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86 series poor reputation?


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17 minutes ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

Big Bud

So I guess the 66 and 86 series of tractors are copies of the Olivers then? 

Pretty similar to me!

Oh no, the 686 has the same number of holes in the grille! Lawsuit time!

1972 OLIVER 1955INTERNATIONAL 686 at EquipmentFacts.comINTERNATIONAL 1466

That would be my “observation” 

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Just now, Big Bud guy said:

Ironic then that it was Case tractors that ended up getting the red paint and International

what I get from that was  Case tractors were inferior to the 50 series and Ketelsen knew it

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Our CIH service rep Del Christman in the early 90's had been with IH since the early 60's. He was fascinating to talk to and I wish I visited with him more. He retired around 92 or 93. Case had put both a 5488 and a 2594 thru the ringer in some pretty severe testing. The Case drivetrain was failing at around 500 hours if I remember correct. The 5488 went over 2000 hours. It was then determined which drivetrain to use. But time and improvements were needed. So it was decided to paint red and fire sale the Case tractors on hand. I think that decision also hurt Magnum sales somewhat as the Magnum was forever thought of by many as a red Case.

There was some arrogance on Case's part as well. Del was at the first joint meeting after the Tenneco buy out. At that meeting Case had mockups of IH combines and equipment painted Case white with orange wheels. The uproar was deafening. That would have went over as well as when Deutz painted all the Allis stuff that awful green. Cooler heads prevailed. And for a long time Case really pushed the case heritage.

What also was a bit frustrating on the parts side was Case went and determined what IH parts were obsolete. Del said everything pre-1939 was scrapped. Made it frustrating for anyone wanting to restore a 10-20 or F20. There was virtually nothing I could order for them. Yet I could get sleeves and pistons for a 1930 CC Case. Some very short sighted people in charge early on. At least on the parts side.

 

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...I guess this thread has about run its race.....  but our old 886 certainly hasn't ... It gets all the sh!t  jobs...still fires right up'in the winter whilst on the bale feeder.....runs the small irrigation pump   for many hours , watering the maize crop....it gets very little love apart fro m     the basic necessities   of life.....and that is not Shell Oil....!!!!!!.....Morris oil from the UK, is what we use ....As for the hours?????????     ..no idea...the TA still works ok..It is not by any means in show room condition...but its a great old work horse..

Mike

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49 minutes ago, cedar farm said:

And for a long time Case really pushed the case heritage.

In the early days of case-IH, the heat indicator for an M had a Case eagle where the IH would have been. I’m glad I opened the box before I paid for it, save me a trip back to return it.

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Just now, Binderoid said:

In the early days of case-IH, the heat indicator for an M had a Case eagle where the IH would have been. I’m glad I opened the box before I paid for it, save me a trip back to return it.

Shear arrogance. If I remember correct at the time of the buyout there were something like 4500 IHC dealerships and 900 Case dealerships. And that probably included Case CE stores. Granted I was told IHC was top heavy on executives, so maybe Tenneco thought lets put the mouse in charge of the lion. Lyle's story on Old Abe on the steering wheel is quite true. I kept little IH decals on hand that would fit in that steering wheel center.

All in all Case did a good job of transitioning the 50 series into the Magnum. A boltless hood. Better wheel rear clamps. Needle bearings in the trans instead of washers and bushings. And a door opening the way it should. And I can't forget the 18 POWERSHIFT speeds.

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6 hours ago, jass1660 said:

The Magnum could’ve looked like this….

47EBB0AE-1A23-4481-B075-C103A37AF006.jpeg

That would have been a marketing disaster. It would have only pushed more people to John Deere in my opinion. I think comparing it to what Deutz did to Allis is not far off. There were a few die hard AC guys here and not one of them ever had a green, air cooled tractor. Most of them are gone now, but they always held a grudge against Deutz for what they did to orange tractors. 

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Fourteen pages in and I can't believe nobody brought up that you needed to remove half of the hood to service the air filter. That was one thing that always got me.

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13 minutes ago, TractormanMike.mb said:

Fourteen pages in and I can't believe nobody brought up that you needed to remove half of the hood to service the air filter. That was one thing that always got me.

That didn't bother me at all , Actually I thought that was a plus for doing work on other things under there like injectors valve cover removal for setting valves lots of things to do under there Try taking the hood off of a 4440 sometime by yourself you'll really see what pain is

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45 minutes ago, ksfarmdude said:

That didn't bother me at all , Actually I thought that was a plus for doing work on other things under there like injectors valve cover removal for setting valves lots of things to do under there Try taking the hood off of a 4440 sometime by yourself you'll really see what pain is

I'll agree that removing the hood is easier compared to others but having to do it to perform maintenance on an item like an air filter that in some conditions needs to be done regularly is sometimes a nuisance. 

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29 minutes ago, TractormanMike.mb said:

I'll agree that removing the hood is easier compared to others but having to do it to perform maintenance on an item like an air filter that in some conditions needs to be done regularly is sometimes a nuisance. 

There was no reason for that. They could have put an access door there with a couple quarter turn fasteners or something. AC did the same thing on the 7050 size tractors and the hood sheet is twice as heavy. They were held on with over-center spring latches. But at least you can get at the air cleaner without tools.

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2 hours ago, TractormanMike.mb said:

Fourteen pages in and I can't believe nobody brought up that you needed to remove half of the hood to service the air filter. That was one thing that always got me.

Ya but didn't that start with the 66 series? I agree, I love the aircleaner access door on my 826

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I loved the bolt/washer sales for 66-86 series. On the White 2-135 thru 2-180 series the side hoods were easily removed by one spring loaded latch and one rubber hook. But you rarely had to check their air filters because standard equipment was an aspirated air cleaner and indicator. Something the 86 series didn't offer until the late 1980 and 81 models. They have the 3-1/2" ex pipe. It should have been been made standard equipment when the 66 series came out.

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3 hours ago, TractormanMike.mb said:

Fourteen pages in and I can't believe nobody brought up that you needed to remove half of the hood to service the air filter. That was one thing that always got me.

The 66 series was the same way, so it wasn't unique to the 86 series. 

 

1 hour ago, jass1660 said:

Guys were over servicing the air filters that’s why they did away with door. 

That's what I've been told too. Guys would pull it on the 56 series. Bang it on whatever hard surface they could find, damage the filter in the process and then dust the engine. The thought process was that what I've been told if you made it just hard enough that it wouldn't be easy to do in the field you would do it near the shop and actually blow it out with air. That's what I've been told anyway 

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1 hour ago, Reichow7120 said:

The 66 series was the same way, so it wasn't unique to the 86 series. 

 

That's what I've been told too. Guys would pull it on the 56 series. Bang it on whatever hard surface they could find, damage the filter in the process and then dust the engine. The thought process was that what I've been told if you made it just hard enough that it wouldn't be easy to do in the field you would do it near the shop and actually blow it out with air. That's what I've been told anyway 

A slightly dirty air filter actually cleans the air better than a brand new one, now a packed one, different story.

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Hopefully looking at another 186 next weekend ....... 

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