86 series poor reputation?

[dale560]

20 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

  Since this thread is about 86 series tractors I will relate the following.  One time I had to pick up a part (around 1980) at a WNY dealer since the local dealer did not have it and we needed that part ASAP.  This dealer just north of Batavia, NY had at least 60 86 series tractors lined up along Rte 98.  Quick count indicated at least 2 dozen 1086 tractors.  As a teen who had not too long prior got his driver's license seeing that many new tractors in a row was impressive.  Maybe not so much for somebody who lived in the Midwest at that time.

When I was 18 we drove up to Brandon Manitoba to haul a 3010 diesel home for a Buddy of my dads. When we were on north side of Brandon the Fraser auction house is East on a  bypass hiway. The versatile tractor dealer had about 15 or 20 new blue ford versatile tractors lined up and a couple of new old versatile combines. I was in awe just like you. There were no blue tractors 50 miles south of the border yet.

[midnightman]

4 minutes ago, dale560 said:

When I was 18 we drove up to Brandon Manitoba to haul a 3010 diesel home for a Buddy of my dads. When we were on north side of Brandon the Fraser auction house is East on a  bypass hiway. The versatile tractor dealer had about 15 or 20 new blue ford versatile tractors lined up and a couple of new old versatile combines. I was in awe just like you. There were no blue tractors 50 miles south of the border yet.

Brandon is only 1/2 hour south of me. I remember how many of those they had on the lot. Still lots of them used as main field work tractor on smaller acre farms around here. Larger farms are using them on heavy harrows and land rollers

[dale560]

28 minutes ago, midnightman said:

Brandon is only 1/2 hour south of me. I remember how many of those they had on the lot. Still lots of them used as main field work tractor on smaller acre farms around here. Larger farms are using them on heavy harrows and land rollers

Was the dealership where I have picture circled. I thought it was at intersection. It was the week after New Years 1989. The auctioneer (Fraser ) was gone 3010 didn’t start but he had a 4030 jd we pushed tractor on trailer with.

[B.B.]

5 hours ago, IHC5488 said:

The 1586 listed above as King of all tractors is the 1st off the line owned by CNH.....that picture was taken at a show in Wisconsin a few years ago.

Yep!  That's why it's the king!

 

 

[Eason]

21 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

 

Problem with the hydro is you couldn't do heavy tillage.  Problem with TA/syncro is you are stuck in 1 or 2 gears.  Powershift was a comprise between the two.  After the 4020 we had a 2950 and then a 3255 both with loaders too.  Loaded and unloaded thousands of round bales with both tractors and never once once once starved the hydraulics.  In fact the only place I have heard that problem is right here on Redpower which isn't surprising.  I believe the only guy in this thread who owns both red and green who gave an unbiased opinion says the hydraulics are better on the JD.  Go back and read it.  In case you missed it the first time I own a 1256 and 5010 and 20.  The JD's despite being heavier handle just as good if not better then the 1256.  And they don't have lever for each gear like the IH does and don't have the throttle sticking out away from you.  The 5020 is more convenient to drive.  

i ran a side console 3020 diesel for years with the 8 speed sycrorange. We used it for plot peanut harvesters. If you held the clutch in for to long the pto would starve for oil and kick out. We had to knock the tractor out of gear to utilize it on the harvester. The diesel engine also had NO torque rise and would fall on it's face just like a 4430. A good 856 will give a 4430 a run for it's money. The guy who bought dad's 856 sold the 856 and bought a 4430. Even he admits the 856 is just as powerful and burns 1/3 less fuel.

[midnightman]

5 hours ago, dale560 said:

Was the dealership where I have picture circled. I thought it was at intersection. It was the week after New Years 1989. The auctioneer (Fraser ) was gone 3010 didn’t start but he had a 4030 jd we pushed tractor on trailer with.

 

Pretty sure it should have been Mazer implements on the south end of Brandon by 1989. Had the motor replaced in our 750 Massey in the middle of harvest somewhere around that time at their shop. Haven’t really taken note lately, but Fraser’s still had that same 4030 last year 

[Reichow7120]

1 hour ago, Eason said:

i ran a side console 3020 diesel for years with the 8 speed sycrorange. We used it for plot peanut harvesters. If you held the clutch in for to long the pto would starve for oil and kick out. We had to knock the tractor out of gear to utilize it on the harvester. The diesel engine also had NO torque rise and would fall on it's face just like a 4430. A good 856 will give a 4430 a run for it's money. The guy who bought dad's 856 sold the 856 and bought a 4430. Even he admits the 856 is just as powerful and burns 1/3 less fuel.

We've learned the gutlessness of the 3020 Diesel in the powershift version. 

We have a John Deere 510C backhoe from the early 70s. This backhoe uses the same engine as a 3020 Diesel and the 8 speed poweshift with a shuttle forward/reverse. Going down the road it plods along. Definitely not setting any land speed records. That engine really falls on its face going up any grade. There are a few hills around here you have to downshift to make it. The poweshift does at least make it easy to do that. 

It is also without a doubt the most cold blooded engine on the place, hands down. You walk by the backhoe with ice in your drink, its not going to start. Unless its been running before hand. We've been using it to help us cutting wood on my farm so we don't have to drive the loader tractor from the main farm over to my place, about 4 miles. If you are out on a good and cold day. You make sure it's been ran for a few minutes before you leave for lunch so its still warm enough to start after lunch. No power cords out in the middle of the field if you need the block heater. The 786 on the log splitter once started in the morning is good for the day. 

I will say hydraulics on it have never been a issue. On the backhoes they have 2 hydraulic pumps. One on the front like normal and a mid mount one. Needs decent hydraulics on it because this is when they built backhoes the size they do midsized excavators now.

The 404 Deere in my opinion was painted the wrong color. Should have been painted Detroit Diesel blue and called the dwarf 6-71. They were ok as long as you kept them spooled up. But God help you if it starts to lug. It will fall on its face faster than a 90 year old woman on a walker on a icy sidewalk. The 5440 self propelled chopper we use has a 404 in it and it falls on its face hard and fast in tough conditions.

 

[Big Bud guy]

3 hours ago, Eason said:

i ran a side console 3020 diesel for years with the 8 speed sycrorange. We used it for plot peanut harvesters. If you held the clutch in for to long the pto would starve for oil and kick out. We had to knock the tractor out of gear to utilize it on the harvester.

If that's the only example there is I don't think mother Deere lost any sleep.  

Quote

The diesel engine also had NO torque rise and would fall on it's face just like a 4430. A good 856 will give a 4430 a run for it's money. The guy who bought dad's 856 sold the 856 and bought a 4430. Even he admits the 856 is just as powerful and burns 1/3 less fuel.

What is a good 856??  One that has a turbo added.  Thats typical bash board material like I said earlier.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

2 hours ago, Eason said:

i ran a side console 3020 diesel for years with the 8 speed sycrorange. We used it for plot peanut harvesters. If you held the clutch in for to long the pto would starve for oil and kick out. We had to knock the tractor out of gear to utilize it on the harvester. The diesel engine also had NO torque rise and would fall on it's face just like a 4430. A good 856 will give a 4430 a run for it's money. The guy who bought dad's 856 sold the 856 and bought a 4430. Even he admits the 856 is just as powerful and burns 1/3 less fuel.

Since this thread is already off the rails anyway, do you know how many hours were on that 3020? Was it in good condition overall? I have heard of this issue, but I have never have had a 10 or 20 series to experience it. The charge pump is “live” on 30 series Waterloo tractors. I know Deere claimed that with a good front pump, clean suction screen, and a good filter that the front pump should still be able to draw oil even when the transmission drive charge pump is stopped because the clutch is pushed in. Just curious. 

[netto55]

have had experience in the 86 series tractors and the 66 series tractors. They all showed up to work and had loads of torque to get through tough spots.

Friend's had a Black strip 10055 with 20.8 X 38 tires. It replaced a 1755 Cockshutt. so for the first few years it pulled a 4 bottom plow and 15 ft cultivator. But more land so the 10066 got dueled up and a 28 ft cultivator was purchase. also a 6 bottom 18 inch plow.

a prominent neighbor next door had a fleet of John Deere's and he watched as the 1066 took to the 6 bottom plow.

He had a 4630 John Deere so he came over with 6 bottoms. So every forth round of the field that was 1/2 mile long  the 1066 caught the 4630.

Those 66 series cabs were not that bad . if you were in the field it was best to wear some ear muffs with a radio attachment and you were fine.

These cabs were wind, cold  and heat protectors

86 series were good other than the position of the gear shifter.  Having power and torque was great

i have had tractors with much lees torque and it feels like you are straining with the tractor.

Yes this goes back in time and i almost bought a 4430. But the dealer could not start it in cold weather. The Internationals were great starters for us in cold weather.

Love the John Deere cab but although small there was floor space on the left hand side.

 

[766 Man]

1 hour ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Since this thread is already off the rails anyway, do you know how many hours were on that 3020? Was it in good condition overall? I have heard of this issue, but I have never have had a 10 or 20 series to experience it. The charge pump is “live” on 30 series Waterloo tractors. I know Deere claimed that with a good front pump, clean suction screen, and a good filter that the front pump should still be able to draw oil even when the transmission drive charge pump is stopped because the clutch is pushed in. Just curious. 

  I don't know about that but I would gladly take the 510 hoe as punishment for not bashing JD products here.  Any 3020's the same deal.  Lets all regain our sense of humor here.  

[dale560]

A late model 20 series will do that. The hydraulic pump had about 2 gal reserve in the oil cooler. The fix fo that on loader tractors was jds return into the filter housing. It was supposed to return oil into pump circuit like the ih supercharge line. The 30 series were all direct drive pump. The late 20s had the hyd engaged pto. They would leak sometimes.

[Eason]

8 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

If that's the only example there is I don't think mother Deere lost any sleep.  

What is a good 856??  One that has a turbo added.  Thats typical bash board material like I said earlier.

It was a stock N/A 856. I have to ask this question, Big Bud Guy why are you on here? You hardly ever have anything positive to say about IH.

[Jacka]

8 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

If that's the only example there is I don't think mother Deere lost any sleep.  

What is a good 856??  One that has a turbo added.  Thats typical bash board material like I said earlier.

Never knew of a bad 856 ,a factory non turbo 856 will spit out a 4020 at 3/4 throttle.

[bitty]

1 hour ago, Eason said:

It was a stock N/A 856. I have to ask this question, Big Bud Guy why are you on here? You hardly ever have anything positive to say about IH.

 

1 hour ago, Jacka said:

Never knew of a bad 856 ,a factory non turbo 856 will spit out a 4020 at 3/4 throttle.

I was 15 when I hooked up the 856 to the conservatill and went a round before giving up. I forgot if it was 11 shank but cupped disks , 3" twisted shovels JD 714 we bought new. JD dealership said it should take 175 hp to pull it. 856 was bone stock and we had bought it new 19 years prior to that. It pulled the front end up about 8" off the ground, belched a huge cloud of black smoke and it pulled it although slower than necessary for a good job. 

Dad told me to hook up the 856 if I couldn't get the brand new AC 8050 to start and use it. The 8050 I cranked but didn't see the fuel shut off was on the throttle handle so I gave up with that

[supermpuller]

The JD 404 engine was a dog , no torque and with a JD power , 1 gear to fast and the other to slow. Untill the JD 466 came out JD was way behind on power.

[766 Man]

  I can hook the 13 ft Landoll disk chisel to the 4010 and pull it.  That does not mean I am productive over the course of a 10 hour day versus putting a 150 HP plus tractor on and not have the wheel slippage among other things.  856 a very good tractor and a 4430 can be productive if in good shape and well maintained.  Condition of the rear tires means everything plus type.  20 years ago we put radial tires on all the tillage and planting tractors and never looked back.  

[nepoweshiekfarmalls]

Dad applied anhydrous behind a JD 16' 210 disk with his 856 custom.  He did not break any ground speed records,  but the 856 got the job done!  I could always find him out in the field because the dark smoke plume from the muffler went 20+ feet in the air!

[1086-7130]

Well I'm glad I started this topic, that certainly got off the rails. LOL

[B.B.]

10 minutes ago, 1086-7130 said:

Well I'm glad I started this topic, that certainly got off the rails. LOL

I’ve enjoyed every minute of this thread

[Mark (EC,IN)]

8 hours ago, Jacka said:

Never knew of a bad 856 ,a factory non turbo 856 will spit out a 4020 at 3/4 throttle.

A stock (non-turbo) will spit out a  stock (non turbo) 4020 easly.........folks claiming they will handle a 4430 are blowing smoke.

[cedar farm]

I to have enjoyed this thread and it going off target. As the CIH parts manager I sold a lot of parts for IH tractors. The best things I sold to customers for 86 series was tilt wheel kits, door shock kits, air ride suspension and even a magnum door. We were CIH, AGCo and Ford/NH. Every company had its goofs and industry 1st.

Allis. 1st PFC system. Constant mesh trans. Fill from the ground fuel tank. Reliable power director. Poor decision in the new D series not to have IPTO/hyd in 1958 with a new series. And then still no IPTO on that drivetrain till the end. Hanging on the 426 to long and in to many applications.

Case. Descent cabs. Well written service manuals(needed) Mixed reliability powershift. 

Massey. Who cares.

Minneapolis Moline. They claimed to be "The worlds finest tractors" How can you argue with that statement.

Oliver. Live/pto hydraulics. Not the 1st but close. Electric over hydraulics. Hung on to the Waukesha way to long.

John Deere. Synco-constant mesh trans. Reliable power shift. Closed center hyd. Descent cab and layout. I own a 1970 4020 and the non-live charge pump can be a pain with loader work. Load shaft being attached to the drawbar cradle. Bad idea.

White. Bulletproof drivetrain. But non syncro trans and no trans brake. Good cab and layout. Good hydraulics. 

This is just touching the surface in my 33 years of selling parts and wrench turning experience.

Mike

[hillman]

4 hours ago, 1086-7130 said:

Well I'm glad I started this topic, that certainly got off the rails. LOL

You answered your own question IMHO when you started the thread

You bought a 35 year old tractor 10 years ago. At that age any tractor can grenade any minute. You obviously like the design of the tractor and it has served you well for 10 years! Does it matter what a troll says about them on the 'net? or a local who has green underpants?🤢

[Big Bud guy]

13 hours ago, Jacka said:

Never knew of a bad 856 ,a factory non turbo 856 will spit out a 4020 at 3/4 throttle.

I don't doubt that for a second.  856s had more power to begin with and we own several different IH engines over the years and they are all gutsy engines even the M.  But to say a 856 will handle a 4430 is just nonsense.  It would be much more believable and probably accurate if you said 1256.  

[Big Bud guy]

13 hours ago, Eason said:

It was a stock N/A 856. I have to ask this question, Big Bud Guy why are you on here? You hardly ever have anything positive to say about IH.

I'm sorry if I don't agree with the mystique that IH tractors out pull the competition's tractors that are a size or two bigger.  And apparently you don't read all my posts either.  Just an example go to the construction section and look up my TD 14A thread.