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ICF blocks


Ihfan4life
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1 minute ago, Ihfan4life said:

https://www.amvicsystem.com/products/icf/

Has anyone use these before?

Thinking with the contractors booked out so far it might be a viable alternative then renting forms to do a small project…

How do you protect the exterior insulation from the elements and or high traffic areas? 
 

You fill against it carefully and can use stucco or similar to protect the part above ground. They have plastic ribs that allow you to screw stuff to.
they arent cheap, they have some advantages in that you can DIY without forms, but they require a LOT of bracing, you don't want a blowout.  Rick Kent of VT Doors n More is a distributor for them, it is kind of nice that you can return surplus. They give a nicely insulated foundation. 

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Fairly common here.  I would use them myself if below ground, and for select applications above ground.  
 

To answer you question, here they apply a membrane to the side facing the soil, I think it’s bituminous or some such.  Its like ice and water shield.  There are some paint on coatings available to but I haven’t been a part of that.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, AKwelder said:

Fairly common here.  I would use them myself if below ground, and for select applications above ground.  
 

To answer you question, here they apply a membrane to the side facing the soil, I think it’s bituminous or some such.  Its like ice and water shield.  There are some paint on coatings available to but I haven’t been a part of that.

 

 

I was just watching a video where they were applying a plaster like coating over the exterior foam. 
In watching them waterproofing cement walls they were using a textured membrane and I don’t see why that wouldn’t work?

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2 minutes ago, Ihfan4life said:

Me…

I don’t know about your area but contractors down this way should be able to get to you pretty quickly this time of year providing weather doesn’t hold them up. Most guys try to dig the day of or the day of  but concrete guys have been busy so their minimum charge has been up their 

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Used them a bunch years ago, pretty simple but need good corner bracing and stabilizing if going up more than a couple rows.

We used to put the rolled up tar like stuff under ground. I think anything above ground was up to the home owner. Some put siding all the way to the ground, others did the fake rock or brick.

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We have a lot in Maine some just do the foundation, and some go all the way up to the rafters, they work well and stop a lot of outside noise I looked into them for my new house they are not cheap, but have very good insulating qualities 

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I poured my basement with them 8 years ago and I would never do anything different.  They are very DIY friendly and I just used a bunch of 2x4 for bracing. We did have one blowout while pouring when the concrete truck opened the gate a little too far but after a stressful few minutes and a number of hands we got it shored up. I applied Plastic dimple type sheeting below ground and then just house siding above ground. It was a breeze to finish the basement since it was already firred and insulated.  I used a drywall saw to cut channels to push my wiring in before hanging sheetrock. The ICF are very energy efficient as well. 

 

A pump truck would be desirable when pouring but my local concrete guy has front unload trucks and they worked well enough, just a bit messy. 

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29 minutes ago, ZG6E said:

I poured my basement with them 8 years ago and I would never do anything different.  They are very DIY friendly and I just used a bunch of 2x4 for bracing. We did have one blowout while pouring when the concrete truck opened the gate a little too far but after a stressful few minutes and a number of hands we got it shored up. I applied Plastic dimple type sheeting below ground and then just house siding above ground. It was a breeze to finish the basement since it was already firred and insulated.  I used a drywall saw to cut channels to push my wiring in before hanging sheetrock. The ICF are very energy efficient as well. 

 

A pump truck would be desirable when pouring but my local concrete guy has front unload trucks and they worked well enough, just a bit messy. 

For what I want to do, it might be the best option if I can’t find a contractor and decide to DIY it.

How did you attach the bracing to the forms? I saw where they recommended to pour in 3 ft lifts or less to minimize blowouts. 
Dimple plastic? I think I know what you mean…

The video I saw they had an electric chainsaw to cut grooves for the electrical wiring after the concrete was hardened. 
 

 

45 minutes ago, forwhldrv said:

I don’t know about your area but contractors down this way should be able to get to you pretty quickly this time of year providing weather doesn’t hold them up. Most guys try to dig the day of or the day of  but concrete guys have been busy so their minimum charge has been up their 

 I have a couple of contractors who might be able to do this, I’m just looking at the what if’s.

Although these do look user friendly…

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6 minutes ago, Ihfan4life said:

For what I want to do, it might be the best option if I can’t find a contractor and decide to DIY it.

How did you attach the bracing to the forms? I saw where they recommended to pour in 3 ft lifts or less to minimize blowouts. 
Dimple plastic? I think I know what you mean…

The video I saw they had an electric chainsaw to cut grooves for the electrical wiring after the concrete was hardened. 
 

 

 I have a couple of contractors who might be able to do this, I’m just looking at the what if’s.

Although these do look user friendly…

I like the idea of them they are expensive but you do get a well insulated product when done 

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17 minutes ago, Ihfan4life said:

 

How did you attach the bracing to the forms?

 
Dimple plastic?

I just screwed them right to the plastic strips in the blocks.

 

The plastic I used was similar to this.  It was whatever menards sold before this stuff.

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We used them on our addition in 2017. Some of the cost is offset by the speed of setup and virtually no teardown. Our builder just braced it with lots of 2x4s. He was a little worried about the cement truck getting stuck and having a delay in the pouring, I pulled in with the 245 Magnum with all of the duals on and a big tow rope and took care his anxiety. 😉

I love the finished product, it is so much drier in the basement. We insulated the original basement with 1" foam also on the outside. I used to run a dehumidifier in the basement all summer, have not run it since the remodel, that $25 a month savings also. 

We covered the underground stuff with a membrane similar to ice and water then the exposed part with glass liner material, glued onto the foam. It's been 4 years and I have only had one corner piece come loose, easily fixed when it warms up. 

If I were to do it again, no way I would ever do a block basement. I have fixed enough cracked joints in the block walls to keep me from liking them. 

Best of luck with your project and we all like pictures, just park a shiny red tractor in front of it, or pulling out the cement truck. 

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2 hours ago, JaredT said:

We used them on our addition in 2017. Some of the cost is offset by the speed of setup and virtually no teardown. Our builder just braced it with lots of 2x4s. He was a little worried about the cement truck getting stuck and having a delay in the pouring, I pulled in with the 245 Magnum with all of the duals on and a big tow rope and took care his anxiety. 😉

I love the finished product, it is so much drier in the basement. We insulated the original basement with 1" foam also on the outside. I used to run a dehumidifier in the basement all summer, have not run it since the remodel, that $25 a month savings also. 

We covered the underground stuff with a membrane similar to ice and water then the exposed part with glass liner material, glued onto the foam. It's been 4 years and I have only had one corner piece come loose, easily fixed when it warms up. 

If I were to do it again, no way I would ever do a block basement. I have fixed enough cracked joints in the block walls to keep me from liking them. 

Best of luck with your project and we all like pictures, just park a shiny red tractor in front of it, or pulling out the cement truck. 

You mentioned insulating the existing basement- block/concrete wall or stone/rubble wall?

 I’m working on pouring a new floor in my basement and I would like to insulate the stone/rubble walls but I’m concerned about frost getting into it and moving it

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I had existing poured walls. I ground out a few cracks and fixes them, then I scratch coated the walls. Let that set up, then tarred the walls and stuck the foam board to it, then backfilled. Essentially treated like new construction. We put in new drainage tile all the way around the house along with separate pipe for downspout water also. Dry as can be, but it started out dry already, but was always humid. 

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I just put one together last year. Easy to do. There are some tricks to doing it though. Brace , brace,  brace worth the extra time spent on that.  I used zont, Zuckels with  2x4 wailers and 2x4 kickers for bracing. Find a rebar company to pre-cut  your bar, worst part of the job. I poured 4,000 psi, 3/8 aggregate. 6" slump and plasticizer. It will pour like water. Below grade I installed melroll. It kinda like tar with a pvc backing 36" wide I forget how long. If installed right won't leak. Above grade I used synthetic stuco directly on freshly rasped block. It will look like a concrete wall when done. You can puncture but fairly durable and easy to fix.20200807_095109.thumb.jpg.59680e5e86cba2e045e72fc481f753c7.jpg20210529_091448.thumb.jpg.f81b9d5943fbcefb5a5f608b41853503.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Ihfan4life said:

You mentioned insulating the existing basement- block/concrete wall or stone/rubble wall?

 I’m working on pouring a new floor in my basement and I would like to insulate the stone/rubble walls but I’m concerned about frost getting into it and moving it

I see a LOT of stone foundations spray foamed on the inside, sometimes they use heavy mil poly underneath and sometimes not. I don’t know what criteria is used for poly vs not but it is a whole different world in foamed basement. 

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I never heard of these things.  I just did some quick math.  At 4.50sq ft using them the finished wall would probably be half of what I paid for modern traditional poured walls.  This is assuming I provided all the labor for forming.  Interesting. 

The inability to remove the form above grade would be a major detractor for me.  Whatever finish is put on the outside above grade won't last like solid concrete.

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I looked at them years ago. My concern is termites will tunnel and live in most foam Insulation round here. I ended up having a poured, sealed basement wall.

Basements are rare down here but I like it!

Thx-Ace 

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We are looking at building a lace across town.  Most likely will be a rental. Footers and ICF to grade, then it’s up in the air.  We will run the numbers and see what the cost difference is. Lumber is still crazy and moving, but then again so is everything else.  
 

Years ago I was on a crew putting the heating system in a Boys and Girls home for problem kids.  They used ICF because it eliminated the broken Sheetrock issues, when you Sheetrock over the foam it is impressive. If they want to punch the wall, go ahead, the staff would take them to the doctor for a sore hand and the maintenance guy might need to wash the wall, no problems or repairs.

 

anywhere they didn’t have ICF behind the Sheetrock they had to use vandalism proof rock.  It was like the cement board behind tile with a good surface.  

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12 hours ago, hobbyfarm said:

The inability to remove the form above grade would be a major detractor for me.  Whatever finish is put on the outside above grade won't last like solid concrete.

It requires more maintenance than bare concrete, however with proper drainage an insulated concrete wall should hold up drastically better than an uninsulated one. Considering that an 8” concrete wall has roughly the same R value as 1/8” of glass I think the benefits of maintaining the outside outweigh the disadvantages. 

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9 hours ago, AKwelder said:

We are looking at building a lace across town.  Most likely will be a rental. Footers and ICF to grade, then it’s up in the air.  We will run the numbers and see what the cost difference is. Lumber is still crazy and moving, but then again so is everything else.  
 

Years ago I was on a crew putting the heating system in a Boys and Girls home for problem kids.  They used ICF because it eliminated the broken Sheetrock issues, when you Sheetrock over the foam it is impressive. If they want to punch the wall, go ahead, the staff would take them to the doctor for a sore hand and the maintenance guy might need to wash the wall, no problems or repairs.

 

anywhere they didn’t have ICF behind the Sheetrock they had to use vandalism proof rock.  It was like the cement board behind tile with a good surface.  

Hanging sheetrock on ICF is a dream but the only drawback is everything has to be screwed to it. Foam needs to be cut back for plumbing, eletrical and nailers for attaching cabinets.  Nasty job,!

Outside cladding you can attach anything. Metal being that is 36" wide  won't  fit on 8" firing strips, the workaround is to install OSB.

Between the ground and your siding I used synthetic stucco for you bug barrier. 

Cost wise back when lumber was $300 per 1000 board feet  icf was estimated about 10% more. Today I think it's flipped and icf is cheaper. 

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