86 series poor reputation?

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

I spent considerable time in the JD soundgard cabs in my early twenties.   The entry was nice, but I never could get used to leaning on one cheek to look past the pillar,  exhaust and intake!  The first time I operated an 86 tractor, the cab forward design with nothing but a small exhaust stack in that shortened hood made visibility a dream. The headlight design was excellent for this part time farmer, who worked after dark.  I was out of the dust,  had little need for ear plugs and had ample heat/ ac. The ultimate IH tractor experience!  After I purchased my 1486, spring work was much more fun!  I would take my little rat terrier with me and she would sleep on the ledge behind the seat.  All machines have their shortcomings, but they were a step up in my opinion.

[DT Fan]

2 minutes ago, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

I spent considerable time in the JD soundgard cabs in my early twenties.   The entry was nice, but I never could get used to leaning on one cheek to look past the pillar,  exhaust and intake!  The first time I operated an 86 tractor, the cab forward design with nothing but a small exhaust stack in that shortened hood made visibility a dream. The headlight design was excellent for this part time farmer, who worked after dark.  I was out of the dust,  had little need for ear plugs and had ample heat/ ac. The ultimate IH tractor experience!  After I purchased my 1486, spring work was much more fun!  I would take my little rat terrier with me and she would sleep on the ledge behind the seat.  All machines have their shortcomings, but they were a step up in my opinion.

I agree totally about looking around all that crap in the view from the sound-gaurd!

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

With all due respect to everyone here and their opinion on each series of machines,  we are looking at this in retrospective.   At the time, each series offered improvements and shortcomings from the previous and following series of machines.  During the history of IH, company executives always feared that the customer base would shy away from machines vastly different from those currently available.   This philosophy often hindered new ideas from being implemented for a decade or more.  The H/M series was held onto far too long in the 460/560 series.  But, executives did not want to scare the consumer with a big, fancy new model.  The 06 series put IH back in the game, but was basically unchanged until the mid 80's.   We were behind the game again.  The leadership of Harvester was afraid to introduce products too radical for the customer.   What if the power shift transmission had been used on the 06 series instead of the TA?  What if the magnum transmission had been introduced a decade sooner? We will never know.  

[IHandJDman]

24 minutes ago, DT Fan said:

I agree totally about looking around all that crap in the view from the sound-gaurd!

When I drove a 4440 it didn't bother me at all.  Everyone's different.

[hillman]

one thing being overlooked here is the 4430. You guys are all over the IH tractors but there are no shortage of threads on RPF hating on the 4430 for terrible starting and the lack of pulling the hat off your head feature. Yes JD got ahead of them with the cab but it wasn't a home run 

 

 1066s are a real good seller currently for a reason and a lot of guys are taking the cabs off and finding new life and purpose for them ,

[Big Bud guy]

5 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

 

It was the cabs that sucked. End of story. You skipped this series with a better cab. It would have been well received. Think about it. 86 series in 71. Deere didn't have the birdcage Sound Guard cab until 73. We would have had a run with them I feel. 

 

 

JD was going to add the SGB as a option on the 20 series.  If that would have happened, would the 86 series come out sooner or would we have seen the 66 series at all

[Big Bud guy]

1 minute ago, hillman said:

one thing being overlooked here is the 4430. You guys are all over the IH tractors but there are no shortage of threads on RPF hating on the 4430 for terrible starting and the lack of pulling the hat off your head feature. Yes JD got ahead of them with the cab but it wasn't a home run 

 

 

Yes they were a home run.  IH with that superior engine never caught JD. I’ve said this 100 times by now.  I had an old IH salesman tell me he had friends go out and buy a JD 30 series just to get the SGB.   Didn’t care about the rest of the tractor.  Also, at the start of this thread people talked how exaggerated the shortcomings were for the 86 series.  I think the same thing for the 30 series.  

[Big Bud guy]

26 minutes ago, IHandJDman said:

When I drove a 4440 it didn't bother me at all.  Everyone's different.

Never bothered me either and we ran SGBs for 20 years alongside other non SGB tractors.  

[Super A_sepa]

Should have went right to the 56 series and skipped the 06 series if we are playing picky choosy. 407, handier shifters, easier service. 

[hillman]

17 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Yes they were a home run.  IH with that superior engine never caught JD. I’ve said this 100 times by now.  I had an old IH salesman tell me he had friends go out and buy a JD 30 series just to get the SGB.   Didn’t care about the rest of the tractor.  Also, at the start of this thread people talked how exaggerated the shortcomings were for the 86 series.  I think the same thing for the 30 series.  

the 4440 was a homerun 4430 a triple. I have no issue with the green or red ones. I think some people need to be around some poor tractors of that era.... bitty and I have with one color and there were others. 

[88power]

1 hour ago, hillman said:

one thing being overlooked here is the 4430. You guys are all over the IH tractors but there are no shortage of threads on RPF hating on the 4430 for terrible starting and the lack of pulling the hat off your head feature. Yes JD got ahead of them with the cab but it wasn't a home run 

 

 1066s are a real good seller currently for a reason and a lot of guys are taking the cabs off and finding new life and purpose for them ,

see here's another one i wouldn't have heard if not for the web about the 4430 everyone loves them around here but you bring up the 4630 and they will say the lack of power line just like you said but about the 4630 and the hard starting I agree 110% but these deere guys hate to swallow their pride and admit they had to borrow a Red tractor to feed with because theirs wouldn't start when the temp dropped 

[766 Man]

1 hour ago, Super A_sepa said:

Should have went right to the 56 series and skipped the 06 series if we are playing picky choosy. 407, handier shifters, easier service. 

  The 06 series was a reaction to the JD New Generation lineup.  The 361 already existed in the IH production system which cut back on the R & D time for the 806.  IH really needed to get the 806 out of the factory and into the dealerships when it did.  Oliver brought out the 1850 in 1964 plus the Case 930 was not half bad so more delays would have made things worse for IH.  IH was limited money-wise as most manufacturers were for development of tractors.  By 1970 a lot of money was needed to start on the Axial Flow line among other products.  JD benefited from the late 2 cylinders being highly profitable (minimal factory tooling upgrades) plus had a top of the line financial division to fuel the development of a new tractor line.  But nobody gets it right 100 percent of the time and they all had products when released that had the public wondering what they were thinking.  

[DT Fan]

1 hour ago, IHandJDman said:

When I drove a 4440 it didn't bother me at all.  Everyone's different.

Conversely getting in and out of the deluxe cab on my 10 has never been an issue. It is noisy, I'm used to wearing earplugs.

Had a huge MM collector tell me once after I spotted some goofy block of wood he had supporting a steering shaft. "When you love 'em you just embrace the shortcomings." Pretty sure that sentiment is reflected in this thread in spades!

On a similar note, lots of guys grouse about getting on/off an Allis WD. Never been a problem for me. Right foot on the drawbar, left foot on the platform, swing right leg over seat, sit down. No problem. My complaint, (which I accept) is the lack of room between the foot-rests and pedals. Apparently designed for size 10 shoes not 13's!

 

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

Just now, DT Fan said:

Conversely getting in and out of the deluxe cab on my 10 has never been an issue. It is noisy, I'm used to wearing earplugs.

Had a huge MM collector tell me once after I spotted some goofy block of wood he had supporting a steering shaft. "When you love 'em you just embrace the shortcomings." Pretty sure that sentiment is reflected in this thread in spades!

On a similar note, lots of guys grouse about getting on/off an Allis WD. Never been a problem for me. Right foot on the drawbar, left foot on the platform, swing right leg over seat, sit down. No problem. My complaint, (which I accept) is the lack of room between the foot-rests and pedals. Apparently designed for size 10 shoes not 13's!

 

Try that with a size 12 and a prosthetic leg!  My WD45 went to a new home!

[DT Fan]

Just now, nepoweshiekfarmalls said:

Try that with a size 12 and a prosthetic leg!  My WD45 went to a new home!

Guess I'd have to concede that!

[Big Bud guy]

5 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  The 06 series was a reaction to the JD New Generation lineup.  The 361 already existed in the IH production series which cut back on the R & D time for the 806.  IH really needed to get the 806 out of the factory and into the dealerships when it did.  

Don’t forget the 3020/4020 actually came out the same time or even a hair before the 06 series so it was getting desperate.  I don’t think IH would have made it to 1985 if they held off the 06 series a little bit longer.  

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

1 hour ago, Super A_sepa said:

Should have went right to the 56 series and skipped the 06 series if we are playing picky choosy. 407, handier shifters, easier service. 

I would hate to give up my 1206! 😁

I know the 56 series shifters are handy, but I spent a LOT of hours running a pair of 706's.   I learned the knack of shifting them well.  Proper adjustments are crucial for easy shifting. 

The 56 series was great because the 06 series was good.....then the 66 series was even better.  Each series a bit more refined. 

[766 Man]

13 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

Don’t forget the 3020/4020 actually came out the same time or even a hair before the 06 series so it was getting desperate.  I don’t think IH would have made it to 1985 if they held off the 06 series a little bit longer.  

  When dad bought the 4010 diesel which is still here today the 4020's were already at the JD dealers.  The IH dealers here in the East would not even talk 806 because they did not know when they would receive their first shipment.  Dad says the local IH dealer would only talk 560.  The local JD dealer actually had a pretty good price on a 4020 diesel as they were within a year of retiring and did not want stock sitting around.  JD offered an excellent clearance program for the 4010 so that was the direction dad went in the end.  5,500 dollars bought a 4010 diesel with WFE, 18.4 X 34 tires and 2 remotes plus number 10 mid-mount mower along with a F145H 4 X 16 plow.  I've seen the invoice.  The same features in a 4020 tractor alone was 6,200 dollars which was a fairly good price from what I was told.  When the 806 showed up at the local IH dealer a few months later it was priced at 6,700 dollars with WFE and being diesel.  That was about the same as a 4020 diesel with Power Shift then.

[sandhiller]

25 minutes ago, DT Fan said:

Had a huge MM collector tell me once after I spotted some goofy block of wood he had supporting a steering shaft. "When you love 'em you just embrace the shortcomings." Pretty sure that sentiment is reflected in this thread in spades!

That is a great line and a person I would rather be around than someone who grouses about every little thing they don't like. 

[DT Fan]

30 minutes ago, sandhiller said:

That is a great line and a person I would rather be around than someone who grouses about every little thing they don't like. 

X-2, he was a great guy.

[Matt Kirsch]

I should not be disappointed that this discussion has devolved into, "WHAT? The 86 series is junk? Nobody told me!" Yet I am.

That is NOT what is being said, and it never was.

Performance-wise the tractor is running a proven engine with a proven drivetrain. It is every bit on-par with the 66 series before, if not slightly better. How can it NOT be? They're virtually the same tractor underneath.

There were just a few poor decisions made around the operator's platform that make them less than ideal if you're not a skinny young guy, and/or under certain conditions. You have no problems pointing out the "flaw" in Deere's Soundgard cab (i.e. the seam in the windshield that's perfectly in line with the muffler and the air cleaner stack so you don't see it anyway). 

Oh, and if you want to eliminate a series, it should have been the 460/560 series. Make the 350/450 for two more years, then release the 06 series in 1960. 06 series runs 1960-1965 while Deere has to backpedal and come out with the 20 series in 63 because of the 10 series shortcomings. 1965-1969 for the 56 series. 66 series comes out in 70. 86 series comes out in 75. 88 series comes out in 81, but with the 18-speed powershift.

Only problem with my revisionist history is, NO BLACK STRIPE 66 SERIES!!!

[Matt Kirsch]

39 minutes ago, sandhiller said:

That is a great line and a person I would rather be around than someone who grouses about every little thing they don't like. 

Pointing out/discussing the shortcomings isn't grousing about them.

[Big Bud guy]

4 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

 

Oh, and if you want to eliminate a series, it should have been the 460/560 series.

 

I disagree there.  The whole reason the 560 was rushed to the market is because IH was falling behind in the horsepower race. JD had the 5 plow rated 720 since 1956 and IH didn’t match that until 1958.  

[searcyfarms]

i like all tractors - some just more than others 

[ky966boy]

86’s seemed to be my favorite.