

1 hour ago, B.B. said:

And then call it a clever...

 

 

 

I know a guy around here that has done that. They run pretty good. I want to think he had a roundy round car that he put one in. (That’s redneck for short circle track racer)