86 series poor reputation?

[Big Bud guy]

6 minutes ago, Farmer in training said:

The most significant reason you would take a 66 series over a late 20 or 30 series JD is confidence it's gonna start on the cold fall days. I've heard that the ih engine is superior in every other way but I don't know that for sure because I've never seen them compared side by side. Now I do know about how they start because my dads neighbor who bleeds green complains about it to this day. Depends on what's im

I think the cold starting issue is over blown for this reason.  Nobody knows what a hard starting tractor is until you run a Cummins powered Steiger and Versatile.  Yet thousands and thousands of farmers in Canada and northern US like is made a good living with them somehow.  

[Big Bud guy]

8 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I don’t know, maybe. 25 years ago the debate was still raging. I haven’t heard anything about it in a long time now. Most of those guys are gone. Makes me think about how many people I knew that are gone, good memories. 

I got both and I know which one would win most of the time.  

[766 Man]

37 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I wouldn’t be so sure about that.  I’d have to check, but I’m sure we gave pretty close money to our 830 as your father did for that 4010. 

  I'm working off of two things I have been told.  In Wayne Broehl's JD book from 1984 the comment was made that the Waterloo Works was the most profitable unit in the JD system when the decision to research the New Gen tractors was made.  It was also implied that this had been the case for quite a while.  One of the byproducts of that was supposed to have been a lower invoice to dealers versus the competition which was passed along to the farmer.  Second the R-80-820-830 line had a much lower scale of production versus the A, B, and G.  JD probably had more costs into the big tractors in terms of line setup and other production factors versus the smaller tractors.  Better pricing from vendors as there were more of any one component to make money on versus a smaller production run for things like starters and generators, etc..  This is what I get told by people who were more closely tied into Deere years ago.  Lastly, I don't know what else would make people favor one product over another beyond price if things such as quality are on par.

[Big Bud guy]

1 hour ago, ksfarmdude said:

They finally went to using the 8.1 engine in  '97 for the 8300 you must have an earlier serial number tractor

Yep.  I don’t know how much difference there is between the 7.6 and 8.1 besides displacement.  I think part of the reason they went to the 8.1 just to stream line everything.  Much like how they dropped the 10 liter in the 9000 series and went with just the 12.5 in the bigger 3.  

[Big Bud guy]

8 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  I'm working off of two things I have been told.  In Wayne Broehl's JD book from 1984 the comment was made that the Waterloo Works was the most profitable unit in the JD system when the decision to research the New Gen tractors was made.  It was also implied that this had been the case for quite a while.  One of the byproducts of that was supposed to have been a lower invoice to dealers versus the competition which was passed along to the farmer.  Second the R-80-820-830 line had a much lower scale of production versus the A, B, and G.  JD probably had more costs into the big tractors in terms of line setup and other production factors versus the smaller tractors.  Better pricing from vendors as there were more of any one component to make money on versus a smaller production run for things like starters and generators, etc..  This is what I get told by people who were more closely tied into Deere years ago.  Lastly, I don't know what else would make people favor one product over another beyond price if things such as quality are on par.

Think I will start a thread in the other page post your invoices and such.  I would like to see what tractors cost back then.

[B.B.]

Here’s some 86 series production pictures I stole from Facebook this morning.  
 

For your viewing pleasure  

[766 Man]

10 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Think I will start a thread in the other page post your invoices and such.  I would like to see what tractors cost back then.

  Hopefully, my dad has not misplaced them.  I do not say that as a deflection but more a concern about his level of organization.

[Big Bud guy]

2 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  Hopefully, my dad has not misplaced them.  I do not say that as a deflection but more a concern about his level of organization.

I meant to say for everyone to post their invoices or such.  I’m going to tonight.

[iowaboy1965]

22 hours ago, DT Fan said:

X-2, he was a great guy.

I miss that guy. 

[Big Bud guy]

6 hours ago, Eason said:

I don't see how the 56 series was behind the 20 series. I'll take a 856 or the beloved 4020 anyday!!!

Full Powershift transmission, closed center hydraulics, planetary finals, better steering system.  None of that mattered in the 60s but would later on.  For the record I have a 1256 and a 5010 and 20.  

[bitty]

47 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I think the cold starting issue is over blown for this reason.  Nobody knows what a hard starting tractor is until you run a Cummins powered Steiger and Versatile.  Yet thousands and thousands of farmers in Canada and northern US like is made a good living with them somehow.  

We are in a colder climate and our 9170 would start way easier than the 4630 we had no matter what the temperature is 

[Big Bud guy]

10 minutes ago, bitty said:

We are in a colder climate and our 9170 would start way easier than the 4630 we had no matter what the temperature is 

You need to step back to when that 4630 was new and when Steiger and Versatile existed.  I’m talking like the 855 in my 78’ Big Bud or the 903 that was in our Versatile 950.

[dale560]

1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

I think the cold starting issue is over blown for this reason.  Nobody knows what a hard starting tractor is until you run a Cummins powered Steiger and Versatile.  Yet thousands and thousands of farmers in Canada and northern US like is made a good living with them somehow.  

The cold starting is somewhat a generic myth. The hydraulic pump takes some power to turn so in colder weather that is dragging a bit. The original early 4430 and 4630 had a excess fuel starting device that needed to be tripped by moving throttle lever back and forth to reset it to give the needed fuel for starting. The later ones 76 and so or around there have hydraulic reset by engine oil.  This is a design flaw sort of but not a huge issue. You can modify the early linkage with a spring and cotter pin so it stays reset. A good jd will start down to around 40 degrees maybe 30 without a whiff of ether. A good international engine will start to around 10 or 20 without ether. The 466 in our truck with the big starter will roll off at zero without ether. I highly doubt 10% of the forum members on here are trying to start their tractors at these temps. The 7.6 jd is a 466 your refer to and a 8.1 is a 497 or someplace around there. As far as the power in jd tractors they are usually what they are rated at. We ran a 4630 and a 1566 on same implements. No noticeable difference in power and only slight fuel usage between the 2.  We had JD and international tractors. Now we just have ih because the price is cheaper . After baling with the 1486 there are pros and cons between the 2 series but the ihc is growing on me. One thing I like about the ihc is more cab side room.

[856 Custom]

Lol! This 4440-1086 bickering reminds me of 1982 when I was a freshman in FFA doing parliamentary procedure. Topic was should the FFA buy a 4440 or a 1086. Good lord that seemed to last forever. Lol! Here people are 40 years later still comparing the 2.

[dale560]

Another thing on Cummins engine the more hp goes up in increments, the compression ratio drops. You can not compare new tractors to each other or approximate hp ranges. You have to compare cpl numbers. A 315 hp engine in a semi will start better than a 315 tractor engine. 15.1 compression to 14.5 or 14 to one compression. The closest you get to 425 in a tractor you are 13.5 compression. Then on newer stuff the cam and tuneup is different so bigger power has more compression.

[Farming Enthusiast]

2 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

That doesn’t make sense.  You can subtract a bottom off the 720 and go faster too.  What would get more work done?  A 53 hp tractor pulling a 4 bottom plow or 46 hp pulling a 4 bottom plow.  

 

First of all I do t know where you're getting your numbers from. A 720 and 450 are right in the same ball park hp wise and I don't believe for a second that they'd outperform other brands like you say. Second of all I don't care if they'll pull ten bottoms, you could t pay me enough to sit on one all day

[766 Man]

35 minutes ago, dale560 said:

The cold starting is somewhat a generic myth. The hydraulic pump takes some power to turn so in colder weather that is dragging a bit. The original early 4430 and 4630 had a excess fuel starting device that needed to be tripped by moving throttle lever back and forth to reset it to give the needed fuel for starting. The later ones 76 and so or around there have hydraulic reset by engine oil.  This is a design flaw sort of but not a huge issue. You can modify the early linkage with a spring and cotter pin so it stays reset. A good jd will start down to around 40 degrees maybe 30 without a whiff of ether. A good international engine will start to around 10 or 20 without ether. The 466 in our truck with the big starter will roll off at zero without ether. I highly doubt 10% of the forum members on here are trying to start their tractors at these temps. The 7.6 jd is a 466 your refer to and a 8.1 is a 497 or someplace around there. As far as the power in jd tractors they are usually what they are rated at. We ran a 4630 and a 1566 on same implements. No noticeable difference in power and only slight fuel usage between the 2.  We had JD and international tractors. Now we just have ih because the price is cheaper . After baling with the 1486 there are pros and cons between the 2 series but the ihc is growing on me. One thing I like about the ihc is more cab side room.

  The 4010 diesel with 12V system will start down to 10 degrees with good batteries.  The 6620 combine will start down to 5 degrees same conditions.  Anybody want to bet money on that?  The 8430 and 4250 will start below 40 degrees without help.  

[dale560]

11 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  The 4010 diesel with 12V system will start down to 10 degrees with good batteries.  The 6620 combine will start down to 5 degrees same conditions.  Anybody want to bet money on that?  The 8430 and 4250 will start below 40 degrees without help.  

I know they will but I was just being nice. Dad bought a 64 4020 powershift in 79. He paid 10,000 for the dang thing I know it sold for less than that new. It was a 24 volt system. He got tired of the generator and around 83 made it straight 24 volt. The original 24 volt short starter just needed the one field coil grounded and cables plus wiring modified a bit. We pulled 12 volt for gauges and lights off the first battery. In reality he should have put 24 volt lights in and pulled those off second battery. We ground feed a lot at night and the way it was wired you had to charge the number one battery if you idled and ran the lights 5 or 6 hours. It had to do with voltage sensing on alt. But that straight 24 volt system would start that tractor to really cold temps. I have started our 8820 jd at about 5 above out in the field with a whiff of ether.  We had a 4430 on mixer wagon and 4630 on bale shredder plug them in they started. The ih tractors though you don’t care if they rattle a bit on cold start.

[Big Bud guy]

11 minutes ago, Farmer in training said:

First of all I do t know where you're getting your numbers from. A 720 and 450 are right in the same ball park hp wise and I don't believe for a second that they'd outperform other brands like you say. Second of all I don't care if they'll pull ten bottoms, you could t pay me enough to sit on one all day

I'm getting my facts from the Nebraska tests.  Where are you getting yours????  There is a reason IH put the 560 on the market.

[Big Bud guy]

3 hours ago, 856 Custom said:

Lol! This 4440-1086 bickering reminds me of 1982 when I was a freshman in FFA doing parliamentary procedure. Topic was should the FFA buy a 4440 or a 1086. Good lord that seemed to last forever. Lol! Here people are 40 years later still comparing the 2.

Out here in Montana it was Steiger vs Versatile

[DT Fan]

3 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  The 4010 diesel with 12V system will start down to 10 degrees with good batteries.  The 6620 combine will start down to 5 degrees same conditions.  Anybody want to bet money on that?  The 8430 and 4250 will start below 40 degrees without help.  

The cold starting of the 6620 was the only thing I liked about that P.O.S.!!! It never failed to start, never even needed a wiff of either. Changing belts......

[Mountain Heritage]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:24 AM, Qc.Can.IH man said:

The 86 series are by far my preferred tractor, especially the Hydro 186, I have three of them, two of them have loaders.

I just bought my third 786 with a factory cab and loader that will be installed on my third Hydro 186.

 I have a 886 986 1086 and a 1486 that I just finished a two-year restoration on!
I also have a 3088 four-wheel-drive factory open station but has a aftermarket cab, I plan on removing the cab and leaving it original or maybe try to find a factory cab to put on it in the future. I also have a 3288 and a 3688 that I restored in 2018. When I do restorations on the tractors they get Michelin Agri bib tires, LED lights, the AC gets fixed and I put a few improvements of my own on them. I make extra handles on the doors which makes it easier to get in and out and to close the doors from the inside and I also put gas springs on them to hold the doors open when getting in and out. I’ve also fixed up the rear windows so they are more like modern tractors that have the gas springs on the rear windows, I never liked the original slide and latch system on them! Good radial tires with the proper air inflation makes them ride so smooth compared to overinflated bias tires! I can sit in those tractors all day just like my 7120 magnum, MX 220 or MX maxxum. Most of the work I do with them is in the hay, I no longer grow any crops so the tractors only get used mostly during the summer. Some of them don’t have AC but a good fan in the cab along with the original blower with just the side windows open is bearable on the hottest summer days. 
 I find those tractors very simple to figure out and fix them, a clutch for example can be done in 10 hours.

I also have a couple of 2+2s

 Since you all like pictures I can post a bunch, I will start with my 1486, The last picture will be of the 1486 when I bought it in 2017. The second last picture is of my 786 with an aftermarket cab that will be removed. 

I don't have my glasses on.... was that Hot Plug doing small squares?  There seemed to be a lot of SKIN showing 😮

Anyone who hasn't figured it out yet...Dale has an addiction to red tractors!  I swear he has more tractors in his yard, shed, and shop than most dealers have on their lots in our area!

[Jacka]

5 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  The 4010 diesel with 12V system will start down to 10 degrees with good batteries.  The 6620 combine will start down to 5 degrees same conditions.  Anybody want to bet money on that?  The 8430 and 4250 will start below 40 degrees without help.  

More won't start then will.

[dale560]

40 minutes ago, Mountain Heritage said:

I don't have my glasses on.... was that Hot Plug doing small squares?  There seemed to be a lot of SKIN showing 😮

Anyone who hasn't figured it out yet...Dale has an addiction to red tractors!  I swear he has more tractors in his yard, shed, and shop than most dealers have on their lots in our area!

Must be  name requires you to hoard tractors.

[B.B.]

I thought we all hoarded tractors?  

 

 

Are we not supposed to hoard tractors?

 

 

If we're not supposed to hoard tractors then I'm in trouble.....