Jump to content

1086 Hydraulics - front loader +


Goose3980
 Share

Recommended Posts

Edit:  Project completed!  We did this for between $600 and $700.  There's a lot of discussion in here but most of the information on how it was done is here.

 

Hello!  Thanks for adding me to the forum.  I recently acquired a pretty decent shape 1086 from a close neighbor, and being in my possession means a few things for it.  One is, it will be the bale loader in the field.  Thats about all the loader gets used for - no snow, no manure.  We have a skidloader for that.  It is a quick attach Westendorf TA-26 so it will come off when not being used.  Two is it will be pulling the row cultivator, and in late season it will be running a small air seeder mounted on the cultivator, so that brings up 2 major hydraulic plumbing issues for me to address...

First off - the seeder - it is a blower motor, and I understand that open center hydraulics aren't made to do that job - but I have seen many people have decent success with it if plumbed correctly.  The seeder it self comes with a flow control valve to route excess flow back to the tractor.  So, my main question there is, where exactly do I plumb that excess flow?  I've seen lots of people say "back into the rear case" but I don't totally understand where that is supposed to be.  Into the bottom?  That doesn't seem like the best place to me but maybe I'm wrong.  Or will it be fine to just send the excess into the remote?  Also I will be installing a temperature gauge, so if the oil starts getting hot I will shut the seeder down and probably go to a PTO driven pump.

Second - and this is kind of the big one for this post to be honest - the loader.  I apologize if I'm bringing up a question that has already been addressed here but I just can't seem to find what I need.  I have a hydraulic joystick valve for it.  It's large, and fairly unhandy, and I would prefer to not run hydraulic oil into the cab.  However, if I can't set up a better joystick without spending a ton more money, that is what I will be doing.  I will spend a few hundred $$ but I'm not going to buy a $3000 joystick.  I see that cable run joysticks and valves can be fairly reasonably priced so that seems like a decent route.  But how do I plumb in the hydraulic valve it self?  I'm totally lost on that one.  As far as power beyond goes - if that helps or is required, I don't really understand what that is all about either...honestly if it is already on this tractor I wouldn't even know without being told what to look for.

We have run this loader on 2 international tractors so far - first was a 706, second was a 756.  We ran pressure from the remote into the joystick, and return straight into the bottom of the transmission.  I'm not really a fan of that because to my knowledge, when the remote lever is pulled and the joystick is not, aren't you deadheading the pump?  And in both of these situations thats what causes problems.

 

I apologize for my vast ignorance on some of this.  Just trying to learn the right ways to do this stuff!  Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.google.com/search?q=ih+1086+power+beyond&oq=ih+1086+power+beyond&aqs=chrome..69i57.22295j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

This link shows lots of hits for getting oil supply and return  for a joystick valve.  If you Google "cable joystick valve for IH 1086" you will get lots of hits for sources of those too.  As far as when you had joystick on 756/766 you wouldn't have been deadheading unless you had a closed center joystick valve.  The seeder should work unless you need hydraulics for something else while it is running, it will stop the motor when you raise the three point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, 801486 said:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ih+1086+power+beyond&oq=ih+1086+power+beyond&aqs=chrome..69i57.22295j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

 

This link shows lots of hits for getting oil supply and return  for a joystick valve.  If you Google "cable joystick valve for IH 1086" you will get lots of hits for sources of those too.  As far as when you had joystick on 756/766 you wouldn't have been deadheading unless you had a closed center joystick valve.  The seeder should work unless you need hydraulics for something else while it is running, it will stop the motor when you raise the three point.

I did read that post, plus the 2 that are linked on that post as well.  I just never could find a real solution in any of them - nobody ever said what they ended up doing.  

 

As to your comment on my previous joystick- that makes sense.  I guess I don't know which kind it is.  It doesn't seem like the hydraulic pump was ever squealing real bad so maybe it is an open center valve.

 

Ok so let's say I get a cable joystick for open center hydraulics.  Does it sound right to plumb it the same way I had before?  Pressure from the remote, and just lock that remote lever back when I'm using the loader?  If so - specifically where should I run the return to?  Is into the bottom my best option?  Could I just plumb the return right back into the other side of the remote?  I'm not worried about tieing up a remote like some of these other posts are.  When the loader is on, I won't be using any other hydraulics.  

For the seeder, if I run other hydraulics while the seeder is on, do you think it will shut the motor off completely or will it just loose most of its pressure?  The main thing would be when I lift the 3pt - I don't want to slam the motor off all at once but if it just slows way down thats fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goose:   Honestly, why complicate things?   My dad had a 1066 with a Westendorf WL44 - we just ran 4 hoses to the back and plugged them into the normal outlets.   No Joystick.   Used the normal levers to raise and tilt the loader & bucket.   Maybe not quite as handy, but sure a lot simpler.   I realize the 86 series levers are not as handy for that as the 66, and you already got the joystick.   (I personally would rather use the existing levers than have the mess and intrusion of the joystick in the cab).

In answer to your question, if you have a OC joystick, then yes, plumb it in the same way.  (Easy to tell, with the joystick in rest position, oil or air will circulate freely from pressure to tank.)    There is no reason to go in the bottom of the tranny, I'm pretty sure there is a fitting up near the top on the back near the oil filler tube somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong guys).  I've also heard of guys drilling  & tapping a return fitting into the toplink plate.   The return could go back in the couplers - its just BETTER if you use a free-flow return (and prevents you from backfeeding the joystick valve or orbit motor too)

The motor will not "hard stop" when you use another function, it will just slow down, or maybe "soft stop" --- ie coast to a stop.   

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually prefer the 06, 56, 66 series hydraulic levers over a joystick for loader use. But, I am used to them. The only other style I found handy was a grecian valve style on a JD 3020 with JD 45 loader.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

for return oil there is a 90 degree fitting on right side just in front of filter cover and below remote valves, put a tee in place of 90 that way youre return oil is not aireating youre oil. ithen make sure u get a open center joy stick valve. for supply u can tee into remote valve supply line  that way thers nothing hooked to remotes

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 801486 said:

 

 

39 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Goose:   Honestly, why complicate things?   ....

In answer to your question, if you have a OC joystick, then yes, plumb it in the same way.  (Easy to tell, with the joystick in rest position, oil or air will circulate freely from pressure to tank.)    There is no reason to go in the bottom of the tranny, I'm pretty sure there is a fitting up near the top on the back near the oil filler tube somewhere (correct me if I'm wrong guys).  I've also heard of guys drilling  & tapping a return fitting into the toplink plate.   The return could go back in the couplers - its just BETTER if you use a free-flow return (and prevents you from backfeeding the joystick valve or orbit motor too)

The motor will not "hard stop" when you use another function, it will just slow down, or maybe "soft stop" --- ie coast to a stop.   

I know it's a little more complicated- but it seems here that we've deducted its not to bad.  

 

Well, thank you gentlemen for your replies.  I will look in to some of this, as far as locations for the return, when I get home tonight.  I really appreciate the help!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, midnightman said:

www.surpluscenter.com has the joystick and valves. not cheap, but not $3000 either.

Would you mind sending me a link to that?  I can't seem to find very many.  I found a bunch on ebay from a company in poland...which is fine, it looks like a good legit company, but id rather buy it in america lol.  Seems a little safer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a thread I asked for the correct location to add the joystick to an 86 series tractor. Sorry I can't figure out how to link to it 

Screenshot_20220119-225014.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for those links.  Those helped some.  I think what im going to do, to get rid of a little messing around and fittings, is just use one of the remotes to supply pressure then dump the return in beside the filter, since that spot isn't hard to T into.  Im glad you guys pointed out that spot because I wasn't sure if that was a return or not. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree with Jeff-C-il. If your not gonna use the remotes for other stuff it would be way easier to just hook to them and keep a big clunky add on joystick and or lines out of the cab. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, midnightman said:

 

They don't necessarily have to be clunky or in the way if mounted nicely

I wondered if you would chime in on that midnight lol.  I re-read your thread after I finally really understand what you did...

So, you got most of your stuff from surplus center?  I put together everything im pretty sure I need there and its about $750.  2 spool valve, the stick it self, 2 cables and the kit to attach the cables to the valve.  That isn't bad, but I found another place in Europe selling the whole kit for $400 or less in some cases.  

I usually don't like trying to buy stuff overseas but this company has a very nicely put together website, and a facebook page they seem to update regularly.  They're called Hydraulic-Master...would love for someone to chime in if they have ever dealt with them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to be stupid - but are you sure its 400 dollars, not Euros?   Most every site I find from Europe gives all the prices in Euros...and I've almost bought something "cheap"....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One thing to watch about Euro made it might have metric fittings ..... We have a few Euro Magnums and the MX has metric threads for the hydraulic power beyond ports etc on the back of the tractor. Made along side of the US version tractor on the same assembly line 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No that's not stupid at all Jeff - that's a very good point.  But yes I am sure its dollars- and either way, euros are actually pretty close to our dollar.  Close enough that 400 wouldn't equal almost 800, anyway.  That's one of the things that made me comfortable with their website is everything is translated to English pretty well, including prices.

 

They do intact use British Standard fittings so I have been looking into adapters before I order anything there.

One other thing- I think this tractors pump has been upgraded.  Unfortunately the mechanic that used to work on (whome we were very close with) passed away last December, so i can't ask him...is there anything I can look for to figure out what size it is?  That will influence the type of hydraulic block I buy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, that one came used with my brother’s loader.   Could possibly be a Prince valve and joystick as it looks the same, but I couldn’t tell you 100%.  I just picked up a used joystick and valve for my 5088 before Christmas. I haven’t had time to figure out what it is yet. Want to put a spool in with a float position for the loader lift before I get to installing on my tractor 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought one of these joysticks last year from a US seller. It does have BSPP fittings but even with six adapters (don't forget the washers!) the cost was still well below what a genuine Prince valve would cost. I get all my fittings from discounthydraulichose.com. They have an insane selection of fittings from NPT to metrric and will make up any hose you can imagine.

Haven't installed it in anything yet. Still trying to decide which tractor to put it on.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...