86 series poor reputation?

[Farming Enthusiast]

14 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  My father's father actually went through the decision process you describe albeit a couple years earlier than 1956.  He bought an 88 which is still here today.  He did not like hand clutches on tractors which doomed JD, Case, and MM where he was concerned.  He did concede that JD easily had the best price which helps explain why the later 2 cylinders sold so well.  The design had more or less paid for itself in terms of JD so a greater portion of the selling price was a return to JD corporate which they used to start the program for tractor development which resulted in the New Gen tractors.  So, some good came out of building the 2 cylinders past their prime.

The first tractors my grandfather had was an A and a B. The small town nearby had MM IH JD and Oliver. They tried all of them and never went back to JD. Now I respect the fact that they were able to make money them years but I'll add again that FORDS under appreciation for what they had for engineers had just as much if not more to do with their success. 

[ksfarmdude]

8 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

The one in our 8300 does just fine.  

They finally went to using the 8.1 engine in  '97 for the 8300 you must have an earlier serial number tractor

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Big Bud guy]

13 minutes ago, Farmer in training said:

The first tractors my grandfather had was an A and a B. The small town nearby had MM IH JD and Oliver. They tried all of them and never went back to JD. Now I respect the fact that they were able to make money them years but I'll add again that FORDS under appreciation for what they had for engineers had just as much if not more to do with their success. 

Since you brought that up.  Back in the day grandpa traded his IH W600 off for a JD 830.  Up to that point he had owned a W9 and WD-9.

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

11 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

[Farming Enthusiast]

2 minutes ago, Farmer in training said:

I would agree IH kept the letter series platform too long that's why I would say that from 47 until the mid 50s Oliver had the best tractor line. And my family having a Super 77D I would argue Oliver having the best Diesel for sure. My family had two 560s a gas and diesel and they thought highly of them. My wife's grandfather who is an AC guy and father in law who is an Oliver guy also respect the 560. So I believe at least some of the bashing of the 60 series comes from people grabbing at straws as to what happened to IH 

Sorry for posting that so

many times, I thought it wasn't submitting. 

[Farming Enthusiast]

5 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Since you brought that up.  Back in the day grandpa traded his IH W600 off for a JD 830.  Up to that point he had owned a W9 and WD-9.

May be a difference in what they used them for

[Big Bud guy]

4 minutes ago, Farmer in training said:

May be a difference in what they used them for

What do you mean by that? The 830 is a wheatland tractor just like the IH W series.  The 830 plowed/seeded the same fields and raised the same crops as the 3 previous IH tractors.  

[hillman]

anyone know of a magazine or online forum for IH enthusiasts?

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

I have to admit this is a new one for me. Usually it’s whether or not a 1066 is better than a 4430. I haven’t really heard a lot of people compare an 86 series IH to a 30 series Deere, they usually compare them to 40 series. I realize the introduction of each series doesn’t line up exactly between companies, but that is the way I always heard it framed. I wonder what year it will have to be before all the people who used both are dead and people just no longer know how big the rivalry was between these two models. I sure don’t hear about whether or not a Super M was better than a G as much as I used to. 

[Farming Enthusiast]

1 minute ago, Big Bud guy said:

What do you mean by that? The 830 is a wheatland tractor just like the IH W series.  The 830 plowed/seeded the same fields and raised the same crops as the 3 previous IH tractors.  

What I meant was there was probably a difference between what our family's used their tractors for and expected out of them. The only thing I've heard about a W9 is the wife's grandpa had one and said he was disappointed in its pulling power but also says an M is a good tractor. Now, I wasn't alive back in the 50s but you wanna bring up how many plows your big two cylinders would pull but I'd have to argue that other brands could pull one less bottom a fair amount faster and get just as much done at the end of the day. Again my opinion would be they shouldn't have made it out of the 50s. Todays market says you need to have a $1000 cell phone. That doesn't mean I agree with it

[Timothy56]

I kind of like the 2 doors. I probably use the right side one way more than  the left.  i can reach the hydraulic levers from the ground instead of crawling in to move levers when trying to hook up a hose that it giving a problem. Or replacing a section in the mower or haybine. Just step out the right door grab my parts from the right hand tool box turn around and a few steps be working on the problem instead of exiting the left walk around the front of the tractor.

[Big Bud guy]

2 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I have to admit this is a new one for me. Usually it’s whether or not a 1066 is better than a 4430. I haven’t really heard a lot of people compare an 86 series IH to a 30 series Deere, they usually compare them to 40 series. I realize the introduction of each series doesn’t line up exactly between companies, but that is the way I always heard it framed. I wonder what year it will have to be before all the people who used both are dead and people just no longer know how big the rivalry was between these two models. I sure don’t hear about whether or not a Super M was better than a G as much as I used to. 

I thought it was a G and M.  And it is usually a 1066 vs the 4430 because the years line up better but the 4430 comes even better then in comparison.  I could be convinced to take a 1086 over a 4430 if it cheaper and I don’t need hydraulics.  But a 1066?  The IH salesman would be wasting his time.

[766 Man]

57 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

First of all when it comes to Oliver, if they would have had the dealer network that IH or JD did along with a more comprehensive implement/hay/combine line, they would have put a huge hurting both JD and IH for reasons I won't get into unless you want to hear them.  2nd, if its 1956 and I need the biggest rowcrop diesel tractor I can get, that would rule out the 400/450 and I'd have to go with the JD 720.  Farmers were demanding more hp and the top of the line rowcrop tractors were rapidly becoming the top seller.  IH failed to respond until they rushed the 560 out onto the market.  IH never did listen to farmers much after the original Farmall.  At least when it came to tractors.  3rd, what you stated about JD should have never made it out of the 50s is funny because the exact opposite happened.  You see up to WW II and a little afterwards, IH had a huge lead on JD in market share.  Yet in the 50s when IH should have left JD in the dust with a supposedly more "modern" Farmall design JD gained market share and matched IH or less in the mid to late 50s with that obsolete design.  Don't ask me how that happened, ask the guys who lived that era.  And finally my knowledge is limited to the Wheatbelt and I'm here to tell the you the 2 cylinder diesel wheatlands were very much a tractor compared to IH.  Superior lugging ability, fuel economy, an actual Ops platform, live PTO.  The sales numbers prove it.  And that hand clutch people like to criticize, well I got news for you, lots of the IH wheatlands had hand clutches too.  

  We know why JD was the ascending brand during the 1950's.  Most farmers bought on price and JD typically had the best price.  As long as the failure rate was not out of line for the industry which it was not farmers ran their 2 cylinders without complaint.  

[Big Bud guy]

11 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  We know why JD was the ascending brand during the 1950's.  Most farmers bought on price and JD typically had the best price. 

I wouldn’t be so sure about that.  I’d have to check, but I’m sure we gave pretty close money to our 830 as your father did for that 4010. 

[jass1660]

1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

I think what Mark said is the final word on the 1086 vs 4430.  IH out lugs the 4430 and that's it.  A IH tractor 3 times smaller then the 4430 doesn't out pull it like guys on the Bash Board use to claim.  

1066 is a 4840 killer! 😂😂

[Farming Enthusiast]

33 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I thought it was a G and M.  And it is usually a 1066 vs the 4430 because the years line up better but the 4430 comes even better then in comparison.  I could be convinced to take a 1086 over a 4430 if it cheaper and I don’t need hydraulics.  But a 1066?  The IH salesman would be wasting his time.

The most significant reason you would take a 66 series over a late 20 or 30 series JD is confidence it's gonna start on the cold fall days. I've heard that the ih engine is superior in every other way but I don't know that for sure because I've never seen them compared side by side. Now I do know about how they start because my dads neighbor who bleeds green complains about it to this day. Depends on what's important to you

[Big Bud guy]

38 minutes ago, Farmer in training said:

Now, I wasn't alive back in the 50s but you wanna bring up how many plows your big two cylinders would pull but I'd have to argue that other brands could pull one less bottom a fair amount faster and get just as much done at the end of the day. 

That doesn’t make sense.  You can subtract a bottom off the 720 and go faster too.  What would get more work done?  A 53 hp tractor pulling a 4 bottom plow or 46 hp pulling a 4 bottom plow.  

 

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

39 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I thought it was a G and M.

I don’t know, maybe. 25 years ago the debate was still raging. I haven’t heard anything about it in a long time now. Most of those guys are gone. Makes me think about how many people I knew that are gone, good memories.