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Steering/clutch issues on IH 3788 2+2


GreenGoneRed
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Hello all, recently purchased a 3788 on an auction and wasn't able to drive tractor beforehand. I got the tractor shipped home and went to drive it and it felt like the steering pump was starving for oil and wasn't pumping any fluid. The steering wheel is hard to turn but the tractor does steer at an idle but at higher RPM's I lose almost all steering and can't hardly turn the steering wheel at all. I changed the hydraulic filter on the right side of the transmission but it didn't help much. Wondering if there is another hydraulic filter I can change? Also there is water in the hydraulic oil but I don't want to change until it drives or until I am changing the steering pump or something since oil is so expensive and I am not sure if thing could be the problem? The steering pump seems to whine or chatter pretty bad while the tractor is running but I don't know if this is normal or not. I don't know if it may be related at all, but the clutch seems to randomly disengage when I am driving it and then instantly reengages and gives the tractor a huge jerk. When this happens the trans lube light comes on so I think that would be the clutch? I am trying to figure out what the problems are before I go carelessly throwing money at the thing. Lucky for me, the TA, pivot pins, tires, and motor all seem to be fine, the transmission shifts pretty good, and besides the issue while driving, the clutch seems to engage fine from a standstill. I am hoping that this is the right place to find help since I don't really know a lot about these 2+2s.  Thanks, Archer

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Sorry I can't really help you much other then there be some water thru out the system. Welcome to the forum and there is alot of guys that knows alot more about that system then I do. Good luck with it.

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As far as the clutch first thing I would do is go through all the adjustments and make sure they are correct. Pay close attention to the dump valve adjustment and make sure that it is free to move on the pivot. What are the brakes like when this is going on? Steering pump which one is in the system? They originally had a variable displacement pump and sometimes those have been replaced with a gear pump. Where is the oil level on the dip stick? May or may not help to bring it up 5 gallon over the full mark, it is worth the try if it is low. Put some gauges on the system and see what you have for pressures. There is no pump behind the MCV plate on the 2+2 tractors but I have seen the jumper tube blow the gasket. The pumps are a little noise on the 2+2 that I am running kind of a whine somewhat like a hydrostat which makes sense as they are variable displacement pumps. Really sounds to me like you may have a cavitation issue going on. The water at this point, I would just crack open each drain plug and drain off what water you can until you get the issues fixed and then replace with new oil. I know there are 4 for sure but in the back of my mind I believe you will find 5 total drain plugs.

In the 12000 plus hours I have been around mine the steering pump has blown apart once, steering hand pump has locked up, the jumper tube behind the MCV blew the gasket, the hydraulic relief valve 113680C91 has gone bad, alternating check valve 142864C95 failed sending pieces into the steering cylinders which required a rebuild. And believe it or not once the steering issue was actually the TA being bad. It has been too long now to say off top of head but the lube circuit is a little different on a 2+2 than say a 1086. TA was still shifting but lube pressures was whacky causing the lube light to come on at times, brakes and steering were both not correct.  In each case it resulted in hard steering, the only one that was vary apparent as to what was wrong was when the pump went because there were pieces everywhere under the tractor. Others took some testing with gauges to determine where the problem was. Get yourself a service manual and some gauges and you should be able to figure it out without to much trouble.

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We Have a 3588 our Family Purchased New,  This will take 2 people to watch the clutch Linkage, With the tractor running, turn the nose of the tractor to the right, While the 2+2 is in Park,  Have the person in the Cab, slowly Push the Clutch pedal to the Floor.

Does the Bracket at the top of the Clutch Cylinder Flex? 

Are you seeing any oil Dripping out the Hydraulic Cylinder?

Is the foot travel of the Clutch pedal equal to the Cylinder as everything Moves, Any Delay?

Can you see if a Mechanic has Changed any positions of the Linkage recently?

As for steering, We have replaced or rebuilt our Hand pump (Steering Unit) 3 times in the life of our tractor, These Hand units take a lot of abuse when a 2+2 is in Muddy Conditions, These 2+2's don't Spin the steering Wheel to the left or to the right like a 1086 does.

An extra Slow or Sloth like movement indicates Oil Leakage inside the Hand Pump,

You Will Enjoy using your 2+2, Think of this tractor as a 1486, rather than a 4 Wheel Drive, You will be proud of Field Performance.

One other Thing about a 2+2,...These Tractors are Notorious for "Bouncing Or Rocking" in road gear,  All 4 Tires will have a mind of their own. these tractors are Balanced with almost equal weight, of front Half & Back half, The More Fuel or weight you carry, the less noticeable it becomes.

Our 2+2 has 18.4 Radials, Great for Pulling Tillage equipment, Excellent Tire wear.

My 2 Cents, Jim Droscha

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Don't believe you have clutch problems at all. Problem is loss of pressure to TA. Believe main filters to be problem. Chattering tells me it is axial piston pump. Starving for oil will destroy pump quickly. Water in oil in the weather we have here will plug new filters with ice crystals almost instantly.

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Thanks for the info guys, I will try to get back to working on it today and will try a few things you guys mentioned. I will have to wait until Monday to get out to the dealer for filters and stuff but I will try to drain some water and pull the internal filters out just to see how bad they might be. I will also check that clutch linkage to see if anything seems off about it. Thanks again, Archer

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5 hours ago, snoshoe said:

Don't believe you have clutch problems at all. Problem is loss of pressure to TA. Believe main filters to be problem. Chattering tells me it is axial piston pump. Starving for oil will destroy pump quickly. Water in oil in the weather we have here will plug new filters with ice crystals almost instantly.

It does sound like it’s starving for oil. If it loses drive completely when the warning light is on sprag must be out 

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52 minutes ago, England806 said:

It does sound like it’s starving for oil. If it loses drive completely when the warning light is on sprag must be out 

I agree. I assume the sprag is grabbing when it starts with a jerk. With hydraulics restored it could work for years yet. Depends how bad the jerking damages the sprag.

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On 11/27/2021 at 10:11 AM, snoshoe said:

Don't believe you have clutch problems at all. Problem is loss of pressure to TA. Believe main filters to be problem. Chattering tells me it is axial piston pump. Starving for oil will destroy pump quickly. Water in oil in the weather we have here will plug new filters with ice crystals almost instantly.

+1. Main clutch is a simple mechanical deal. Only hydraulics involved are in the booster for the throwout. Good old fashioned steel springs provide the clamping force.

All the 2+2's came with the PFC hydraulics, axial piston pump, from the factory. That's most likely what it has now.

You can cheap out on the oil itself but don't cheap out on changing it.

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Hey guys, I was able to work on her some this afternoon, pulled the steering pump suction line housing off and found some nasty filters in there that had the old orange Case IH logo on them, the water had gotten to them and the paper cover on them was just mush. I cleaned the junk out of the tranny housing where the filters sit and installed some new filters in it. I hopped in her and it steered normally! I was not able to conclude whether the clutch issue is fixed yet as one of the hyd. lines that runs from the spin-on filter to the mcv valve blew out and stopped me from driving it any more. I will get the line replaced and go from there. Is that line supposed to be a regular hydraulic line or is it supposed to be a heater hose type line? it had a really soft rubber line on it that looks identical to heater hose. Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it and am glad that I did not get burned as bad as I originally thought on this thing!

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The nose going to and from the spin on filter is just a heater type hose. If you can find single steel braided.hydraulic hose I would replace the hoses with that, it's more durable but can still be clamped with a standard hose clamp. There are three hoses, they go from the mcv to the cooling element in the bottom of the rear pivot housing then to the filter and back to the mcv.

Glad to hear you got it working. You might want to check the oil in the front diff also, there is a dipstick on the top cover in the front left corner. It can be accessed from behind the engine on the left side of the tractor.

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Your CIH dealership should also sell low pressure hydraulic hose. It's made for hydraulics so it wont get mushy over time and has a higher temperature rating on it as well. I bought some for the hydraulic cooler supply and return hose on my 1086 a few months ago. It comes on a roll like heater hose but it's stronger with multiple layers/plies and an outer covering made on it yet it's not as stiff as traditional hydraulic hose. I believe I paid 2.99 a foot for it and it looks better than heater hose, at least to me it does.

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Well i'm back, I worked on her some this morning, the line that blew out is actually fine but the fitting on the mcv was turned out such that the line actually rubbed on the driveshaft in front of it and it wore a hole through it right near the end of the hose. There was plenty of extra slack in the line so i was able to cut the bad end off and reposition it to allow me to drive the tractor. I also changed the hydraulic oil in the trans. After driving it a bit I concluded that the clutch engagement issue is no longer present and that the tractor drives fine now. I also noticed that the trans lube light sometimes doesn't illuminate when the clutch is depressed. What might be the issue here?

Thanks, Archer

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5 hours ago, GreenGoneRed said:

Well i'm back, I worked on her some this morning, the line that blew out is actually fine but the fitting on the mcv was turned out such that the line actually rubbed on the driveshaft in front of it and it wore a hole through it right near the end of the hose. There was plenty of extra slack in the line so i was able to cut the bad end off and reposition it to allow me to drive the tractor. I also changed the hydraulic oil in the trans. After driving it a bit I concluded that the clutch engagement issue is no longer present and that the tractor drives fine now. I also noticed that the trans lube light sometimes doesn't illuminate when the clutch is depressed. What might be the issue here?

Thanks, Archer

Good News, You Didn't Mention the Steering, While Driving Isn't interesting when you steer tight to the right or Left how close the tires get to one another, 

Make sure your Cab doors are Latched while operating your 2+2, A Bent Door will Change your Attitude of the Day.

Are all the U-Joints Quiet?  Keep all the U-Joints Greased, you also have a Dip Stick on the front Axel, these don't usually Leak oil, But Check.

These 2+2's Drive train will raddle at an Idel, Typical sound near the U-Joints, 

While Driving on an uneven Ground Watch the Hoods sections nearest the windshield, How Much movement is in the Hinge Joints?  Most 2+2's have had the New Bushing's Reinstalled, Grease Zerks are there for a Reason.

My 2 Cents, Jim Droscha

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Thanks again guys, I will be giving the tractor a complete, front to back service and getting it fixed up nicely (cab kit, buffing, etc). The hinge points seem to be exceptionally tight and the u-joints are fairly quiet. The hour meter only shows 37xx hours but it doesn't work. Thanks again for the help. - Archer

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