Wanted IH Low Ash oil.

[MacAR]

Just want to clarify, I'm talking about the old four cylinder engines, pre 4/560 era. I have absolutely no experience with any of the six cylinders, other than a 706 we had with a 282(?) diesel that would never start when you needed it to. Used glow plugs all year round, even when it was 100* out; best I can remember, dad did use IH oil for it though. 

2 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Ok so back to the oil. 15W-40 is SAE 15 oil with polymers that make it behave like 40 weight oil at operating temperature. Straight 30 is 30 when cold, 30 at operating temperature. Starts out thicker. In the older engines where the tolerances are wider, the thicker oil protects better.

So, if I understand correctly, then the 15w-40 is as good or better in this application since it behaves as 40 weight at operating temp, and as you said the thicker oil protects better, so therefore 40 is thicker than 30. Or did I completely misunderstand? What I do know is that the 15w-40 will find every little pinhole leak in your engine gaskets! Perhaps I should switch back to 30w at the next oil change and see if the leaks go away. 

Mac

[R190]

35 minutes ago, MacAR said:

Just want to clarify, I'm talking about the old four cylinder engines, pre 4/560 era. I have absolutely no experience with any of the six cylinders, other than a 706 we had with a 282(?) diesel that would never start when you needed it to. Used glow plugs all year round, even when it was 100* out; best I can remember, dad did use IH oil for it though. 

So, if I understand correctly, then the 15w-40 is as good or better in this application since it behaves as 40 weight at operating temp, and as you said the thicker oil protects better, so therefore 40 is thicker than 30. Or did I completely misunderstand? What I do know is that the 15w-40 will find every little pinhole leak in your engine gaskets! Perhaps I should switch back to 30w at the next oil change and see if the leaks go away. 

Mac

Why did you not expect to use the glow plugs? They were not a cold weather starting aid the heat from them was the source of ignition  along with the compression. Its almost like saying the tractor wouldn't start without using the starter when its 100 degrees out.

[MacAR]

43 minutes ago, R190 said:

Why did you not expect to use the glow plugs?

I would expect that any tractor that had cut hay from 8am until noon to still be hot enough to start easily after a 20 minute lunch break. If it was below 40, it had to have a little smell of ether. I hated feeding with it in the winter; if given the choice I fed with the Super M since it would start so much easier in the cold. That, and the SM had a heat-houser where the 706 didn't and I don't like being cold lol.

Mac

[Matt Kirsch]

2 hours ago, MacAR said:

So, if I understand correctly, then the 15w-40 is as good or better in this application since it behaves as 40 weight at operating temp, and as you said the thicker oil protects better, so therefore 40 is thicker than 30. Or did I completely misunderstand? What I do know is that the 15w-40 will find every little pinhole leak in your engine gaskets! Perhaps I should switch back to 30w at the next oil change and see if the leaks go away. 

It's not because it's thinner at startup, when protection is needed the most.

And an oil that's naturally thicker cold will probably leak less.

[MacAR]

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

It's not because it's thinner at startup, when protection is needed the most.

And an oil that's naturally thicker cold will probably leak less.

Ah, so copy copy. I think I'll try some 30wt next time then. Thanks!

Mac

[ksfarmdude]

I figured everyone would over analyze this subject lol 

[SDman]

Many engine oils for modern diesel engines are considered Low Ash oils by necessity. Too much ash in the engine oil plugs up the DPFs on the newer emissionized engines. 

CaseIH/CNH still does offer a Low Ash 30W engine oil for "legacy engines" as they refer to older engines. Its a Pennzoil-branded oil, though. Don't think it was on here, but on one of the IH Facebook pages, somebody had the specs. between it and the old CNH/Viscosity Low Ash oil...the Pennzoil oil was actually lower in ash content. 

[Red Tech]

2 hours ago, SDman said:

CaseIH/CNH still does offer a Low Ash 30W engine oil for "legacy engines" as they refer to older engines. Its a Pennzoil-branded oil, though. Don't think it was on here, but on one of the IH Facebook pages, somebody had the specs. between it and the old CNH/Viscosity Low Ash oil...the Pennzoil oil was actually lower in ash content. 

This is exactly the information that I am looking for; thank you SD man.  Do you happen to know the part number of it so that I can order it from our local IH dealer, or do you know the Pennzoil number of it?

[Nebraska1206]

73344254 is the CNH part number I have for the Pennzoil 30w low ash equivalent, available in quart bottles only

[FarmerFixEmUp]

11 minutes ago, Nebraska1206 said:

73344254 is the CNH part number I have for the Pennzoil 30w low ash equivalent, available in quart bottles only

Is this conventional or synthetic oil? 

[Nebraska1206]

2 hours ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

Is this conventional or synthetic oil? 

Conventional, as far as I know.  I don't have any on the shelf at work to look at, myself.

[SDman]

[Matt Kirsch]

17 hours ago, ksfarmdude said:

I figured everyone would over analyze this subject lol 

If you don't want to burn the valves on your 6-cylinder gas engine, you have to.

The problem is virtually nobody else makes a quantitative claim on ash content in their oils. Mostly because it hasn't been relevant in 40+ years. It's only us crazy folks running these ancient tractors that need to be concerned with it.

[ksfarmdude]

On farms today thou really no one is out there hard pulling these gassers around in the fields anymore most are retired or do much lighter work So consequently  there's not as big a problem with oil I have older gas tractors too and I use good quailty oil and call it good, Never had any issues whatsoever

[Farmall Doctor]

18 hours ago, SDman said:

Many engine oils for modern diesel engines are considered Low Ash oils by necessity. Too much ash in the engine oil plugs up the DPFs on the newer emissionized engines. 

CaseIH/CNH still does offer a Low Ash 30W engine oil for "legacy engines" as they refer to older engines. Its a Pennzoil-branded oil, though. Don't think it was on here, but on one of the IH Facebook pages, somebody had the specs. between it and the old CNH/Viscosity Low Ash oil...the Pennzoil oil was actually lower in ash content. 

I'm still hesitant to try it. What will the internals look like after 1000 hours? I have seen the great advantages of the IHC Low Ash 30, and also seen some really gross engines from other brands and grades.  I've been doing this a while and been inside alot of engines. I set the valves on my 504 for the first time and it was clean as new under the valve cover!! Unreal! The old friend that had it since new told me that he had always used Low Ash 30 from IH. That engine is all original. He also told me that his neighbor had the same tractor but refused to use the good oil, and had to get the head rebuilt every few years.

[Jess_656D]

Years ago I worked with a guy who's neighbor was a chemist for blending oil. His position was you can design an oil that has very good lubrication qualities but poor cleaning or holding bad particles in suspension. Or good cleaning but poor lubrication.  The trick is finding a balance..

Aren't most oils now a low ash and I think delo 600 is ultra low ash for a dpf engine.

Won't extended over fueling under a heavy load melt parts?

 

 

 

 

 

[ksfarmdude]

1 hour ago, Jess_656D said:

Years ago I worked with a guy who's neighbor was a chemist for blending oil. His position was you can design an oil that has very good lubrication qualities but poor cleaning or holding bad particles in suspension. Or good cleaning but poor lubrication.  The trick is finding a balance..

Aren't most oils now a low ash and I think delo 600 is ultra low ash.

Won't extended over fueling under a heavy load melt parts?

 

 

Years ago they produced Non Detergent oils for the really old stuff They didn't want wear particles suspended in the oil and recommended taking the pans off to remove the sludge deposits that was mostly on the babbit style engines that didn't even have filters Same oil today used in Air compressors they don't want the comtaminates suspended in the oil 

 

 

 

[DT Fan]

I might know where there is some 10 weight low ash at if someone were interested. 

[TeachersPet1066]

On 2/1/2022 at 5:10 AM, Eason said:

If you need some low ash oil, I'll be glad to ship you a case.

Interesting because I was told at a dealership that it change but then went back to low ash because of the complaints. We bought two 5 gallon containers that day just in case but they had a pallet of it (that had to be around mid November).

Glad to see it is still on the shelves in some areas.

[Lars (midessa)]

Went to an estate sale last week, there was a stack of Texaco Ursa 30wt low ash, in steel cans(quarts). Price of $15.00 per can. Walked away.

[Matt Kirsch]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:47 AM, Jess_656D said:

Aren't most oils now a low ash

They claim "low ash" in generic terms. Only IH's Low Ash oil has ever put a number on the ash content that I can find. People said Shell Rotella T4, so I looked. It says "low ash" but not how low.

[Jess_656D]

57 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

They claim "low ash" in generic terms. Only IH's Low Ash oil has ever put a number on the ash content that I can find. People said Shell Rotella T4, so I looked. It says "low ash" but not how low.

Thanks Matt, I did some checking, my goto oil is Delo 400 15w40. Went Chevron site and ask about there ash content. It's 1% or 1000 ppm ash content.  My 656D is used as a light duty low hours tractor.

From all of this i did some research on oil viscosity and API service ratings and found some really good articles.  If there any interest I'll start a new thread and post links. 

Jess

[Matt Kirsch]

2 hours ago, Jess_656D said:

Thanks Matt, I did some checking, my goto oil is Delo 400 15w40. Went Chevron site and ask about there ash content. It's 1% or 1000 ppm ash content.  My 656D is used as a light duty low hours tractor.

From all of this i did some research on oil viscosity and API service ratings and found some really good articles.  If there any interest I'll start a new thread and post links. 

Jess

I think IH low ash is .5% or 500 ppm writing from memory.

[Jess_656D]

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I think IH low ash is .5% or 500 ppm writing from memory.

Yes I believe your right. I also read the same thing on  yt forum 

[FarmerFixEmUp]

This is a pretty old rundown of CaseIH Low ash. 

The file is pdf and won't upload here. 

 

 

TYPICAL PROPERTIES SAE 10W SAE 30 Viscosity: cSt, @ 40˚C cSt, @ 100˚C SUS, @ 100˚F SUS, @ 210˚F 47 6.8 241 49 103 11.9 588 69 Cold Crank, cP @ -20˚C 3000 N.A. Viscosity Index 115 105 Borderline Pumping Temperature ˚C (˚F) -33 (-27) N.A. Pour Point, ˚C (˚F) -34 (-30) -23 (-10) Flash Point, ˚C (˚F) 216 (420) 238 (460) API Gravity 30.6 29.2 Density 15˚C 0.873 0.881 Zinc, wt. % 0.16 0.16 Sulfated Ash, wt. % 0.5 0.5 TBN (ASTM D-2896) 2.0 2.0