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WD-9 / 4-71 Detroit conversion


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42 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

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This is an experimental tractor put together by JD in the 50s.  Case LA industrial with a 110 hp 4-71.  They tested this tractor not too far away from here back in the mid 50s.

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The  guy here who custom combined, farmed and then the family bought the local Ihc dealer owner for a couple years. He put a Cummins in a LA case back when. It was setting in Trees at farm when his son had sale and left.

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I have no love for the old kerosene shovels. My old boss always said that if you don't see oil dripping off a Detroit, you better pour some in it. And the few times I have spent operating something with DD power have been hot & noisy days not getting a whole lot done.

However I do have some fond tech school memories building them. I was one of the last classes where everyone had to assemble a -71 series and dyno it. We had crates upon crates of military surplus parts in the back room. It was interesting how machining tolerances were poor, so we had to test fit liners in the blocks until you had a set that fit properly. We had to refurbish our own cylinder heads and build our own injectors, over all, very good teaching tools. My 6V71 was to have 160 hp, we were not allowed to go outside a 10% window of target power. My first try, I came up 20hp short.... beat my head against the wall for a couple days until realizing the fan I was required to install meant I had to use the next size up injection parts. Built another set of injectors and made 167 hp for a passing grade.

A fellow tech at work went to the same school a few yrs later than me. Said his class hauled all the DD stuff out, went on a truck to the scrap yard. I guess they kept one or two to look at, but spent no time working on them.

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I know they have their downsides, noise, leaking, etc., but unlike so many other engines up through the 60's, you can still get inexpensive parts for them.  I have a HD 9 AC bulldozer with a low head 4-71 in it.  Not the perfect dozer engine but I can get parts for it, whereas with later AC dozers with the Buda parts are very scarce for.

IH dozers from the period suffer from the same parts problem.

They are pretty remarkable engineering for when they were designed and incredibly durable.

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I have owned 2 different 6-71s in IH single axle trucks.  One 6v53 in a ford tandem (worthless for power), 2 different 3-53s in log skidders.  They all started and worked excellent.  Never down for maintenance.  The only complaints were obviously the noise and you ran them full bore, no half throttle ever. Started well in winter too. The noise sounds great for 5 minutes then it wears on you. 

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16 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

That’s the first I’ve heard of that.  I know Detroit conversions for Case LAs were somewhat common.  But they had the drivetrain that could take it too.  

I read once John Deere used a Case LA during the 2 cyl era to test how much power you could actually put to the ground in a 2WD tractor

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55 minutes ago, cedar farm said:

I read once John Deere used a Case LA during the 2 cyl era to test how much power you could actually put to the ground in a 2WD tractor

The tractor you are referring to I posted pics in this thread.  

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21 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

The tractor you are referring to I posted pics in this thread.  

Whoops. Missed that. Sorry. It was in either Green magazine or Two Cyl one time.

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11 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

Those were the best DD made for over the road use 

I assume you mean of the 2 strokes.  I haven’t been around too many screaming DDs but this one actually impressed me the first time I drove it.  It has power and will beat our KW with a 425 hp 3406B off the line easy.  

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1 hour ago, Big Bud guy said:

I assume you mean of the 2 strokes.  I haven’t been around too many screaming DDs but this one actually impressed me the first time I drove it.  It has power and will beat our KW with a 425 hp 3406B off the line easy.  

I will agree with you there the DD got replaced with CATs were I was working 

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18 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

18223361-A270-48E1-9B1F-C401DA801A34.jpeg

73957E2D-AA8F-4843-B725-F855FF786973.jpeg
 

This is an experimental tractor put together by JD in the 50s.  Case LA industrial with a 110 hp 4-71.  They tested this tractor not too far away from here back in the mid 50s.

8C2C39AD-1D03-4517-BF5E-E2D6C697E2C3.jpeg

E8C20C4C-577C-4B3E-A03F-569B1D5C0B40.jpeg

WOW,  I thought Deere won the war to produce the absolutely worst possible machine in the world to run with the R diesel.  My ears ring 24-7-365 now thanks to the short time I spent on one at 10 yrs old. I'd spend 4-5 hours on it and my ears would ring for 10 hours afterwards.  And then BIG BUD posts pictures of Deere's new Worst Ever creation, a Detroit dropped into a Case.

   Yes, personal protective equipment has advanced greatly since 1960. There were hard hats, leather gloves and aprons, safety glasses, even tinted lenses for welding, dust masks for keeping dust out of your lungs,  ear protection was not on anyone's radar till later, much later. First pair of muffs I remember was given to me to punch holes in parts at IH East Moline, I was punching a 3/4" hole in half inch steel with a punch press capable of punching a 1/2" hole in 1/4" steel, I had to pre-heat each piece to red hot.

     The company I drove for had one 8V-92 435 Detroit, in a TransStar 2 with 9 speed. It was driven by the one guy that had to give me a Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down to drive.  He didn't know my driving history. We swapped places at the toll booth on Illinois Interstate 88 by Decalb, Ill. Going home loaded, like most Detroits I shifted up at wide open rpm, few minutes later my passenger asks how fast I'm going, I say, Shows 75. He suggests I get a little closer to 55, which I do,  almost felt I should drop a gear. Biggest complaint about the 8V-92 was it was thirsty, about 3 mpg, company turned it down to about 330-340 hp, really slowed it down and still poor mpg.  After about 10 hours in a Detroit powered truck it was REALLY hard to stay awake, something Cummins Powered, not so much. Only thing we had CAT powered was a couple 3208 powered trucks, two S-1700 straight trucks and 2 S1900 single axle tractors. They very seldom ever went out of town. The tractors had steel blocks set between the rear axle and frame so They could pull fully loaded trailers and drop them so a tandem tractor could get under them. The couple days I drove that job I had to bobtail over lots of railroad tracks. I can't believe those tractors survived that.

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56 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

The couple days I drove that job I had to bobtail over lots of railroad tracks.

I hope you have a pilot's license because you were spending more time in the air than on the ground!

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My best experience with a Detroit was in the USN where all small craft boats were powered by Detroits also the emergency gensets. The boats were layover 6-71s' the gensets were back to back 8V71s' pushing a 350 KW genset.  The boats were how we got from ships to liberty ports and the gensets' provided power when in strange  places OR getting the boiler/steam turbines fired up if we lost steam power. The USN did not tolerate leaks so I was never  around a leaking Detroit.  Everything else that produced power could be dead but Detroits always saved our bacon.    I still have a Detroit. It is an old ( I remember it as a 1955 model) 3-71 lowdeck boat motor. Heat exchanger cooled with a hydraulic boat F/R gear box. The old boat is gone but the 3-71 still sits with its batteries charged (?) and looking runable. Sort of a monument to times passed.  I know of no other model that has a longer installed model run!! 1938 to 2000 is a long time in mechanical model run time.

 

 

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On 10/31/2021 at 9:32 AM, dale560 said:

The  guy here who custom combined, farmed and then the family bought the local Ihc dealer owner for a couple years. He put a Cummins in a LA case back when. It was setting in Trees at farm when his son had sale and left.

This reminded me I read somewhere back in the late 30s Case experimented with Cummins engines in L tractors.  Seems like the L-LA series were like the JD 5020 meaning they were over built making them popular for higher hp engine transplants.

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4 hours ago, oleman said:

My best experience with a Detroit was in the USN where all small craft boats were powered by Detroits also the emergency gensets. The boats were layover 6-71s' the gensets were back to back 8V71s' pushing a 350 KW genset.  The boats were how we got from ships to liberty ports and the gensets' provided power when in strange  places OR getting the boiler/steam turbines fired up if we lost steam power. The USN did not tolerate leaks so I was never  around a leaking Detroit.  Everything else that produced power could be dead but Detroits always saved our bacon.    I still have a Detroit. It is an old ( I remember it as a 1955 model) 3-71 lowdeck boat motor. Heat exchanger cooled with a hydraulic boat F/R gear box. The old boat is gone but the 3-71 still sits with its batteries charged (?) and looking runable. Sort of a monument to times passed.  I know of no other model that has a longer installed model run!! 1938 to 2000 is a long time in mechanical model run time.

 

 

That’s a point I never thought of.... a Detroit doesn’t have to leak, if the owner has the ambition to make it so... Nobody likes Motor Carrier Enforcement; but the sad truth is there are drivers out there that have brakes out of adjustment on five wheels, and a hub seal leaking on the sixth one. Those trucks need to be off the road. So they cry and M-F the inspector because they got a citation. Same with certain Detroit operators; they whine to anyone who will listen about greasy engine bays, yet they can’t be bothered to pick up a Phillips head screw driver and tighten the valve cover. It’s all maintenance practices, the level of which determines success or failure.

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On 10/30/2021 at 8:53 PM, 885 said:

A little off topic but how does a 4-71 compare to a d282

The 282 is quieter.

Mike

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12 hours ago, Binderoid said:

That’s a point I never thought of.... a Detroit doesn’t have to leak, if the owner has the ambition to make it so... Nobody likes Motor Carrier Enforcement; but the sad truth is there are drivers out there that have brakes out of adjustment on five wheels, and a hub seal leaking on the sixth one. Those trucks need to be off the road. So they cry and M-F the inspector because they got a citation. Same with certain Detroit operators; they whine to anyone who will listen about greasy engine bays, yet they can’t be bothered to pick up a Phillips head screw driver and tighten the valve cover. It’s all maintenance practices, the level of which determines success or failure.

I am told that if you use the correct sealer with the factory gaskets they don't leak

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The design of the 2 stroke has a pressurized crank case that 4 strokes don't have. A turbo will have full turbo boost pressure in the crank case.  That certainly would tend to create more leaks but those leaks can be contained with proper maintenance.  Our old 3-71 has drain lines for the air box exiting through vents that are open to the atmosphere, excessive blow by will create overnight drips when parked. Newer ones have a blow by oil catch and separate system. I am sure the turbo at 30 PSI of boost aggravates the situation. Our 3-71 blower is only about 5 PSI of boost and actually drips very little.  1500 pounds and 80 continuous HP, when it doesn't  run it is still good ballast for a boat.

 

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Don’t ever call a locomotive engine a Detroit screamer to an engineer. Even though that is exactly what they are. EMD is big boys DD. All made by GM at one time 

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3 hours ago, smfarms said:

Don’t ever call a locomotive engine a Detroit screamer to an engineer. Even though that is exactly what they are. EMD is big boys DD. All made by GM at one time 

I was on an LST for a year or so. That old ship had 4 EMD's side by side in the engine room.  Two engines on a single combining gear box driving a single propeller per side.  Those were the largest engines and the only diesel powered ship I have ever been around. They never screamed they bellowed when loaded.  The old BUDA gensets had been replaced with 8V71 100 KW gensets.  Would have made a commercial for the Detroit Diesel division of GM at the time!

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We were around Detroit’s on haygrinders here at farm. I even worked on a few and overhauled 2 of them. They actually ran two.  A 300 horse 6v92 on a hay grinder and a 2 71 in a allis cat. The Detroit’s would stay sealed up in blower and rings were good but if blower leaked a bit or blowby engine oil pooled and dripped out the side. Takes a good person to make a Detroit sound li,e a Detroit.  You have to set all the components of an injection pump on the engine. Gov, gov buffer, inj height timing , rack synchronize and all that make for a good Detroit. 

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3 hours ago, dale560 said:

We were around Detroit’s on haygrinders here at farm. I even worked on a few and overhauled 2 of them. They actually ran two.  A 300 horse 6v92 on a hay grinder and a 2 71 in a allis cat. The Detroit’s would stay sealed up in blower and rings were good but if blower leaked a bit or blowby engine oil pooled and dripped out the side. Takes a good person to make a Detroit sound li,e a Detroit.  You have to set all the components of an injection pump on the engine. Gov, gov buffer, inj height timing , rack synchronize and all that make for a good Detroit. 

But when they are set it is mechanical bliss!!!

 I knew a fellow that was not just good, but truly GREAT with Detroits.

Rest In Peace Renè, Rest In Peace.

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great video Art.......but I reckon  that the drive train  , run at that speed, would suffer.....

...I think the  HD9 had the inline  4 /71   Detroit   Engine......so a massive jump in   available HP ...and torque

...I guess by the look of the Chevrolet...the film was taken awhile back.....

...wouldn't   hear the old ''hayseed''    music   to well in that cab...

Mike

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