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My TD-6 will not start, what haven't I tried?


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Hi Red Power People,  I got my starter refurbished with a new Bendix drive, ( I'd still like to find a Bendix spring and repair the old one), but the problem now is that after having done everything I know to do. The old girl refuses to start.  I'll list below what I have done and if I have missed anything I'd appreciate some one who knows more than I do to tell me where to go next. 

First.  It was running fine  in the FALL, then in December the Covid took me down for a month and finally, after repairing the Starter trying to start it and nothing..  So i messed with it and sure enough got it screwed up.  Fortunately I have the manuals and after much reading I figured out the sparkplug wiring was wrong.  Fixed that, Checked fuel lines, cleaned the gas tank and strainer.  Fuel in float bowl, Fresh gas.  Pulled all four spark plugs and checked gap, 0.023, plugs in good shape, checked breaker gap, 0.013. Checked rotor position at TDC #1 Cylinder. Magneto breaks with a snap at TDC.  Disconnected the Magneto grounding wire to be sure the manifold switch wasn't interfering. 

Engine cranks fine, even doubled up on the battery to get more juice, nothing, all I am seeing is little puffs of smoke, but no firing.  I'm missing something, Any ideas? I appreciate any help, my brain is fried.

 

 

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Low compression?  I don't know much about these gas start diesels, are there separate intake valves for gas side vs. diesel?  If so, maybe the diesel intake valves aren't closed all the way while you're crankin it on the gas side?

 

But like I say, I don't know much about these.

 

Also. Is gas getting into the cylinders?  Spark plugs wet when you pulled them?  If not, maybe a sticking needle and seat.

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Check linkage and start valves for opening. Check main engine valves for sticking. Check starting linkage is moving and letting float in carburetor open. Like other posted said check butterfly operation in intake manifold. Get engine on number one compression stroke and make sure rotor points to number one location in cap. Make sure spark is good.  If all that's good double check spark plugs. You can check gas side compression like a gas engine. Compression would need to be pretty low not to run on gas though. Would tell you if a starting valve was closed if no compression on a cylinder, unless the piston of rings are in bad shape. Check for air blockage in intake system.    

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If you messed with the mag or took it off you could be 180 out. Has to be TDC #1 on compression not exhaust.

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I didn't see you mention this in your diagnostics yet, but have you checked the rotation of the engine while cranking it? 

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Hi Everyone, Thanks for the advice, There were some things I hadn't checked.  Not sure how to check the operation of the the butterfly valve in the intake manifold, Without removing the carburetor I don't think I can check it,  I'm at a loss the figure out how to know if valves are sticking open.  I was cranking it over with #1 cylinder plug out with my compression tester inserted and it blew it out so there is plenty of compression. the engine rotates clockwise, but the distributor counterclockwise. 

Initially I was 180 deg out, but I corrected that with #1 at TDC and the rotor at #1 position.  As far as not fully switch to gas, I have the levers in starting with gas position, if the linkage is out of sync I don't know how it got that way.  It was running fine when I shut it down, by switching to gas and letting it burn off remaining diesel fuel.  I'm beginning to think stuck valves?  I wonder too if I'm getting fuel to the engine? Fuel in Carburetor bowl, but plugs are not wet.  I just may have to take the carb off.  If I do I won't mess with the float. I got that!

I really don't want to reset the linkages.  I saw where someone added a fuel filter between the fuel tank and the strainer. that might not be a bad idea.  DWV Is there a way to check that  the  valves  are opening without taking the engine apart. (don't know where the red print came from?)

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another thought.  I just read where the air through the air filter is diverted some how for running on gas.  The carburetor is an updraft design, but I don't see how the airflow can pick up fuel from the carburetor.  I founds the butterfly valves, I will open the ends of the intake manifold to see if they are working.  This has been a real learning experience.

 

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With hood off you can see the butterfly operation shaft exposed and see if it moves to gas mode and back to diesel. Carburetor will have no suction into intake if not opening to carburetor suction port. Main engine valves would need the valve cover removed. But very doubtful they would all be stuck. If starting valves not opening, no compression would be seen cranking on gas. Lot off adjustments to linkages on those, including to carburetor float closing and opening and Butterflys. So many to other parts that a operator's manual would be best to have.

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I always go back to basics, If you didn't change any linkage than rule it out, I see from sitting mags stop working and have to remove them and test after cleaning 

Make sure you have good spark and good spark at the plug. Make sure your cap wires are in correct direction and order. then you can rule out mag and spark.

TDC must be on #1 compression. Butterfly can stick and valves can stick so you will need to rule that out. 

I want to hear about your spark test? Points get corrosion on them and need to be cleaned more often than I can say on mags that don't get run every day. 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all, its been some time since I last posted.  Took off the intake manifold, the butterfly valves are in great shape, finally resorted to the carburetor again this time, I took it all the way down and discovered a plug in the suction tube.  Reassembled everything, now there is no spark!  I have read and reread the magneto and distributor sections and am stupefied.  Today I moved the crankshaft to TDC on the compression stroke and the impulse coupling snapped just after TDC. Is the distributor out of time_  Is it adjustable_  I can{t find any spark out of the coil at all.  Can the coil be tested_  like I said, everything was running fine when last I shut her down, I messed with the points by resetting them to .013, but that shouldn't have messed anything up.  I do notice that when we are at TDC the breaker is not fully on the distributor lobe.

I have not taken the Mag off, the extent of disassembly has been to expose the points.  I had the wires on correctly fuel now to the cylinders, but no spark.

I really need help!  

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On 2/11/2022 at 5:46 PM, TN Hillbilly said:

Low compression?  I don't know much about these gas start diesels, are there separate intake valves for gas side vs. diesel?  If so, maybe the diesel intake valves aren't closed all the way while you're crankin it on the gas side?

 

But like I say, I don't know much about these.

 

Also. Is gas getting into the cylinders?  Spark plugs wet when you pulled them?  If not, maybe a sticking needle and seat.

Gas is plentiful, NO Spark now, I just added to the post about what I have done.  Thanks for the advice.

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Where is he?

Nothing on the avatar as to his location.

That should be a requirement, of at least a state.

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Says Oregon on his avatar.

DWF

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