Jump to content

Found This old letter I wrote Case Corp....and their response


401 N Michigan
 Share

Recommended Posts

That is a neat piece of history.  I hate to say it but kudos to them for even responding.  I can't see anyone responding in this day and age.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think they were only allowed to use 'International' for 8-10 years after the merger, which is why the machines went from 'Case International' to 'Case IH' branding.

 

Quick edit: I actually preferred the original Case IH emblem with both brands logos combined into one.  I don't really care for the current slanted, silver logo.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes,  the sale to Tenneco included agreements on how the names would be handled although the Case letter didn't address it.  International was to remain property of Navistar as it had been the brand name for the trucks for many years and still is.  But it apparently was thought to be important that it remain on the tractors for continuity for a limited time.  Hence there were Case International tractors for a time, then they became Case IH as the IH trademark was part of the sale to Tenneco. 

Navistar was required to remove IH from all their parts and drawings during this time to complete the separation.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What “proof” does anyone have that J.I. Case only had 10 years to use International? All I see is hearsay....

 

on the Navistar side I have articles that say IH name went with Tenneco....but nothing that says “International” can only be used so long by Tenneco.....

 

why would 2 non competing corporations care ....I’d like to see something solid on this...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, 401 N Michigan said:

They removed International before fiat......

Understood, we’re moving into the third generation of farmers since that fateful day and I realize “International” gets lost a little more each time but we need to embrace what they let us have at the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

w

why is it that case construction and skid loaders say case but all the things ih like combines planting tools tillage tools and others that case had zero of in their  line don't  have just IH on them???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, 401 N Michigan said:

This could come full circle and get an employee buy back like AGCO....but unlikely 

My opinion that would be worse than we have it now. Look how many brands AGCO has killed. Tenneco/Case Corporation/ Fiat CNH hasn't killed a quarter of the brands that they have. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Reichow7120 said:

My opinion that would be worse than we have it now. Look how many brands AGCO has killed. Tenneco/Case Corporation/ Fiat CNH hasn't killed a quarter of the brands that they have. 

  None of the brands folded into AGCO had any kind of plurality with the customers.  AC, White, MF, etc. had a small group of loyalist but a larger group that did not believe in any one of the former brands.  Most customers mildly sniffed but no more than that when White offered the American series tractor during the 1980's where the buyer had the choice of White Silver, Oliver Meadow Green, or MM Yellow.  As time went forward the people that cared about any one make retired or died off.  Now what was a real area of concern was the fear when Ford bought NH that Ford would banish NH red and yellow in favor of Ford blue and white.  That aside Navistar more or less named the conditions as to the use of the International name and the IH logo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, randy hall said:

w

why is it that case construction and skid loaders say case but all the things ih like combines planting tools tillage tools and others that case had zero of in their  line don't  have just IH on them???

My theory only but they left IH off of the construction equipment because the name IH didn't carry much weight.  Case despite what some think still carried weight on the Ag side.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard the same story that the new company(CaseIH) got to use the "International" name for a few years after the merger...but would eventually have to give it up under the terms of the sale of IH ag to Tenneco. Also, in 1994, Case was in the process of getting out/away from Tenneco by becoming the Case Corporation; that may have been another reason why "International" was phased out on red ag equipment. If you look at 2 major new products released in 1995, you see that the "International" name disappeared on the decals. Example #1 is the combines...all 1600 series built in 1994 said "Case International" on the side, while the 21xx series introduced for 1995 all said "CaseIH"; Example #2 is the Steigers, all 9200 series were decaled as "Case International", while the new 9300 series introduced in 1995 all said "CaseIH" on the decals.

As far as Case construction, there really was nothing from the Case/IH merger that went to the construction side, so there were really no changes made there. It was all Case before the merger, all Case after the merger.

As far as Fiat is concerned about IH....the company name of CNH should tell you what they think about IH's contribution to the whole picture; other than the CaseIH brand in their farm equipment business and the familiar IH red paint, there's really nothing of IH's legacy in CNH anymore.

With any kind of a merger the size of Tenneco/Case/IH, there are always some winners and always some losers. The fact that Navistar had to maintain legal liability for all of the former IH ag products and was still responsible for the pensions of all IH retirees has probably nipped at Navistar's heels far more than most people would ever think. 10-15 years ago, there was a lawsuit filed against Navistar by a service technician at a CaseIH dealership here in SD that concerned a 3pt. hitch on an IH 1486 that disabled the tech. I don't recall all the specific details on the case anymore, but the technician won a considerable amount of $$$ from Navistar on a tractor that was over 25 years old at the time he was injured. There's a lot of little details in those mergers that can have big consequences for the respective companies years later.

At least with CaseIH, you can still say both companies of the merger are still represented by the brand name. If you look at the Ford/New Holland merger, one thing I can remember was the blue oval Ford emblem being stuck on New Holland haying equipment in the beginning...116 haybines used to have the blue oval stuck on the discharge chute on the back of the haybine. Over the years the Ford name more or less disappeared on New Holland equipment; the only thing recognizable as Ford on New Holland's current equipment line is the Ford blue paint...there are no Ford markings anywhere on current New Holland equipment that I am aware of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SDman said:

I heard the same story that the new company(CaseIH) got to use the "International" name for a few years after the merger...but would eventually have to give it up under the terms of the sale of IH ag to Tenneco. Also, in 1994, Case was in the process of getting out/away from Tenneco by becoming the Case Corporation; that may have been another reason why "International" was phased out on red ag equipment. If you look at 2 major new products released in 1995, you see that the "International" name disappeared on the decals. Example #1 is the combines...all 1600 series built in 1994 said "Case International" on the side, while the 21xx series introduced for 1995 all said "CaseIH"; Example #2 is the Steigers, all 9200 series were decaled as "Case International", while the new 9300 series introduced in 1995 all said "CaseIH" on the decals.

As far as Case construction, there really was nothing from the Case/IH merger that went to the construction side, so there were really no changes made there. It was all Case before the merger, all Case after the merger.

As far as Fiat is concerned about IH....the company name of CNH should tell you what they think about IH's contribution to the whole picture; other than the CaseIH brand in their farm equipment business and the familiar IH red paint, there's really nothing of IH's legacy in CNH anymore.

With any kind of a merger the size of Tenneco/Case/IH, there are always some winners and always some losers. The fact that Navistar had to maintain legal liability for all of the former IH ag products and was still responsible for the pensions of all IH retirees has probably nipped at Navistar's heels far more than most people would ever think. 10-15 years ago, there was a lawsuit filed against Navistar by a service technician at a CaseIH dealership here in SD that concerned a 3pt. hitch on an IH 1486 that disabled the tech. I don't recall all the specific details on the case anymore, but the technician won a considerable amount of $$$ from Navistar on a tractor that was over 25 years old at the time he was injured. There's a lot of little details in those mergers that can have big consequences for the respective companies years later.

At least with CaseIH, you can still say both companies of the merger are still represented by the brand name. If you look at the Ford/New Holland merger, one thing I can remember was the blue oval Ford emblem being stuck on New Holland haying equipment in the beginning...116 haybines used to have the blue oval stuck on the discharge chute on the back of the haybine. Over the years the Ford name more or less disappeared on New Holland equipment; the only thing recognizable as Ford on New Holland's current equipment line is the Ford blue paint...there are no Ford markings anywhere on current New Holland equipment that I am aware of.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wasn’t the removal of the Ford name on farm equipment also a stipulation from Ford motor company? I thought that Ford motor company wouldn’t let them use the Ford name after a set period of time. At least that was my understanding. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

My theory only but they left IH off of the construction equipment because the name IH didn't carry much weight.  Case despite what some think still carried weight on the Ag side.  

What do you mean carried all the weight 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Reichow7120 said:

My opinion that would be worse than we have it now. Look how many brands AGCO has killed. Tenneco/Case Corporation/ Fiat CNH hasn't killed a quarter of the brands that they have. 

The minor AGCO brands stopped being used because they didn’t sell........International Harvester Brand was and (red paint ) is 2nd behind Deere ......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/29/2021 at 6:58 PM, dannyredfan said:

Yea most people just call it case anymore.      Aggravates me. 

Almost nothing aggravates me more than when someone refers to a "Case combine." If you're going to refer to it by only one of the names it should be an IH. What is Case; 45 years or more removed from building a combine? One of my biggest pet peeves!! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/30/2021 at 12:28 AM, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Wasn’t the removal of the Ford name on farm equipment also a stipulation from Ford motor company? I thought that Ford motor company wouldn’t let them use the Ford name after a set period of time. At least that was my understanding. 

Yes it was

I think the period was 4 years then the blue oval was dropped around 95 or 96 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 12/29/2021 at 11:28 PM, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Wasn’t the removal of the Ford name on farm equipment also a stipulation from Ford motor company? I thought that Ford motor company wouldn’t let them use the Ford name after a set period of time. At least that was my understanding. 

Yes, that is correct. The best example of this was the Genesis tractors. The early models(93 through 95 model years) had the Ford name on the hoods; mid-production Genesis tractors(96-97 models IIRC) had both Ford and New Holland signage on the hood, while the later Genesis tractors(98 and newer models) had no Ford signage anymore, just New Holland signage. I realize Ford was not near as major of a brand name in farm equipment as IH in North America, but the Ford name disappeared from American agriculture without any input from their customers. I've got several customers who still refer to their New Holland tractors as "Fords", not New Hollands. Names are like anything else traditional...its hard to change old habits.

I guess I find the whole "brand name issue" about as trivial as the oil threads on here sometimes. I hear guys at the parts counter refer to a Puma as an "International Puma", combines as "Case Combines", Quadtracs as Steigers, the list goes on and on. No matter what you do, you're probably not going to change anybody's mind over what brand name fits with what product...just like what oil everybody is using. Whether you like it or not, International Harvester has not built any farm equipment since 1984-85, sadly. Anybody that knows me well will find that I reference Case as "that four-letter word" in front of my beloved IH emblem. Good, bad, or otherwise, there's not much I can do to change it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, 401 N Michigan said:

The minor AGCO brands stopped being used because they didn’t sell........International Harvester Brand was and (red paint ) is 2nd behind Deere ......

I respectfully disagree on some of the short lines that AGCO killed on they didn't sell. They were specialized so they weren't going to be huge volume sellers but there was a market there.

I'll use Farmhand as a example. They made decent feed grinders and other items along those lines. The current AGCO lineup doesn't cover what they lost in my opinion. Now I realize that next to no one carries feed grinders anymore and the market shows. ( can't find a decent used one to save your soul and a number of them that do exist have no parts support) and new ones that are out there they screw you as hard as they do buying a brand new self propelled chopper. 

There was a Glencoe tillage following around too which AGCO killed.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...