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Old vs new


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On 10/8/2021 at 1:43 PM, Cattech said:

I had a GM 3800 in my Grand Prix that I drove to 225k miles, not one time did that car give me an electronic fault. My 1996 F150, 199k, not one electronic fault. My not so new anymoKia'19 Kia hasn't given me a check engine light once yet.

Yes, there are some instances where older electronics are discontinued and relagate perfectly good machinery useless - a good technician can usually adapt... and it's more rare than one thinks.. More often, the mechanical side is worn out before the electronic side dies.

 

 

 

Not sure if that would be the exception or the rule. The Buick I mentioned I do not recall the check engine light coming on. The present car it is on as much as it is off with about 120k miles. 

The Navistar buses I used to drive were constantly having the check engine light on. Cam sensors, EGR systems are two that I recall being mentioned quite often. The hydraulic park brake system they were using at the time was nothing you could depend on when it came to the electrical part of the system. More than once I had to have another bus come rescue me.

As far as other electronics I seem to have issues with GPS systems. My personal experience is the touch screen goes dim and the manufacture no longer offers support or parts. Been my experience that the newer units will not plug into the wiring for the older heads so then you have to update wiring too. May not be an issue for many, how ever for myself I expect things to last for more than one to two years before replacement is needed. 

Do not get me wrong I enjoy and use GPS a lot and since I run old equipment it does not shut down the farm if it does not work. It is interesting though that the 40 year old tractors run just fine but the 10-15 year old electronics want to die. 

I also realize that if someone is not buying this new fangled equipment then the older stuff would not be on the market for someone like me to pick up. If your going new than computer electronics is part of the package there is no way of getting around it.

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Mikey and sandpaper sur r gud at makin den wurds sund purdy!

The new engines as a rule seem to last many more hours/miles than the old. However the complex electronics as a rule seem to not hold up as well with time.  As always, there are exceptions.

A friend was been in the trucking business for 4 decades, operating a few trucks over the road hauling chicken to California and produce back to the midsouth. His purchasing system was simple. Buy just off lease truck preforme scheduled maintenance, run them until they start giving trouble (typically several years),  then replace them with another. He had great luck with big cam Cummins and very good luck with the early electronic engines, then horrible experience with the later electronic diesel engines. The computers would shut them down, requiring a tow and repair. The maintenance bills ate up all the profit. His most dependable and profitable trucks were big cam Cummins. He ran the trucks, preformed scheduled maintenance, and ran the trucks until the doors fell off! The new diesels persuaded him to retire!

My dodge 12 valve Cummins are 30 years old and have 300 to 600 thousand miles. The trucks keep falling apart around them but they still run strong. My friends with electronic diesels have alot more problems.

I have a rust free pt cruiser in the front yard. It's a good car but has a wiring gremlin. Sometimes it will start and run great. Sometimes it won't start. No codes or any help from the computer...

A neighbor runs late model large row crop tractors with autostart and everything, bought a new one two years ago. His uptime on these tractors is dismal compared to the tractors he ran built in the 70s through early 90s. Not just one brand either, he has red, green, blue and orange 200+hp tractors. He can't find any that will keep from having electrical problems. He is very frustrated.

I like electronic monitoring of systems but am very leary of electronic controls.

IMHO, ymmv.

 

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Electronic systems can be similar to mechanical systems. It largely depends on the quality of the components and the robustness of the system design. Just as there are many different qualities of bearings there are the same when it comes to electronic components and wiring. My experience in aircraft Fly By Wire systems bears this out. When we first found that our new plane would be totally FBW we were aware that fighter aircraft had the systems for years and that they also had ejection seats! Well, 10 years in the reliability is better than 99% dispatch rate and never even any fail down to any lower flight law. I attribute that to the hardened computers and wires and the comfort rate to the 6X redundancy. We've never had a problem with any of the 6 flight control computers but have had some external sensors fail. The redundancy of the design is that no single sensor fail makes any difference and even multiple fails won't effect flying.

The thousands of hours without any of the thousands of components in the flight computers failing must mean that they're the best available.

At the cost of the new AG machines and the need for them to be 100% reliable during harvest manufactures should only use the best components and design in redundancy so the machine will keep performing until it can be scheduled down.

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4 hours ago, New Englander said:

Electronic systems can be similar to mechanical systems. It largely depends on the quality of the components and the robustness of the system design. Just as there are many different qualities of bearings there are the same when it comes to electronic components and wiring. My experience in aircraft Fly By Wire systems bears this out. When we first found that our new plane would be totally FBW we were aware that fighter aircraft had the systems for years and that they also had ejection seats! Well, 10 years in the reliability is better than 99% dispatch rate and never even any fail down to any lower flight law. I attribute that to the hardened computers and wires and the comfort rate to the 6X redundancy. We've never had a problem with any of the 6 flight control computers but have had some external sensors fail. The redundancy of the design is that no single sensor fail makes any difference and even multiple fails won't effect flying.

The thousands of hours without any of the thousands of components in the flight computers failing must mean that they're the best available.

At the cost of the new AG machines and the need for them to be 100% reliable during harvest manufactures should only use the best components and design in redundancy so the machine will keep performing until it can be scheduled down.

Totally agree that it can be made to happen but there is a cost to get it there. They may be doing it now as I have not professionally turned a wrench working on ag equipment since 1985 and the last time I did it in the trucking industry was 2010 so things may have change however I am not aware that they are at 1X redundancy let alone 6X's. Then again I have not witnessed a 4x4 tractor falling out of the sky either.

Neighbors combine sit for 3 days until the dealer was able to get it going again. Something in the arm rest controls. He was not real happy. 

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On 10/9/2021 at 9:42 PM, sandhiller said:

Mike, can't believe you are making fun of a past tragedy from a scarred life.

But I am to tired to defend myself.

All these assaults on my integrity, don't you ever sleep?

That's right, you are from the weird side of the world where the sun comes up during the middle of the night.

You should set your watch to mountain time zone.

It is what time God runs on after all.

Then we can have a honorable discussion about how you traded a pickup for a wife if I understand your story above.

 

Ok sandshoe...we are going to have to sort this out....let us talk about that ''past tradgedy ''   etc...   Look  , I almost felt sorry for you....losing    a belt sander....Had it been an   ""Ozito''   ...sort of a ho hum deal..but had it been a" Milwaukee"'  I too would  have been terribly    cross.....You would have had to put that ol' pack saddle on the Mule..and headed off to the """home Depot "' in North Platte  to replace the sander...I can understand  the  frustrations  ....ha  ha ...oops...

Now, I would appreciate  a time to sort out  your  fractured  , tired mind..   (Was that to kind ,he wonders...)  in respect of  your total confusion  about trading a pickup for a wife.....that could cause considerable grief.....should the wifes ''Bill of Sale "' show another  party  still   ow.....no you did not understand my "story''..thus I have set my clock...(I don't own a watch...well actually ,I do...but it no longer  ''tells the time'' ..thats why  ...this is no doubt further confusing you..  )..to day light saving time...and the sun actually comes up in the morning ..in the east,its been that way for ages, apparantly ...so you can tell me when you are ready..for ..I quote...""an honorable  discussion""

Thankyou....and my legal  team has been alerted

Mike

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1 hour ago, mike newman said:

Ok sandshoe...we are going to have to sort this out....let us talk about that ''past tradgedy ''   etc...   Look  , I almost felt sorry for you....losing    a belt sander....Had it been an   ""Ozito''   ...sort of a ho hum deal..but had it been a" Milwaukee"'  I too would  have been terribly    cross.....You would have had to put that ol' pack saddle on the Mule..and headed off to the """home Depot "' in North Platte  to replace the sander...I can understand  the  frustrations  ....ha  ha ...oops...

Now, I would appreciate  a time to sort out  your  fractured  , tired mind..   (Was that to kind ,he wonders...)  in respect of  your total confusion  about trading a pickup for a wife.....that could cause considerable grief.....should the wifes ''Bill of Sale "' show another  party  still   ow.....no you did not understand my "story''..thus I have set my clock...(I don't own a watch...well actually ,I do...but it no longer  ''tells the time'' ..thats why  ...this is no doubt further confusing you..  )..to day light saving time...and the sun actually comes up in the morning ..in the east,its been that way for ages, apparantly ...so you can tell me when you are ready..for ..I quote...""an honorable  discussion""

Thankyou....and my legal  team has been alerted

Mike

Now don't be back sassin' my belt sander. It's got a good eye for the women.

For someone who thinks they are from the future or at least you tell me it's tomorrow there today. Me thinks you're cheese is sliding off your cracker🙄

I'm ready for that discussion any time but let me warn you. I'm bout done unloading fuel so ready to head home for the night.

 

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