Old M vs the new WD-45

[planejeff]

My Dad told me this story.

Back in the 50's their neighbor bought a brand new Allis Chalmers WD-45 on dual fuel. It was brought to replace the old Farmall M. The father was plowing with the WD-45 and the son was plowing with the M. Each one of the tractors had a front mounted two bottom plow and one in the back. The 45 had a wide axle and the M had a narrow axle. They were plowing up the corn after harvest. The WD had to stop many times to get the corn stalks out from under. By that time the Old M caught up to WD. The son yells to the father "Take that WD-45 home you're in this old M's way!"

Although the M had less horsepower it had more clearance between the plows and tractor. 

[cedar farm]

The Allis 70 series snap-tach plow was to short and would plug in high residue. The later 80 series were better. Most of the 3 bottoms you see for sale everywhere are 70's. 

[DR.EVIL]

My Tractor Show Buddy was an avid AC collector,  no WD-45's, just newer stuff. But at one Gathering of the Orange, guy was plowing with 4-14 Snap Coupler plow in 3rd gear with his WD-45. That's a bottom more than usual.

[DT Fan]

12 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

My Tractor Show Buddy was an avid AC collector,  no WD-45's, just newer stuff. But at one Gathering of the Orange, guy was plowing with 4-14 Snap Coupler plow in 3rd gear with his WD-45. That's a bottom more than usual.

That must have been some good dirt! I can pull 3-16's in third with mine at times but it's too fast. Have always wanted to try 4-14's, it's only 8 more inches.

Yes, Allis plows are not known for their trash clearance.

[axial_al]

My memory of plowing with my grandfathers WD was having the hand clutch snap back into your shin if you hit a rock.  That was their rock protection in lieu of trip beams or a spring hitch disconnect.  Miserable, dirty little thing compared to an M.  They really had a snappy governor though.

[Art From Coleman]

You mock ALL of the collective 'wisdom' shown on The Bash, that states that the "mighty" WD-45 was, and still remains the most powerful tractor ever produced, even outclassing the 8N DORF, the favourite tractor of cidiot "horsey people", gardeners, and wanna bee farmers.

[MacAR]

1 hour ago, Art From Coleman said:

You mock ALL of the collective 'wisdom' shown on The Bash, that states that the "mighty" WD-45 was, and still remains the most powerful tractor ever produced, even outclassing the 8N DORF, the favourite tractor of cidiot "horsey people", gardeners, and wanna bee farmers.

Art, I love to mock that "wisdom"! Like you, I've never understood why people would buy an N DORF when the H, M, and Super series existed in the same time period. I see dozens off them around here; my nearest neighbor has one on his "homestead". Matter of fact, I had to take my 300 down a few days ago and pull him  out after he stuck his 8N and my half-loaded spreader in his barn lot. After the fact, he insisted it was "a darn good tractor"; I replied "a darn good tractor wouldn't have gotten stuck in a cow lot that's not been rained on in 2 weeks". Needless to say, he didn't like that. Oh well; At least he greased the spreader before he brought home. 

Re the OP: My dad always said "there's no replacement for displacement"; It's no wonder those old M's would "walk the dog" against just about anything else available then. The WD is only 226 CI vs the 248 of a stock M, which coupled with the "weak" hand-clutch didn't help it's reputation any. One of the old men here in the county grew up on a WD-45, and he liked it well enough, but I suppose he would coming from an 8N. By contrast, his brother used to tell me "I always wished dad would buy us a Super M" since he hated plowing with it. Most of the old timers that I talk to used H's and B John Deere's back then; there were a few M's and A's too. The really small guys used N's or Cubs or B and C Allis', and some guys (like my great-grandfather) farmed on into the middle 60's with horses and mules. To those smaller farmers, a WD would've seemed a big tractor; but to those who had H's and etc., they were a poor substitute for a "darn good tractor".

Mac

[hillman]

4 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

My Tractor Show Buddy was an avid AC collector,  no WD-45's, just newer stuff. But at one Gathering of the Orange, guy was plowing with 4-14 Snap Coupler plow in 3rd gear with his WD-45. That's a bottom more than usual.

I don't know whats more amazing ⁉️that it pulled 4 bottoms😲or it stayed in third gear😲

[cedar farm]

The WD is a 201 and the WD45 is 226. The 226 was one of the snappiest engine per CID of its time. Coupled with the snap-tach load/depth system those little pumpkins would really pull their weight worth. The hand clutch was their version of "live pto" and ran in oil. Kept adjusted they were trouble free. They ran in oil to allow feathering for use on the All-Crop and Roto-Baler. Feather a dry foot clutch that often and you will soon be putting in a clutch. 

[hillman]

they were a powerful tractor but much like a hotrod and IMHO internals were too light/ Tractor Data has them at 3995 lbs base weight . You pull 4 14s with a tractor built like that and it won't end well. the PTO arrangement was Mickey Mouse💩

Farmall M on Tractor Data come in at 4858 lbs. Farmall H 3875 lbs

[Big Bud guy]

23 hours ago, planejeff said:

My Dad told me this story.

Back in the 50's their neighbor bought a brand new Allis Chalmers WD-45 on dual fuel. It was brought to replace the old Farmall M. The father was plowing with the WD-45 and the son was plowing with the M. Each one of the tractors had a front mounted two bottom plow and one in the back. The 45 had a wide axle and the M had a narrow axle. They were plowing up the corn after harvest. The WD had to stop many times to get the corn stalks out from under. By that time the Old M caught up to WD. The son yells to the father "Take that WD-45 home you're in this old M's way!"

Although the M had less horsepower it had more clearance between the plows and tractor. 

What do you mean dual fuel?  You talking all fuel burner?

[Mark (EC,IN)]

Several observations in my post:

First to the original poster.......what is   "a front mounted two bottom plow and one in the back"?

Also,  in my experience a WD could plow with an "M" as long as they were using the Allis "snap coupler traction control set up" ....hook a pull type plow to the Allis and it was over.

Also,  who ever said there is no substitute for cubic inches ....don't for get a late Deere "A" was 321,  and I never saw an "M" have any trouble hanging with the A's.

And last,  almost every farm around here had a Ford or Ferguson tractor back in the day,  but they had a loader on them to get under the low ceiling haymow ....unless there was hay to rake they never went to the field.

[Big Bud guy]

1 minute ago, Mark (EC,IN) said:

Several observations in my post:

First to the original poster.......what is   "a front mounted two bottom plow and one in the back"?

Also,  in my experience a WD could plow with an "M" as long as they were using the Allis "snap coupler traction control set up" ....hook a pull type plow to the Allis and it was over.

Also,  who ever said there is no substitute for cubic inches ....don't for get a late Deere "A" was 321,  and I never saw an "M" have any trouble hanging with the A's.

And last,  almost every farm around here had a Ford or Ferguson tractor back in the day,  but they had a loader on them to get under the low ceiling haymow ....unless there was hay to rake they never went to the field.

The no replacement for displacement gets overused.  I find it takes extreme differences in displacement when comparing two different tractors.  Also, plenty of real farmers bought Ford N series around here and they had their place.  

[cedar farm]

The snap-tach indeed made it a big-small tractor. I have a pull type #2 subsoiler I pull behind a 1928 D on steel. You can bury the shank and it chugs right along. Hooked it to my D17 S3 and I just spun. And it was not set that deep. I have an Allis snap tach subsoiler as well. I can bury that shank and keep going with the D17.

A Ford N series good or bad, everyone eventually realized the benefits of traction control. And we can thank Harry and Henry for that.

[MacAR]

1 hour ago, Mark (EC,IN) said:

Also,  who ever said there is no substitute for cubic inches ....don't for get a late Deere "A" was 321,  and I never saw an "M" have any trouble hanging with the A's.

This is true; and something that most don't take into account. An M won't have any trouble hanging with an A. If the M has been updated (and most have) it'll out do an A and hang with the G's. 

1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

Also, plenty of real farmers bought Ford N series around here and they had their place.  

Not to get off topic, but would you mind going into a bit more detail there? I had one for about a year and couldn't find anything to do with it other than piddling in the garden and hauling a bit of firewood. The same could be said for the Cub, but at least with it you're not cricking your neck to run the mower or cultivator. 

Mac

[Big Bud guy]

45 minutes ago, MacAR said:

 

Not to get off topic, but would you mind going into a bit more detail there? I had one for about a year and couldn't find anything to do with it other than piddling in the garden and hauling a bit of firewood. The same could be said for the Cub, but at least with it you're not cricking your neck to run the mower or cultivator. 

Mac

Same jobs that we used our 240U for which other then more hp, it had the same level of sophistication as a 8n.  Post hole digger, post pounder, raking hay, running augers, cultivating shelter belts, and light duty work.  With a drawbar on the 3 point it made moving equipment around the yard easier.  Thats just on a Montana wheat farm.  My cousins have three 8ns they used between 2 farms.  One had a post pounder, one had a back hoe, and the other was just a stand alone tractor. You might not have a use for one today and neither do I but 60+ years ago when farms were more diverse and smaller they were useful.  

[Big Bud guy]

2 hours ago, cedar farm said:

 

A Ford N series good or bad, everyone eventually realized the benefits of traction control. And we can thank Harry and Henry for that.

 

 

True.  Mounting plows on the back end of the tractor was not new or something Harry came up with.  ****, even the Waterloo boy company made a few tractors with mounted 2 bottom plows before they sold out to JD.  Traction control pioneered by Harry however did make the whole system work finally.  Also, I don't know how many people know this but Harry was selling tractors with 3 point hitches made by David Brown before he did the handshake agreement with Ford.  In fact, Harry demonstrated a David Brown Ferguson for Henry to show off the 3 point. 

 

[planejeff]

3 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

What do you mean dual fuel?  You talking all fuel burner?

I'm not sure if it was factory for the WD-45. It had a gas tank and propane tank in the front.

[DR.EVIL]

Neighbor's WD-45 had Allis's increased power sleeve/piston package in it, I think they called it "Fire-Crater", same as IH's.  and I wasn't very old plowing in the same land with him, Me on the Super M-TA with IH #8 3-14's, Neighbor with a Snap-Coupler 3-14, and the M-TA was stock, and the 45 was walking away from me.  Neighbor traded a WD for a series 4 D-17 the next year.  Was about 4-5 years later the '17 was traded for a D-19 gas, that thing ran away and hid from the 450. 

   The '19 was traded on a side console 4020. I was really hoping Dad would have got an 806 or 856, didn't take long before the 4020 was turbo-charged.  Everybody wanted to plow in 5th gear no matter what it took!

[Lars (midessa)]

Grandpa had a Farmall M, and a WD(not a 45). Grandpa said the WD was better at anytime it was pto work. M was better at pulling the disk. When the dairy cows were sold in 1959 or 1960, so was the M.

[hillman]

12 hours ago, cedar farm said:

 

A Ford N series good or bad, everyone eventually realized the benefits of traction control. And we can thank Harry and Henry for that.

Its come full circle now hasn't it . 

 

 

 

 

 

[hillman]

 I don't judge a tractor on how fast it pulls an implement or how big that implement may be, They should be matched . Pulling for bragging rights is fun I guess but what matters to me is fuel consumed, repairs and breakdowns/failures and intervals between overhauls. Thats a good tractor! sorry Dorfs and Alley Cats don't compare to red ones

[supermpuller]

There were a few SM around here that had the MW stroker motors in them  , the ran 70 to 75 hp. A local JD dealer was trying to sell the new JD 4010 and  went to demonstrate them in field condition. The dealer made the mistake of going to a old farmer  that had a old M that had every MW  option the MW offered. The old farmer let the JD go first plowing in a half mile field both had 4 bottom plows one on fast hitch and one pull type. The old farmer wanted to check out how fast the JD could go so he just throttled back in 3 gear and stayed  5 ft back, when they got to the other end of the field the dealer stopped and ask the old farmer what he thought of the 4010, the old boy said if you can keep up with his tractor going back to half mile he would trade tractors. The old boy turned his SM loose and beat the 4010  200 ft  back to his barn. The red faced dealer didn't know what to say.  That old SM is still on the farm  the grand kids  drrve it now and then and enjoy telling farmers about the story.

[hillman]

41 minutes ago, supermpuller said:

There were a few SM around here that had the MW stroker motors in them  , the ran 70 to 75 hp. A local JD dealer was trying to sell the new JD 4010 and  went to demonstrate them in field condition. The dealer made the mistake of going to a old farmer  that had a old M that had every MW  option the MW offered. The old farmer let the JD go first plowing in a half mile field both had 4 bottom plows one on fast hitch and one pull type. The old farmer wanted to check out how fast the JD could go so he just throttled back in 3 gear and stayed  5 ft back, when they got to the other end of the field the dealer stopped and ask the old farmer what he thought of the 4010, the old boy said if you can keep up with his tractor going back to half mile he would trade tractors. The old boy turned his SM loose and beat the 4010  200 ft  back to his barn. The red faced dealer didn't know what to say.  That old SM is still on the farm  the grand kids  drrve it now and then and enjoy telling farmers about the story.

I take back my previous post after you told that story😃

[Big Bud guy]

1 hour ago, supermpuller said:

There were a few SM around here that had the MW stroker motors in them  , the ran 70 to 75 hp. A local JD dealer was trying to sell the new JD 4010 and  went to demonstrate them in field condition. The dealer made the mistake of going to a old farmer  that had a old M that had every MW  option the MW offered. The old farmer let the JD go first plowing in a half mile field both had 4 bottom plows one on fast hitch and one pull type. The old farmer wanted to check out how fast the JD could go so he just throttled back in 3 gear and stayed  5 ft back, when they got to the other end of the field the dealer stopped and ask the old farmer what he thought of the 4010, the old boy said if you can keep up with his tractor going back to half mile he would trade tractors. The old boy turned his SM loose and beat the 4010  200 ft  back to his barn. The red faced dealer didn't know what to say.  That old SM is still on the farm  the grand kids  drrve it now and then and enjoy telling farmers about the story.

You forget to mention the 4010 was a gas.