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86 series poor reputation?


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1 minute ago, B.B. said:

I thought we all hoarded tractors?  

 

 

Are we not supposed to hoard tractors?

 

 

If we're not supposed to hoard tractors then I'm in trouble.....

You are correct sir! We Are supposed to hoard tractors!

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A neighbor a few years ago had the clutch out of one of his 4430's and borrowed my 1066 to help haul grain to town in the fall.  One day during harvest his hired man told me he never had to downshift going up a hill with 550 bushels of corn like the 4430. But the 1066 did like to spin the tires! 

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On 2/19/2022 at 12:47 PM, Big Bud guy said:

Full Powershift transmission, closed center hydraulics, planetary finals, better steering system.  None of that mattered in the 60s but would later on.  For the record I have a 1256 and a 5010 and 20.  

I hear so much B/S about JD powershift. I'd rather have an IH tractor with a T/A or Hydro than the jerkomatic powershift. I've run a lot of JD tractors and was never impressed with them and wondered why they had such a great reputation. Superior hydraulics is a joke. JD never had a draft system worth a poot. Yes maybe they steered easier, but if you were using a front end loader on a gear drive JD and using the clutch a lot you could run out of hydraulics. This happened on certain models as least as late as the 3155. The charge pump couldn't keep up with the main pump.

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6 minutes ago, Eason said:

I hear so much B/S about JD powershift. I'd rather have an IH tractor with a T/A or Hydro than the jerkomatic powershift. I've run a lot of JD tractors and was never impressed with them and wondered why they had such a great reputation. Superior hydraulics is a joke. JD never had a draft system worth a poot. Yes maybe they steered easier, but if you were using a front end loader on a gear drive JD and using the clutch a lot you could run out of hydraulics. This happened on certain models as least as late as the 3155. The charge pump couldn't keep up with the main pump.

I think it is funny how the 8 speed is often said as so much better than anything IH offered at the time but I don't know a single JD guy nearby me that would ever own a 8 speed PS. I have had 3 over the years and these guys say how much they hate them. I didn't mind the transmission for what we had them for but the rest of the JD had it's drawbacks for sure

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37 minutes ago, Eason said:

I hear so much B/S about JD powershift. I'd rather have an IH tractor with a T/A or Hydro than the jerkomatic powershift. I've run a lot of JD tractors and was never impressed with them and wondered why they had such a great reputation. Superior hydraulics is a joke. JD never had a draft system worth a poot. Yes maybe they steered easier, but if you were using a front end loader on a gear drive JD and using the clutch a lot you could run out of hydraulics. This happened on certain models as least as late as the 3155. The charge pump couldn't keep up with the main pump.

I know you are just defending IH, but I don’t think those criticisms of Deere are valid. I have spent a lot of time in an 8 speed power shift and sometimes being able to shift under full load 3 times is a good deal. An 8 speed does not have enough gears by today’s standards, but they are not useless. No Waterloo built Deere tractor that I know of after a 4020 has the problem you are describing with running out of hydraulics when using the clutch. I’m not familiar with a 3155 as that is not an American built tractor. Closed center hydraulics and planetary final drives has proven to be the better choice in large row crop tractors. 

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42 minutes ago, Eason said:

I hear so much B/S about JD powershift. I'd rather have an IH tractor with a T/A or Hydro than the jerkomatic powershift. I've run a lot of JD tractors and was never impressed with them and wondered why they had such a great reputation. Superior hydraulics is a joke. JD never had a draft system worth a poot. Yes maybe they steered easier, but if you were using a front end loader on a gear drive JD and using the clutch a lot you could run out of hydraulics. This happened on certain models as least as late as the 3155. The charge pump couldn't keep up with the main pump.

 

Problem with the hydro is you couldn't do heavy tillage.  Problem with TA/syncro is you are stuck in 1 or 2 gears.  Powershift was a comprise between the two.  After the 4020 we had a 2950 and then a 3255 both with loaders too.  Loaded and unloaded thousands of round bales with both tractors and never once once once starved the hydraulics.  In fact the only place I have heard that problem is right here on Redpower which isn't surprising.  I believe the only guy in this thread who owns both red and green who gave an unbiased opinion says the hydraulics are better on the JD.  Go back and read it.  In case you missed it the first time I own a 1256 and 5010 and 20.  The JD's despite being heavier handle just as good if not better then the 1256.  And they don't have lever for each gear like the IH does and don't have the throttle sticking out away from you.  The 5020 is more convenient to drive.  

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7 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I know you are just defending IH, but I don’t think those criticisms of Deere are valid. I have spent a lot of time in an 8 speed power shift and sometimes being able to shift under full load 3 times is a good deal. An 8 speed does not have enough gears by today’s standards, but they are not useless. No Waterloo built Deere tractor that I know of after a 4020 has the problem you are describing with running out of hydraulics when using the clutch. I’m not familiar with a 3155 as that is not an American built tractor. Closed center hydraulics and planetary final drives has proven to be the better choice in large row crop tractors. 

  I cultivated a lot of corn with a 3020 Power Shift.  Here where I live you can get a lot of variability in corn height in a 10 acre field.  It was nothing to have to shift several times in a pass so as to not knock down short corn and make time in tall corn.  The productivity was there versus a manual non-synchronized shift.  

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7 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I know you are just defending IH, but I don’t think those criticisms of Deere are valid. I have spent a lot of time in an 8 speed power shift and sometimes being able to shift under full load 3 times is a good deal. An 8 speed does not have enough gears by today’s standards, but they are not useless. No Waterloo built Deere tractor that I know of after a 4020 has the problem you are describing with running out of hydraulics when using the clutch. I’m not familiar with a 3155 as that is not an American built tractor. Closed center hydraulics and planetary final drives has proven to be the better choice in large row crop tractors. 

I agree...chopped a lot of ground that you could not drop gears fast enough until at least an 88 series. Hardly then even. Powershift all the way. No way a TA tractor is going to come close. 

The gap from 7 to 8 is the worst thing. 

I'd rather run the 8 speed chopping than a 15. I know that's a unique situation and most jobs the 15 is much better.    Too many gears and too easy to shift 2 or 3 gears at a time. 

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1 hour ago, bitty said:

I think it is funny how the 8 speed is often said as so much better than anything IH offered at the time but I don't know a single JD guy nearby me that would ever own a 8 speed PS. I have had 3 over the years and these guys say how much they hate them. I didn't mind the transmission for what we had them for but the rest of the JD had it's drawbacks for sure

Even out here in Montana in our broad acre wheatland farming there was probably 1 powershift to every 3 synchro 4020s.  I know thats low ratio but when considering the number of 4020s sold there was still plenty of powershifts to go around.  I don't get the hate for a transmission that you can shift on the go from 8th to reverse and anything in between.  If its because of the jerkiness then maybe them guys should read the manual on how to adjust the shift rate.  IH did their best to not put one on the market.  

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12 minutes ago, Super A_sepa said:

I agree...chopped a lot of ground that you could not drop gears fast enough until at least an 88 series. Hardly then even. Powershift all the way. No way a TA tractor is going to come close. 

The gap from 7 to 8 is the worst thing. 

I'd rather run the 8 speed chopping than a 15. I know that's a unique situation and most jobs the 15 is much better.    Too many gears and too easy to shift 2 or 3 gears at a time. 

I guess everybody lives in a perfect farming world except me, 766 guy and you.  When I brought my 1256 home, we were short on tractors and it was haying season so I put it on the square baler.  The field I had to bale was hilly and the hay windrows varying between super thick and thin all across.  I did get the field baled up the field but it was stupid.  Our 4020 with the powershift would have finished that field in half the time because I would have not had to stop and shift all the time.  Granted that is worst case scenario for IH but fact is the powershift was a success and IMO hurt IH in the long run.  

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8 minutes ago, Super A_sepa said:

I agree...chopped a lot of ground that you could not drop gears fast enough until at least an 88 series. Hardly then even. Powershift all the way. No way a TA tractor is going to come close. 

The gap from 7 to 8 is the worst thing. 

I'd rather run the 8 speed chopping than a 15. I know that's a unique situation and most jobs the 15 is much better.    Too many gears and too easy to shift 2 or 3 gears at a time. 

  The 8 speed has some handy field speeds and I used the clutch to help smooth going from 7th to 8th.  I even do similar shifting with the 15 speed from 12 to 13.  Put in a foot throttle pedal to further aid things.  

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12 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

 

Problem with the hydro is you couldn't do heavy tillage.  Problem with TA/syncro is you are stuck in 1 or 2 gears.  Powershift was a comprise between the two.  After the 4020 we had a 2950 and then a 3255 both with loaders too.  Loaded and unloaded thousands of round bales with both tractors and never once once once starved the hydraulics.  In fact the only place I have heard that problem is right here on Redpower which isn't surprising.  I believe the only guy in this thread who owns both red and green who gave an unbiased opinion says the hydraulics are better on the JD.  Go back and read it.  In case you missed it the first time I own a 1256 and 5010 and 20.  The JD's despite being heavier handle just as good if not better then the 1256.  And they don't have lever for each gear like the IH does and don't have the throttle sticking out away from you.  The 5020 is more convenient to drive.  

We had a 3020 synchro with a 148 for years, next loader tractor was a 2950 quad with a 265. Losing bales as quick as you could change directions, I don’t ever remember running shy on hydraulics with either tractor 

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7 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Even tut here in Montana in our broad acre wheatland farming there was probably 1 powershift to every 3 synchro 4020s.  I know thats low ratio but when considering the number of 4020s sold there was still plenty of powershifts to go around.  I don't get the hate for a transmission that you can shift on the go from 8th to reverse and anything in between.  If its because of the jerkiness then maybe them guys should read the manual on how to adjust the shift rate.  IH did their best to not put one on the market.  

  A lot of farmers consider the purchase price the most important aspect of buying a tractor.  The 2 brothers to the south of us years ago went back and forth between each other on a 4020 in terms of cost (Synchro Range) versus productivity (Power Shift before they made a purchase.  They ultimately bought a Power Shift equipped tractor.  

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On 2/19/2022 at 7:24 PM, B.B. said:

I thought we all hoarded tractors?  

 

 

Are we not supposed to hoard tractors?

 

 

If we're not supposed to hoard tractors then I'm in trouble.....

I had to sign an agreement to hoard tractors when I applied for my man card! 😄

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8 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  A lot of farmers consider the purchase price the most important aspect of buying a tractor.  The 2 brothers to the south of us years ago went back and forth between each other on a 4020 in terms of cost (Synchro Range) versus productivity (Power Shift before they made a purchase.  They ultimately bought a Power Shift equipped tractor.  

I wasn't around where grandpa bought the 4020 so I don't know why he bought one with a powershift.  Could be because he fell in love with it being a new technology that nobody else had other then Ford.  Grandpa was sort of progressive when it came to farm machinery.  Could be it was the only tractor on the lot although I doubt that.  Could be because he was old and had bad knees.  Either way I was glad it was a powershift when it was demoted to a hay and loader tractor.  The only downside IMO of the powershift was in the early 4020s, they put out slightly less drawbar pull then the synchros but JD fixed that later on.  And that 8 speed powershift was used in industrial machinery too in scrapers and road graders.  Crappy transmission indeed. 

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Question about JD 8 speed powershifts. Were the lower hp tractors as harsh with the shifting due to the engine getting pulled down from the shift? Its been years since I've driven an 8 speed. There were two I remember distinctly, A 4230 and a 4430. The 4230 really didn't shift that hard, especially if you shifted into the higher gears at a lower throttle and then throttled up. The 4430 on the other hand was really crisp, like don't hold onto the shifter knob because the jolt would cause you to push it into another gear.

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22 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  The 8 speed has some handy field speeds and I used the clutch to help smooth going from 7th to 8th.  I even do similar shifting with the 15 speed from 12 to 13.  Put in a foot throttle pedal to further aid things.  

Yep clutching helped that shift a lot. At lower rpm it wasn't bad but having to make that shift under load at road speed was a jolt.  I don't like that 12 13 shift either. 

That's one job where I never understood how you would get anything done following the manual with a quad range. How do you start a 30k+ lb load in D1 on a hill? Didn't take real long to get the hang of shifting C to D, sometimes B, C, D. Just what you had to do.    More than one hill here that couldn't be climbed in D1 with a decent running 4630 QR  even with the smaller cart. Run out of power low enough that C1 isn't enough and down in A to get going again. That was a long slow crawl. 

Flat land farming would be boring but it's a nice change of pace.

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39 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Problem with the hydro is you couldn't do heavy tillage.  

That's funny, my father-in-law talks about running a nearly new 1066 hydro pulling a stalk chopper and a disc at the same time at the dairy farm he worked for. You COULD do heavy tillage with a hydro if you had the appropriate size equipment I believe. What you couldn't do with a hydro was keep adding weight and turning up the smoke screw and putting bigger and bigger implements behinds them. Eventually the system hyd dump limit would be reached and there you set.

Not a powershift hater but they were not perfect either.  And as you stated they were known to gobble up power as well so some old deered guys preferred the synchro over the ps. What did they do to take care of that later?

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