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826 oil pressure issues


JaredT
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I had a thread on this about a year ago, never had much time to work on this, things have been ridiculously busy. 70 to 80 hour weeks and farming besides, doesnt leave me much time for this stuff.

Anyhow, 826 sat for 17 years with water in the oil because of a bad oil cooler, not by my hands was this left torn apart.  Family friend is a mechanic. We pulled the engine, took it to him and he went through it. Injectors, injection pump, head and block magnafluxed and machines if necessary, crank ground, rod and main bearings matched to ground crank, pistons rings, sleeves all done to this engine. I am sure I am forgetting a few things. 

When reinstalled on the tractor and running, I never like the oil pressure.  The light never comes on, but I added a gauge and actually a second one to verify.  At cold start up, usually around 25 to 30 psi, when oil was warm at idle it would be 2 to 3 psi. After adding some washers to the oil bypass spring, I got the pressure up to about 1 psi per 100 rpm. I just wasnt satisfied with that on a new engine,  I know it is enough, but barely and on a new engine, I am not satisfied.  After thinking about it, I realized that the oil pump was never changed, after sitting that long with water in the oil and around 18k hours, I felt it was worth a try. 

Installed new oil pump which came with new bypass valve and watched engine oil pressure shoot up to 90 psi on start up, but after warming up, drops of to a little less than old pump. Thinking the old pump was tired and not regretting changing it, but still not satisfied. 

I trust the mechanic did a good job on what he knew and he is very experienced on diesel engine, just never rebuilt a German international before. He is also 2 hours away and is older and not wanting to travel much anymore. 

I am wondering what my next step is? I have been told oil pressure can be greatly affected by cam bearings in these engines and they have to be installed and line bored.  I am no engine builder and happy to admit it. I just want better oil pressure on this thing so that I dont have to worry about it. I would like to see 15 to 20 psi at idle like our 966. 

I am happy to answer questions about the rebuild as best I know them. What am missing?

TIA

Jared

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So....was the cam bearings replaced and bored as they should be? 

With that low of pressure, I'm guessing there has been a mistake made, but not sure what to think right off.

What weight of oil do you run in it?

Travis

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90 psi at startup is impressive, almost excessive!  So how it drops from that high, to clear down to 5 or so when warmed up, the first thing I think is a multi-weight oil is being used.  Not here to start a long thread regarding oil, but, these engines were designed to use a single weight oil.  30wt Diesel oil is what these engines are happy with.  So, if that's not what is in the oil pan right now, I'd drain the oil, put that in, and check pressures with it, to see how it acts.

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No, the cam bearings weren't line bored, I am not sure and mechanic doesnt recall if they were changed. We are running 15w40 in it just like our other machines. 

I agree, it goes from crazy high to stupid low. Our 966 with around 1k hours since overhaul, will peg that high at start up and seems to stay above 40 all the time. 

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If cam bearings weren't line bored, then they weren't replaced, because replacing cam bearings in any IH German engine requires having them line bored after installation.

It's possible that they're worn enough to lose significant oil pressure when the engine is warm, creating tolerances that are on the loose side, and where oil pressure is lost

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1 minute ago, JaredT said:

No, the cam bearings weren't line bored, I am not sure and mechanic doesnt recall if they were changed. We are running 15w40 in it just like our other machines. 

I agree, it goes from crazy high to stupid low. Our 966 with around 1k hours since overhaul, will peg that high at start up and seems to stay above 40 all the time. 

If the bearings weren't line bored, they weren't changed. But...those German diesels last a long, long, long time without needing more than rod and main bearings.  Might be worthwhile to drop the pan and plastigauge the mains and rods...something was missed.

Travis

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Thanks for the info. I was thinking the same thing, about checking the bearings, but I preparing if that all passes inspection to tear out the cam and replace bearings. Dont really know what else to do.

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I doubt it's your cam bearings on this particular engine. Especially since you have so much pressure at startup. If you can't find a problem with the mains and rod bearings, follow the oil pressure path.

Travis

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Was the crankshaft turned down remember the thrust has to be ground on a German diesel

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On 10/6/2021 at 2:46 PM, Binder686 said:

Was the crankshaft turned down remember the thrust has to be ground on a German diesel

The crankshaft was ground. It went to an engine machine shop for that. I am not sure what you mean by the thrust, can you elaborate? I am no engine builder, but I am willing to learn what i need to know.

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On 10/6/2021 at 8:03 PM, acem said:

I'm not that familiar with the internals of the German 358 but is there a bypass valve in the oil filtration system? Thx-Ace 

The bypass is part of the oil pump. I replaced the oil pump and bypass. 

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6 hours ago, 615 spike said:

Are you sure you have the right oil filter holder gasket installed?  MY 706 gas got the wrong one once and 40 wt wouldn't hold oil pressure. cab

Oil filter holder gasket? I am not sure, it would have been supplied with the engine overhaul kit. Are you talking about the gasket where the filter housing connects to the engine block?

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9 hours ago, JaredT said:

Oil filter holder gasket? I am not sure, it would have been supplied with the engine overhaul kit. Are you talking about the gasket where the filter housing connects to the engine block?

that's the one! There are at least 2 different gaskets that fit the bolt holes and cover the gasket face of the base.  The internal openings differ and can block or allow oil flow where it shouldn't happen.  kits I have gotten have come with both.  one fits a cast base the other an aluminum  base.  cab

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On the thrust bearing its the bearing with flanges. On oversized German diesel bearing the thrust has to be ground to allow for a wider bearing. Does engine turn over easily by hand? Should be number 7 main cap. 

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16 hours ago, 615 spike said:

Are you sure you have the right oil filter holder gasket installed?  MY 706 gas got the wrong one once and 40 wt wouldn't hold oil pressure. cab

JaredT may be on to something here?

Pull that filter base off and mate the gasket to the block and filter base.

I seen a new style aluminum oil filter adapter on a 706 D282 from the factory come with a cast iron base oil filter gasket in it.

That shut off most of the oil supply from the oil pump to the engine.

This was an unregulated drop in flow that caused the oil pump to destroy itself and eat the camshaft oil pump drive gear.

We were a couple happy mechanics when we found that.

So was the farmer that had been fighting this for years.

I cannot get into Case/IH engines to determine if the gaskets are different on the 358 and 310.

The dealer can soon look it up. Maybe!

 

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14 hours ago, Binder686 said:

On the thrust bearing its the bearing with flanges. On oversized German diesel bearing the thrust has to be ground to allow for a wider bearing. Does engine turn over easily by hand? Should be number 7 main cap. 

The crank shaft would move forward and back without the thrust bearing.

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14 hours ago, ray54 said:

The crank shaft would move forward and back without the thrust bearing.

Easily check with a dial gauge and a pry bar. BUT since the thrust is taken up by shoulders on a main bearing it would have been tight not too loose.

The front cam bearing is the thrust point for the cam and the entry point for valve train oiling (wears  out first due to side loading of the cam gear) and if cam bearings were not replaced (correctly) the oil leaks right back into the pan after the engine gets up to temperature.

I see this as a bearing clearance issue, and the cam bearings are  my guess.

Since we overhauled our little Neuss the oil pressure has been fine. It runs on delo 30 weight from Walmart.

My advise has one caveat, its free!

 

 

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It’s still would have a thrust they would be tight if they forgot to grind the thrust on the crank could have already spun the bearing thus the oil pressure issue

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