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1486 200hp+ how?


Craigger13
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I am not saying you don't need more power and your chopper isn't set right but I first would look at chopper. I had different brands of pull type choppers.Gehl JD,Massey, Hesston,NH.Two models of JD'S, Two Gehl.But hardest to pull was a old JD and a new Gehl. Easiest was a Hesston, same tractor same crops. Also sometimes crop is just too much for machines 

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Had a customer several years ago with a 1026 hydro that was pushing 200 hp with propane . only used the tractor for chopping, no tillage work. Never really had much trouble with it other than a few pto  rebuilds. He finally figured out, to only start the pto  with the chopper empty. I installed a gauge in the cab for pto  pressure and always kept pressure 325 psi or above. He used to have two plantings of corn. As early as possible in the spring and harvest in July and plant again right behind harvesting. Don't remember what kind of chopper he had but I believe it was a hesston

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17 minutes ago, mrfred54 said:

He finally figured out, to only start the pto  with the chopper empty.

Why was he intentionally shutting the PTO off with the chopper full? I mean, you'd have to intentionally do that by continuing to feed crop into the head after shutting off the PTO on the tractor, as any pull type chopper I've been around clears almost immediately when you stop feeding in crop, and the momentum of the cutterhead would clear any that was left in it even if you immediately shut down the PTO.

Sure, you can plug the chopper and there's nothing you can do about that, but that should not be a regular occurrence.

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I had this on the Dyno a few years back and we were 155hp I believe. We sharpen knives at least every morning. Doing alfalfa and corn (2 row) it runs just fine. We do a little winter rye and can notice it working good but this sorghum is just down right a pain. We have been thinking of getting a larger chopper but that requires a larger tractor and we have also thought maybe an "affordable" self propelled but worry we are gonna buy someone else's wore out problems. 

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On 11/8/2021 at 10:23 PM, Craigger13 said:

This is being used to pull a new Holland 900 chopper chopping forage sorghum that's been laid down with a discbine. We did it this year in low 1st and still had places where she brought her to her knees. Don't necessarily care of we go any faster would just like to not worry about plugging/killing it.

How large is the forage sorghum and what are you mowing it with? Are you just chopping the width of the mower swath or merging two swaths? 12 knives in the 900? What length of cut is the 900 set at? 

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1 hour ago, 7and8and1456 said:

How large is the forage sorghum and what are you mowing it with? Are you just chopping the width of the mower swath or merging two swaths? 12 knives in the 900? What length of cut is the 900 set at? 

This year it got hit by army worms so was only 4ft tall but was planted pretty heavy. It will be 6-7ft normally. Only chopping a single swath, about a 13ft cut. All 12 knives and length of cut is pretty short. 

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3 hours ago, Craigger13 said:

I had this on the Dyno a few years back and we were 155hp I believe. We sharpen knives at least every morning. Doing alfalfa and corn (2 row) it runs just fine. We do a little winter rye and can notice it working good but this sorghum is just down right a pain. We have been thinking of getting a larger chopper but that requires a larger tractor and we have also thought maybe an "affordable" self propelled but worry we are gonna buy someone else's wore out problems. 

We use to do our own chopping on corn or haylage years ago but now its done by a neighbor that custom chops big John Deere cutter with rotary head that can chop any which a way since we plant feed with out Air seeder now , He can chop 20 acres an hour do it 5 times faster than we ever could and cost is comparable to labor upkeep on our own equipment now I'd never go back to doing it myself 

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50 minutes ago, Craigger13 said:

This year it got hit by army worms so was only 4ft tall but was planted pretty heavy. It will be 6-7ft normally. Only chopping a single swath, about a 13ft cut. All 12 knives and length of cut is pretty short. 

We use 6 knives in our FP240 and still give our 190 hp 3588 a decent workout in sorgum sudan grass hybrid. When we got to it this year it was around 12 foot tall, we cut ours with a 13 ft discbine Dcx 131 caseih and managed to plug it this year a couple times which hasn't happened before.

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On 11/8/2021 at 12:50 PM, Super A_sepa said:

PTO will last for some time, not as long as lower power but if it's right it'll last awhile. At 200 hp you might find the next weakest link, ipto gear or upper ipto shaft likely, or rivets in pressure plate.    Chopper shouldn't be a start-stop operation to slip it excessively and should be a fairly even feeding. 

If you tear up the lower PTO gear there is a heavier duty than OE gear available.

 

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Thinking about this, the only thing you'd be able to do in a reasonable amount of time is "turn in the smoke screw." What exactly that involves is not part of my knowledge, but I do know the best way to do it is using a dyno.

Anything else you are going to be searching far and wide parts and taking the tractor offline, while the sorghum is laying there in the field.

Do you have another tractor, a driver, a stout chain, and an old car tire? You can free up the HP that the 1486 is using to pull the chopper and wagon, and even impart some of the towing tractor's HP on the 1486 to run the chopper by keeping the chain tight.

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12 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Why was he intentionally shutting the PTO off with the chopper full? I mean, you'd have to intentionally do that by continuing to feed crop into the head after shutting off the PTO on the tractor, as any pull type chopper I've been around clears almost immediately when you stop feeding in crop, and the momentum of the cutterhead would clear any that was left in it even if you immediately shut down the PTO.

Sure, you can plug the chopper and there's nothing you can do about that, but that should not be a regular occurrence.

He would plug the chopper and try unplugging it with the pto. He was not shutting it off intentionally

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Have quite a collection of 14's. Been running them for years, and none of them run less than 200 HP. Have one 1486 that pulls the chopper that has a 466. Have had it on the dyno at the IH dealer. They had it to 335 before it started to smoke, wouldn't run it any harder cause he said the PTO would never hold. For all the 14 nay sayers on high horse power, it's like anything. Drive it with a brain in your head. Run it like a Big Bud and you will wreck it. Run it like a high HP 14 and you don't have to wreck it. Get really tired of people who continually bash a 14 and really don't know a thing about them. So to answer the original posters question, just turn it up to start with. 200 is easy to get without spending money or changing parts.

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6 hours ago, INTERNATIONAL 1466 said:

Have quite a collection of 14's. Been running them for years, and none of them run less than 200 HP. Have one 1486 that pulls the chopper that has a 466. Have had it on the dyno at the IH dealer. They had it to 335 before it started to smoke, wouldn't run it any harder cause he said the PTO would never hold. For all the 14 nay sayers on high horse power, it's like anything. Drive it with a brain in your head. Run it like a Big Bud and you will wreck it. Run it like a high HP 14 and you don't have to wreck it. Get really tired of people who continually bash a 14 and really don't know a thing about them. So to answer the original posters question, just turn it up to start with. 200 is easy to get without spending money or changing parts.

Right. The OP wants to know HOW.

So far it's been a lot of discussion on why you shouldn't, what the OP is doing wrong, or that it can be done no problem, but nobody is saying which screw(s) to turn in which direction and how much to turn it to increase the horsepower on the tractor.

I personally don't know because I've run into the same issue. Lots of sizzle but no bacon. Nobody wants to divulge HOW to do it. Either nobody really knows or they're so afraid of people coming back on them because they turned the smoke screw in too much and broke the tractor, that they won't say...

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22 hours ago, Craigger13 said:

I had this on the Dyno a few years back and we were 155hp I believe. We sharpen knives at least every morning. Doing alfalfa and corn (2 row) it runs just fine. We do a little winter rye and can notice it working good but this sorghum is just down right a pain. We have been thinking of getting a larger chopper but that requires a larger tractor and we have also thought maybe an "affordable" self propelled but worry we are gonna buy someone else's wore out problems. 

 I have a 900 new hollland as well. 

You said you dynoed it a while back it was at 155. I can believe it might be underpowered for what your trying to do. Turning up the pump would sure be easy enough to do. Talk to a pump shop. They could tell you how to do it. I think 175 to 180 horse would make a big difference. But so would cutting with a 10 foot mower. Just a thought. 

You can always set the pump back. But changing things on the motor seems like a big commitment to me. 

 

 

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There's few things to consider before going hogwild need to know the current power output of the tractor and what condition the injector pump and injectors are in ,Its easy turning screws to get more power , the governor plays a very important part in keeping that power ready I've seen tractors fall flat even thou fuel delivery is high , The fuel delivery adjustment screw I adjusted for alittle more power is under the top rectangular cover on the ambac pumps been years since I did that not sure which way to turn its anymore but maybe someone on here can elaborate further

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I wouldn't go hog wild either. I dont think adding 20 to 25 horse if its at 155 is going wild. Maybe he has other issues. Im assuming that he doesn't. I was just throwing out a suggestion. 

You suggested hiring someone and how great that is. Ive been down that road. That didn't get it done when I wanted. Just when they were dam good and ready to do it. So I bought a chopper. I enjoy having my own. It does take time getting everything ready however. It gives my 5288 something to do

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:
On 11/10/2021 at 7:33 AM, Craigger13 said:

I had this on the Dyno a few years back and we were 155hp I believe. We sharpen knives at least every morning. Doing alfalfa and corn (2 row) it runs just fine. We do a little winter rye and can notice it working good but this sorghum is just down right a pain. We have been thinking of getting a larger chopper but that requires a larger tractor and we have also thought maybe an "affordable" self propelled but worry we are gonna buy someone else's wore out problems. 

1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Right. The OP wants to know HOW.

So far it's been a lot of discussion on why you shouldn't, what the OP is doing wrong, or that it can be done no problem, but nobody is saying which screw(s) to turn in which direction and how much to turn it to increase the horsepower on the tractor.

I personally don't know because I've run into the same issue. Lots of sizzle but no bacon. Nobody wants to divulge HOW to do it. Either nobody really knows or they're so afraid of people coming back on them because they turned the smoke screw in too much and broke the tractor, that they won't say...

 

@Craigger13

may i offer this, before you go throwing $$$ and time at a 200hp 1486 - find a neighbor or someone/rent a tractor with 200hp at the pto and see what that is like, it also has a lot to do with the stuff you are chopping - is it totally dried, been frozen, semi wet, 100bu corn or 200bu corn you are chopping, so many variables not to mention the tractor and speed itself. 

I wouldnt start doing anything until I really knew what it was going to be like on a 200hp tractor in the fields/corn you are in. way to many variables to just say 200hp is going to be what i need. 

some would say you need more than 200hp on a 900,  just like a guy might say 80pto hp is plenty for a 15' batwing - REALLY well come on over I will show you 80hp isnt depending on the situation/field etc.............Ive got stuff I mow that will put 150 hp down in a hurry on a 15 footer. 

 

@Matt Kirsch

i have no idea either but from past experience extreme has its costs. Many have said it all comes at a cost. my observations would be that IH went with 466 to get more HP and didnt stick with the 436. it appears the 1486/436 was 145 pto hp stock from tractor data - 200hp is roughly a 40% increase 

some have eluded to things they have done and its not just as simple as turning up a pump, you are going to be pushing other things at a 40% increase keep that in mind. Did IH overengineer everything for a 40% increase for long duty cycles? 

200 - 145= 55

(145 × p) / 100 = 55
((145 × p) / 100) × 100 = 55 × 100
145p = 5500
145p / 145 = 5500 / 145
p = 37.9310344827586
Percent Increase ≈ 37.931

 

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On 11/10/2021 at 10:01 AM, Craigger13 said:

This year it got hit by army worms so was only 4ft tall but was planted pretty heavy. It will be 6-7ft normally. Only chopping a single swath, about a 13ft cut. All 12 knives and length of cut is pretty short. 

We use a Deere 3975 pull type here. We have a three row head on it for corn. When we have made 13’ windrows and chopped forage sorghum in the past and it has pulled much harder than the three rows of corn. You can always go slower I guess, but we have never had less than a 300hp tractor on the chopper and that sorghum is a big load. I’m not a 1486 expert, but I think a 13’ swath is too much. 13’ of good sorghum would pull as hard as a 4 row head in good corn. 

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2 hours ago, tractorholic said:

I wouldn't go hog wild either. I dont think adding 20 to 25 horse if its at 155 is going wild. Maybe he has other issues. Im assuming that he doesn't. I was just throwing out a suggestion. 

You suggested hiring someone and how great that is. Ive been down that road. That didn't get it done when I wanted. Just when they were dam good and ready to do it. So I bought a chopper. I enjoy having my own. It does take time getting everything ready however. It gives my 5288 something to do

We made to decision years ago to have it custom chopped by our neighbor smartess move ever for us didn't need the aggravation of upkeep and time maintaining additional equipment as for timing he's jonnie on the spot for getting there when we need him

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8 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Right. The OP wants to know HOW.

So far it's been a lot of discussion on why you shouldn't, what the OP is doing wrong, or that it can be done no problem, but nobody is saying which screw(s) to turn in which direction and how much to turn it to increase the horsepower on the tractor.

I personally don't know because I've run into the same issue. Lots of sizzle but no bacon. Nobody wants to divulge HOW to do it. Either nobody really knows or they're so afraid of people coming back on them because they turned the smoke screw in too much and broke the tractor, that they won't say...

As far as how I can say we had a 5088 and before i took over this position the guy before me sent it to a dealer to have a reman engine installed because of water in the oil, they said hey lets see what it will make on the dyno before we swap it pulled 211 and they stopped there, it had the timing turned up a few degrees a reman pump from spencer for a 5288 which they claimed was set at 185 and really nothing else was done, but i can tell you the stock turbo had been a little hot in the past by the tips of the fins being gone 

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