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V8 tractors


Big Bud guy
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4 hours ago, Art From Coleman said:

I thought the Wagners that were built for John Deere came out in the late 60's, early 70's 

 

They did.  If you look at the ad, the JD Wagner had 3,800 hrs.  It’s a used tractor.  And JD more or less had a competitor to the 4100.  It was the 5020.  Now if you want to say that doesn’t count because the 5020 was 2 wheel drive I understand.  Thing is both tractors have almost identical horsepower on the drawbar and that’s if you only compare the 4100 to the pre 69’ 5020s.  Later 5020s had even more power.  Obviously the 4100 would have a slight edge due to the 4 wheel drive but truth is it didn’t not run away from the 5020.  

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On 11/25/2021 at 9:24 PM, junkandcattle said:

The reason i asked about the black combine is that we sold that unit. I couldn't remember the customer name.

What was the name of the dealer that sold it? I thought it was around the Chillicothe, Mo area where it came from, is that right? I have heard that combine is in the Atchison, Ks area, but don’t know that for sure. 

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On 11/25/2021 at 9:15 PM, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

 The Kansas City warehouse was still open back then and you could get IH parts in the afternoon if you ordered them in the morning.

I drove down there once to pick up a 34" wedge lock wheel for my 766.  1978 or 79.

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37 minutes ago, junkandcattle said:

Chillicothe Sales Co. Closed up at the end of 99 I started working there fall of 78

Do you know the circumstances of why they got to sell that machine? I would have thought that a lot of dealers would want to have a chance to sell a one of a kind machine, maybe not. I don’t think he paid a premium for the machine. I was led to believe that he got a reasonable deal on it. He was the largest farmer around here at the time. I think he farmed around 2,000 acres in the late seventies and early eighties, which was unheard of in this area. I believe he had an 1150 or 1155 Massey and a Steiger Tiger that he used to plow everything. That Steiger was unbelievable power here. No one had anything like it back then. He had a 12 bottom plow on the Steiger, which was also unbelievable here. My dad was pulling a 4x16 back when they had a six and a 12 bottom running across the fence from him. 

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2 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Customers are not allowed to pick up parts at the Cameron, Mo warehouse that replaced Kansas City. I don’t understand why you can’t. 

IIRC, I ordered the wheel through my IH dealer (Hatten's in Bethany), and they set up the will-call for me.

Didn't know Cameron had a warehouse.  How long has it been there?

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2 minutes ago, Steve C. said:

IIRC, I ordered the wheel through my IH dealer (Hatten's in Bethany), and they set up the will-call for me.

Didn't know Cameron had a warehouse.  How long has it been there?

I’m not sure, must be getting close to 15 year’s or so. They don’t do will-call there. There used to be a dealer in town that sold Case IH and New Holland that was allowed to go once a day and pick things up. The dealer committed suicide and the new owners of the dealer dropped the New Holland line so now I can’t get New Holland parts the same day anymore. 

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41 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Do you know the circumstances of why they got to sell that machine? I would have thought that a lot of dealers would want to have a chance to sell a one of a kind machine,

It has been too long .I have been trying to remember what the special occasion was for the black combine. Iirc it had a 12v cooler and a buddy seat. A couple of the guys at work made a black toy for the salesman that sold the machine.

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34 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I’m not sure, must be getting close to 15 year’s or so. They don’t do will-call there. There used to be a dealer in town that sold Case IH and New Holland that was allowed to go once a day and pick things up. The dealer committed suicide and the new owners of the dealer dropped the New Holland line so now I can’t get New Holland parts the same day anymore. 

 l lived in Cameron for five years when I was a kid.  Sharp was the IH dealer.

Dad bought Fords from Early's.

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1 hour ago, Steve C. said:

 

Didn't know Cameron had a warehouse.  How long has it been there?

Cameron has been our dealership's main depot ever since it opened. It probably has been 15 years or so since it opened. My understanding was CNH chose there because of its close proximity to both I29 and I35(?). Think it serves just about every CNH dealer in the Upper Midwest west of the Mississippi River. I can remember when CNH made that announcement...boy, every dealer in the Dakotas screamed bloody murder about it. Its actually worked out pretty well considering everything. Our main depot used to be St. Paul, MN(old IH facility).

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40 minutes ago, junkandcattle said:

It has been too long .I have been trying to remember what the special occasion was for the black combine. Iirc it had a 12v cooler and a buddy seat. A couple of the guys at work made a black toy for the salesman that sold the machine.

If you ever do remember or run into someone who does, I would be very interested in the reason that dealer got it. Seems strange that a one of a kind machine ended up in Smithville, Missouri. 

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One particular tractor that nobody has mentioned on here...the 2255 Oliver with a Cat V-8. My Dad's uncle bought one new in the early 1970s; the family still owns it as far as I know. Don't really recall him ever having any big problems with it, but I don't think he used it all that hard, either. 

Did the 2255 Oliver lead to the White 2-180, or where they two completely different designs?

Dad's uncle saw many changes in farm equipment in his lifetime. He started out with horses; he bought a Minneapolis-Moline Comfortractor brand-new in the 1930s; he even bought a brand-new 2188 CaseIH combine just before he passed away. There was an article written about him by one of the farm newspapers around here that I have a copy of.

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On 11/27/2021 at 9:12 AM, supermechanic said:

Is the last photo the dreaded 9 liter?

 only have heard that they were a problem, no direct experience.

Looks like the valve cover has IHC V800 written on it. Interesting topic. Was the Big Mack V8 the 998 cid? Also the 3408 is a much larger engine than the others being discussed at 1190cid. I think it's advantage is it is the same bore and stroke as the 3406, just configured in a V8. It is hard for these really large cid engines to not make torque. The 2255 was a good horse, and it could be said the 2-180 eventually replaced it, with 30 more hp. The 2255 uses the same rear end as the G1355, with the outboard planetaries. The 2-135, 2-155, & 2-180 were all a completely redesigned drivetrain, with inboard planetaries. A 2-180 with a 636 cid na Cat 3208 is actually a torque monster. Once again, large cubes and no turbo makes a lug monster. 

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On 11/27/2021 at 8:57 AM, Big Bud guy said:

A V8 built today for AG wouldn't scare me.  Buying a used V8 like a 903 I probably would avoid just because of the parts situation like you said even though I think the are the better engine.  Course back in the day, V8s wouldn't have scared me either.  903s were good engines all around.  The small block Cats and Cummins I think would work just fine if guys ran them right.  Our Cat 3160 never blew up on us.  We never had a small block V8 cummins but a lot of other guys did mostly in Versatile 145s but also in a some 700s.  Generally consensus was they were good for about 2,000 hrs without any kind of maintenance.  Run the overhead and roll in bearings they would go a lot longer.  But nobody did that.  I still want a White 2-180 for a collector.  

.......i had good long term contracts for gravelling  forestry roads .....roads that were made today  and had to be gravelled  immediately,   often  entailed working through   ''week ends''    preparing    roads for 4.00 am start Monday morning  .....This back in the seventies  and early eighties. One of the bg issues with roading in New Zealand , particularly in winter time is rain,  Rain translates into mud...which in turn translates into  very soft fill.....which in turn translates into traction issues.    Before I won a few contracts, the normal  ''gravell truck'' had a Cummins 350   odd HP engine....powering a British made 6x4  truck....I had Australian  built 6x4 's    powered with the much maligned   555   Cummins V8, matched to Allison  Automatic Trans.  These trucks just   ''pissbowled ''     any of the  opposition   trucks....simply because of the front axle loading, due to the comparative light weight of the 555 engine,...and if one could keep the front axle from disappearing into the mud...you were on your way !!    Always   loaded the trucks'back'' to further minimise the front axle loading......Those 555 engines were running near max revs via the auto.....and performed  flawlessly...in fact the structual  integrity of the truck chassis etc   failed before  the engines.......

Mike

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On 11/29/2021 at 6:49 PM, Injpumped said:

 Also the 3408 is a much larger engine than the others being discussed at 1190cid. I think it's advantage is it is the same bore and stroke as the 3406, just configured in a V8. It is hard for these really large cid engines to not make torque.

I always assumed the 3406 and 3408 were the same bore and stroke like Detroits.   However…… From the Cat Performance Handbook: The 3406 is 5.4” bore, 6.5” stroke.  The 3408 and 3412 are 5.4” bore, 6.0” stroke. 

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good to know, I was also under the impression the dimensions were the same on the V as the inline. So that puts the 3408 at 1099 CID, and the 3412 at 1649CID, still large engines. 

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On 11/26/2021 at 7:56 AM, DOCTOR EVIL said:

6 cyl or V-8, if you turned the pump up a bit on a diesel it really made it seem peppier,  only 10-15% more hp needed.  The 903 in the semi-tractor I drove was only 320 hp, Cummins made a VT-350 350 hp version,  I bet that would have been a much better pulling engine, especially with a couple more gears, my truck only had a 6-speed and 1st was reserved for "special occasions" like sliding trailer tandems and 5th wheels. Otherwise it would idle away from a stop loaded just fine.  Company I drove for took terrible care of the equipment,  and the 903's seemed to survive the neglect. My buddy bragged how his 6V-92TTA Detroit only used a gallon of oil a day. We both typically made the same runs, same roads, every day. Then I told him I put a quart a WEEK in my 903 running around 3000 miles. I don't think he believed me.  His little Detroit did get better fuel mileage than I did.

     Company that Dad drove for had a few 903's they took much better care of them. Dad put over 400,000 miles on a 903 in an early White RoadBoss, think it had a 10-speed. Lot of time parked running the pto to unload too.

    Ready-mix truck with a 208 net hp 555 Cummins with an automatic is just plain underpowered,  it weighs 52,000# loaded,  my normal driving style was drive it flat footed, most driving the gas pedal was flat on the floor.  The constant drag on the engine from the auto trans, and that huge hyd pump out in front eventually caused early engine problems.

   The 2470 CASE I ran several days was a torque monster.  As long as the tach was at 1000 rpm or better it would take off with a little puff of smoke when you pulled the throttle wide open. The White 4-150 with 3208 CAT seemed torquey,  pulling a 14 ft disk. Even pulling the White 7-14 plow it seemed to have decent power.  The Deere 8440 was gutless. The Glenco Soil-Saver was 2 shanks too big, but you drop it in the ground on a headland and the tach better say 1500 RPM or more or it would lug down and stall, and I'm in A-range!  I did have a time or two I had the tach around 1600-1700 and it spun ALL 8 tires a bit before it finally took off.  It had been tuned to 235-240 hp for a while and did not like that at all. Think it was around 210 the year I pulled the Glenco.  Following year he borrowed a 7 shank M&W EarthMaster and I ran a gear or two faster.

Wasnt the Case 2470 a 6 cyl,504 cubes ,about 174 hp on PTO?

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1 hour ago, Pukeko said:

Wasnt the Case 2470 a 6 cyl,504 cubes ,about 174 hp on PTO?

Yes

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