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planejeff
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I have mfg. parts for cranes ,tractors. dam projects, machine tools, you name it.  I have never in my life told a customer to do without while I figure out how to do what you were counting on me for. I replace with new correct perfect part ASAP. In machining all aspects are given a tolerance, if something is in tolerance it is perfect if not it is scrap.

A new tractor I can't use is scrap

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When it comes down to it I think what will put this newer generation of equipment in the fence row will be the electronics. Heck the manufactures can not move the new stuff due to the lack of a chip or two and this is before it is even being sold to the public. Last night I was reading on the combine forum about a machine that basically was shut down and they were thinking it was something in the arm rest causing the issues. Wonder in ten to fifteen years how things will be working when the wiring, connectors, circuit boards have some age on them. 

Wife and I had a 93 Buick and it got to where the heater controls were not working correctly. It was all electronic and was going bad. GM no longer supported the part and the car to me really was not that old. Finally did find a place that could rebuild it but then it took 3 tries before got one that worked correctly. The same functions could have been controlled with a couple of cables and for way less money. 

We also are facing some of those issues I realize with some parts for the old equipment too. Equipment that is 50 60 years old.

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7 hours ago, vtfireman85 said:

Don't we all? 

Yesssss!

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6 hours ago, IHC_1470 said:

When it comes down to it I think what will put this newer generation of equipment in the fence row will be the electronics. Heck the manufactures can not move the new stuff due to the lack of a chip or two and this is before it is even being sold to the public. Last night I was reading on the combine forum about a machine that basically was shut down and they were thinking it was something in the arm rest causing the issues. Wonder in ten to fifteen years how things will be working when the wiring, connectors, circuit boards have some age on them. 

Wife and I had a 93 Buick and it got to where the heater controls were not working correctly. It was all electronic and was going bad. GM no longer supported the part and the car to me really was not that old. Finally did find a place that could rebuild it but then it took 3 tries before got one that worked correctly. The same functions could have been controlled with a couple of cables and for way less money. 

We also are facing some of those issues I realize with some parts for the old equipment too. Equipment that is 50 60 years old.

Agreed, the electronics and the emissions is what will kill the new stuff. Will see how long until the manufacturers obsolete electronic chips and sensors forcing you to buy a new machine. I don’t see all these computers and electronics working well after spending 20 or 30 years on a dairy in the northeast with manure, road salt, mouse damage etc. 
Time will tell 

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7 hours ago, IHC_1470 said:

When it comes down to it I think what will put this newer generation of equipment in the fence row will be the electronics. Heck the manufactures can not move the new stuff due to the lack of a chip or two and this is before it is even being sold to the public. Last night I was reading on the combine forum about a machine that basically was shut down and they were thinking it was something in the arm rest causing the issues. Wonder in ten to fifteen years how things will be working when the wiring, connectors, circuit boards have some age on them. 

My dad has 3 milking robots and had in less than a year a fried circuitboard. Also 

 

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4 hours ago, ChrisNY said:

Agreed, the electronics and the emissions is what will kill the new stuff. Will see how long until the manufacturers obsolete electronic chips and sensors forcing you to buy a new machine. I don’t see all these computers and electronics working well after spending 20 or 30 years on a dairy in the northeast with manure, road salt, mouse damage etc. 
Time will tell 

Your equipment always looks amazing.  I was on a dairy/poultry farm this week that had some nice stuff but they had other stuff that couldn't have seen a bath since new.  To your point all that dust and dirt has to be hard on the electronics, wiring connections etc.

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They say with the shortages right now as soon as a swather is completed at grand island they get it on the truck they don't even test run it. The case IH combines they keep robbing parts off completed machines to keep the line moving.

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8 hours ago, nomorejohndeere said:

If old was always best and if new wasn't worth the risk there wouldn't be near as many divorces

 

...tits and wheels....different  deal.....no electronics.....only histrionics.......

Mike

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1 minute ago, mike newman said:

...tits and wheels....different  deal.....no electronics.....only histrionics.......

Mike

Well looky who the poet lariat is now😄

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5 hours ago, sandhiller said:

Well looky who the poet lariat is now😄

Now  now    sandpaper, no need to get sassy   ...was just stating the facts......:rolleyes:

Mike

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6 hours ago, mike newman said:

Now  now    sandpaper, no need to get sassy   ...was just stating the facts......:rolleyes:

Mike

Um Mike, I've put up with your creative word play with the generations old and very respected family name of sandhiller.

But this last one "sandpaper" cuts me to the quick.

You see, many years ago when I was a much younger man and very much in love with a new bride.

Living in a humble trailer down by the river

I was refinishing my wooden deck when a belt sander ran away with my wife.

Still haven't gotten over that one.

You opened an old wound😢

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🙄😉🤠

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On 10/7/2021 at 8:52 AM, IHC_1470 said:

When it comes down to it I think what will put this newer generation of equipment in the fence row will be the electronics. Heck the manufactures can not move the new stuff due to the lack of a chip or two and this is before it is even being sold to the public. Last night I was reading on the combine forum about a machine that basically was shut down and they were thinking it was something in the arm rest causing the issues. Wonder in ten to fifteen years how things will be working when the wiring, connectors, circuit boards have some age on them. 

Wife and I had a 93 Buick and it got to where the heater controls were not working correctly. It was all electronic and was going bad. GM no longer supported the part and the car to me really was not that old. Finally did find a place that could rebuild it but then it took 3 tries before got one that worked correctly. The same functions could have been controlled with a couple of cables and for way less money. 

We also are facing some of those issues I realize with some parts for the old equipment too. Equipment that is 50 60 years old.

Electronics will end the life of a product faster than any mechanical device ever would, mostly because mechanical devices can be made with very low tech mfg.  Last time I checked it was a little hard to locate a Signetics 2650  processor for our single  board computer.  BUT I could easily have a wheel built for a 1880 Studebaker wagon! That has probably been out of production since 1890. The Signetics device only went obsolete in 1979.

 

 

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The average life of engines, trans, hyd systems on Cat equipment at overhaul has doubled since electronic control. The capability of the equipment has doubled over the last 20 yrs as well.

Emissions systems that are giving people headaches today, are twice as reliable as they were just 5 yrs ago. This is simply a bump in the road.

I have seen truck C15 ECMs with 2.5 million+ miles without replacement. It's a regular thing to see equipment with 20,000+ hrs these days with few problems....

And, being in my job, I monitor several customers equipment that electronically report machine health. We respond to equipment problems before the operator even knows something is wrong. 

I had a GM 3800 in my Grand Prix that I drove to 225k miles, not one time did that car give me an electronic fault. My 1996 F150, 199k, not one electronic fault. My not so new anymoKia'19 Kia hasn't given me a check engine light once yet.

Yes, we are experiencing some supply issues with electronic parts these days. This is mainly a p0[!t!c@[ problem. It will get resolved one way or another. I heard Ford moved their electronic production to the USA for 2022, new trucks will be in shortly.

Yes, there are some instances where older electronics are discontinued and relagate perfectly good machinery useless - a good technician can usually adapt... and it's more rare than one thinks.. More often, the mechanical side is worn out before the electronic side dies.

Except for emissions problems, I have found electronic control usually doesn't fail. In the cases where it shuts down a machine, it's usually because a mechanical problem exists and the electrification is protecting the system from the operator. You would think the red light and warning beeper would be enough, but....

 

Again, I don't have an issue with old equipment, I'm about to jump on an Allis Chalmers HD5 dozer and work on some trails. Is this dozer better than a new Cat D3.... NO! Does it get the job done... yes. Will it run another yr...? tough to say.

 

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53 minutes ago, Cattech said:

The average life of engines, trans, hyd systems on Cat equipment at overhaul has doubled since electronic control. The capability of the equipment has doubled over the last 20 yrs as well.

Emissions systems that are giving people headaches today, are twice as reliable as they were just 5 yrs ago. This is simply a bump in the road.

I have seen truck C15 ECMs with 2.5 million+ miles without replacement. It's a regular thing to see equipment with 20,000+ hrs these days with few problems....

And, being in my job, I monitor several customers equipment that electronically report machine health. We respond to equipment problems before the operator even knows something is wrong. 

I had a GM 3800 in my Grand Prix that I drove to 225k miles, not one time did that car give me an electronic fault. My 1996 F150, 199k, not one electronic fault. My not so new anymoKia'19 Kia hasn't given me a check engine light once yet.

Yes, we are experiencing some supply issues with electronic parts these days. This is mainly a p0[!t!c@[ problem. It will get resolved one way or another. I heard Ford moved their electronic production to the USA for 2022, new trucks will be in shortly.

Yes, there are some instances where older electronics are discontinued and relagate perfectly good machinery useless - a good technician can usually adapt... and it's more rare than one thinks.. More often, the mechanical side is worn out before the electronic side dies.

Except for emissions problems, I have found electronic control usually doesn't fail. In the cases where it shuts down a machine, it's usually because a mechanical problem exists and the electrification is protecting the system from the operator. You would think the red light and warning beeper would be enough, but....

 

Again, I don't have an issue with old equipment, I'm about to jump on an Allis Chalmers HD5 dozer and work on some trails. Is this dozer better than a new Cat D3.... NO! Does it get the job done... yes. Will it run another yr...? tough to say.

 

  That old Caterpillar    #12   grader  , with the 318  Engine , was always serviced by the local Cat Dealership, this in Nelson area, New Zealand.....The same operator was on the machine from day one....When I was at the Caterpillar Agency, the grader operator, one Frank Snowden, would have been about forty yrs old..or thereabouts..  He was a fiesty bloke....any welding ''scars ''  on the mould board    or scarifiers , had to be cleaned and painted over.....not a vestige of grease or oil smudge  on the engine....

Those days there was hundreds of miles of gravel  roads....and Frank did them all....He had mandatory retirement  at 66  years old.....simply because the Council  put out the grading of the diminishing  number of gravel road miles to private contractors......and his old grader was tendered out.....

I cannot remember the exact hours on that machine ...one of the young blokes who started  work  there, when I did...about 1961  I believe...was by  then the Workshop Foreman.....and I still call on him, very occasionally   for a query on my old D6B......But he said the hours were huge....with virtually zero maintainence on the 318 engine..... Frank must have operated that Caterpillar for forty years or more....He would had to have done around 13 to 1500   hundred hours per annum......but he was an absolute ''stickler'' for the rules....That pony motor  would have been run up and thence the diesel engine..by the book...never an exception...and that attention to detail is a wonderful trait in any operator

Mike

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9 hours ago, sandhiller said:

Um Mike, I've put up with your creative word play with the generations old and very respected family name of sandhiller.

But this last one "sandpaper" cuts me to the quick.

You see, many years ago when I was a much younger man and very much in love with a new bride.

Living in a humble trailer down by the river

I was refinishing my wooden deck when a belt sander ran away with my wife.

Still haven't gotten over that one.

You opened an old wound😢

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

🙄😉🤠

Oh dear, sandpaper, what a tragic story.....a story of love and then the loss of , no doubt,  a perfectly  good belt  sander.... and I guess to rub   the salt into that 'wound'' of yours.....the freakin'   deck job  no doubt, was not even finished...Yeah,,,that is rough allright....

But, hang on ....you sure   the new bride didn't run away with the belt sander..????   Just thinking...never did see a belt sander with legs....thats all....Did it come from Vermont, by chance  ?? Obviously the infatuation with a  dust coughing cow puncher ...had begun to dim...she wanted out......so to amplify   the pain for you....she stole one of your most cherished  posessions...your belt sander...was it a Milwaukee    ??..I have a "Ozito"' ..should never  have brought that cheap  stuff...should have brought    a Milwaukee.....But down here they cost big dollars.....  

Yeah...that will be thing allright.....stole you belt sander just to rub that excrement in....I remember when my wife shot the gap.....My new, by then 50, 000  mile F100   had to go.....I ended up with an Holden HQ ute...1974 vintage, of uncertain mileage...brown in colour   ,with blue smoke......I remember how displeased  with that arrangement., I was....so   I can relate to the loss of a belt sander.....especially if it was  a Milwaukee......  

I think we need more clarification on this matter.....before we start grieving for the belt sander..or the ''bride''

Was  the word ""bridle''  derived....out of necessity...from the word ''bride''  ???

Mike

(BTW...F  100..HQ ute...true story..!!..)

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2 hours ago, mike newman said:

  That old Caterpillar    #12   grader  , with the 318  Engine , was always serviced by the local Cat Dealership, this in Nelson area, New Zealand.....The same operator was on the machine from day one....When I was at the Caterpillar Agency, the grader operator, one Frank Snowden, would have been about forty yrs old..or thereabouts..  He was a fiesty bloke....any welding ''scars ''  on the mould board    or scarifiers , had to be cleaned and painted over.....not a vestige of grease or oil smudge  on the engine....

Those days there was hundreds of miles of gravel  roads....and Frank did them all....He had mandatory retirement  at 66  years old.....simply because the Council  put out the grading of the diminishing  number of gravel road miles to private contractors......and his old grader was tendered out.....

I cannot remember the exact hours on that machine ...one of the young blokes who started  work  there, when I did...about 1961  I believe...was by  then the Workshop Foreman.....and I still call on him, very occasionally   for a query on my old D6B......But he said the hours were huge....with virtually zero maintainence on the 318 engine..... Frank must have operated that Caterpillar for forty years or more....He would had to have done around 13 to 1500   hundred hours per annum......but he was an absolute ''stickler'' for the rules....That pony motor  would have been run up and thence the diesel engine..by the book...never an exception...and that attention to detail is a wonderful trait in any operator

Mike

The old knuckle buster, we have one at work that we use for grading woods roads and plowing snow in the winter. Ours has a working pony also, it will start that diesel even when it's below zero.

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5 hours ago, Cattech said:

 

The average life of engines, trans, hyd systems on Cat equipment at overhaul has doubled since electronic control. The capability of the equipment has doubled over the last 20 yrs as well.

 

I agree that new engines can go quite some time between overhauls. The trouble is all of the other parts that fail in between, not just emissions. I put a set of injectors in our sprayer and just those cost more that an overhaul would have not that long ago. The comfort of new stuff is unbeatable though. 

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😉 This poet lariat thing is getting BS thrown all over by the swing of that lariat. 🤣 But I take a laugh where every I can find it. 😵  So keep on swing. 🤣

 

 

I sure hope things are improving as fast as Cattech is thinking. But I do question what will happen with a "barn find" piece of low houred equipment from today in 30 years. With mice, rats, bugs, and humidity . My guess a complete new electrical system. 😉 But will say a 70's era tractor with a honest 1000 hours sitting in a barn may not be the jewel many think it should be ether. 

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9 hours ago, mike newman said:

Oh dear, sandpaper, what a tragic story.....a story of love and then the loss of , no doubt,  a perfectly  good belt  sander.... and I guess to rub   the salt into that 'wound'' of yours.....the freakin'   deck job  no doubt, was not even finished...Yeah,,,that is rough allright....

But, hang on ....you sure   the new bride didn't run away with the belt sander..????   Just thinking...never did see a belt sander with legs....thats all....Did it come from Vermont, by chance  ?? Obviously the infatuation with a  dust coughing cow puncher ...had begun to dim...she wanted out......so to amplify   the pain for you....she stole one of your most cherished  posessions...your belt sander...was it a Milwaukee    ??..I have a "Ozito"' ..should never  have brought that cheap  stuff...should have brought    a Milwaukee.....But down here they cost big dollars.....  

Yeah...that will be thing allright.....stole you belt sander just to rub that excrement in....I remember when my wife shot the gap.....My new, by then 50, 000  mile F100   had to go.....I ended up with an Holden HQ ute...1974 vintage, of uncertain mileage...brown in colour   ,with blue smoke......I remember how displeased  with that arrangement., I was....so   I can relate to the loss of a belt sander.....especially if it was  a Milwaukee......  

I think we need more clarification on this matter.....before we start grieving for the belt sander..or the ''bride''

Was  the word ""bridle''  derived....out of necessity...from the word ''bride''  ???

Mike

(BTW...F  100..HQ ute...true story..!!..)

Mike, can't believe you are making fun of a past tragedy from a scarred life.

But I am to tired to defend myself.

All these assaults on my integrity, don't you ever sleep?

That's right, you are from the weird side of the world where the sun comes up during the middle of the night.

You should set your watch to mountain time zone.

It is what time God runs on after all.

Then we can have a honorable discussion about how you traded a pickup for a wife if I understand your story above.

 

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I prefer the old iron because things were made to be serviceable. I would take an old 855 Cummins all day over a new emissions laden engine.  I know I would have to take the less horsepower and mileage as well.  Beyond engines and equipment though,  I see the plastic hoods, lightweight everything and computer design to make things as cheaply as possible to be a detriment to long term use. This applies  to even household goods and every day things too. I admit to being behind the times but it works for me.  

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Emissions controls are like everything else, they’re continually being improved. There’s been some notable problems with some but, there’s a lot that run with no problems. It’ll only get better. 
 Remember when new fangled electronic fuel injection and ignition systems on pickups would never last? Yeah, me neither. How many old pickups are still on the road after 30 years and 250k miles? A lot of them. I remember when most pickups that had 100k on them were done.

We have 19 380 Vector (bought 3/20) at work with a Cummins QSX9 with all the emissions gadgets that has 2600 hours so far and is exposed to fertilizer and the only thing it’s required so far is filling the DEF tank about once a week, it does it’s thing with no interaction from me. It doesn’t burn any more fuel than the 300 Vector it replaced.

How long ago did the 8360r get introduced? There are a LOT of those things around here that pull tremendous loads with a pile of hours on them that have never been opened up still going strong.

That being said, I like them all from the oldest to the newest, they’ve all got something going for them.
I grew up driving 66 and 86 series tractors and a few fords, they brought us a new 7120 demo in 1989, I remember driving that and thinking “there’s no way it could get better than this”.

4B845A7F-3E09-47D9-AE51-F330A9670218.jpeg

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