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Old vs new


planejeff
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I've seen many talk about older stuff being easier to work on. I disagree. Yes you have to have some special electronic tooling. But once you have that tooling and a little knowhow, the new stuff is much easier.

In fact, you better know how to fix your older equipment yourself. Because the younger techs that make up 80+% of mechanic workforce these days get deer in headlights looks on their faces when confronted with something that doesn't have a diagnostic port.

I was lucky to get into the industry while mechanical engines were still prevalent and hydromechanical systems were still dominant, but also as electronic control was taking over. I was there as gauges and timing indicators were replaced with laptop computers. Finely machined parts, orifices, springs replaced by microchips. I can attest, the new stuff, while complicated, is easier to work on. 

Don't get me wrong though. It would make no sense for a person to buy a $200k tractor to farm 50 acres. The average Joe isn't going to get a tech school degree and attend factory training for each piece of machinery they buy. The older equipment was well built then and is still plenty viable today. 

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I feel like my 424 is in the sweet spot. New enough to have live PTO, 3 point hitch, and hydraulic steering, but old enough for no electronic control modules. It's a good setup in my opinion. 

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My 1486 may have the doors installed backwards on the cab, shifting is not always ideal. BUT, it will start, run and complete a day's work during this age where a circuit board shortage has rendered new machines inoperable!

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I believe that most New New machinery requires less work less stress to operate and a much larger cash stream. If you do not find it stressful to generate that cash stream then you deserve a new tractor . If you love to take care of your machines, giving them attention, talking to them (Not the bad words) trolling old yards now and then for parts and putting cash into your further enjoyment of life then maybe you should quit looking at that good smelling color brochure and take your family out for some ice cream. 

There is no shame in wearing a dust mask and ear plugs. You will out live those that are to tough to do so.

Thanks again to all you Ag Guys   whatever you run

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  I run for the most part 1970's and 1980's era equipment.  Capable hydraulics, comfortable cabs, and relatively easy shifting/steering allow for productive days.  Farm size does not allow for newer equipment budget-wise but I don't have to deal with cantankerous electronics on damp days like today.  When I can financially swing it any acquisitions will be along the same lines.  

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On 10/3/2021 at 1:32 PM, billonthefarm said:

I have both.  I use both.  I enjoy both.  They both have their place on a farm.  I am not afraid to spend a day on a open station tractor and I also enjoy utilizing the bells and whistles.  The nostalgia of the 1970’s tugs at me continuously but the comfort and efficiency of modern farm equipment draws me towards the reality of modern agriculture.  
  The reality of my farm is my biggest tractor is a 1979 Versatile 875.  It still does the job I need it to do.  I still plant a couple farm with a 1066 and 800 planter because it does the job I need it to do.  I plant the rest with a new tractor and planter because it does the job I need it to do.

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When I grow up, I want to be like billonthefarm!😀

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I have not spent near the amount of time doing farm work or seat time as all of you have. The tractors I have spent the most time on is of course my 1948 Farmall Cub, a 1996 Versatile New Holland 9482 4wd, and about a 2015 John Deere 4044R. So a wide range of technology on tractors. I throughly enjoy them all and have love every minute on all of them. 

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A large cattle operation close to me has all green equipment less than 2 years old except for one, a 1486. Its stays hooked to the feed wagon. They bought it new and I asked them about it when I was repairing their hay rake. Told me the feed wagon has to run if its zero or 100 degrees outside, it has around 15,000 hrs on it. he said this coming spring its going to be over hauled form the grill to the hitch.  

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All this new technology is bad. Even the Amish are too high tech.

Sticks and rocks to work the soil. Harvest the grain by hand. Ride a horse or cow for transportation.

The American Indians had the right amount of technology. Back to the good old days!

Thx-Ace 

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On 10/3/2021 at 2:39 PM, Cattech said:

If old was better, we'd still be staring at the hind end of a horse wrestling a one bottom plow by hand.

Technology can be temperamental, but sure does make our life increasingly convenient.

Think of the automotive world. There was a time when they kept a hand crank on the front of a car because that new fangled electric starting motor wasn't very reliable. As late as the early 80's, starting a carbureted car when it was -30F was an ordeal - now we hit a button on a remote, walk out to a warm, ready to go vehicle 5 minutes later.... You don't hear many people telling stories about their fond memories of an old Chevy 6.2 or Ford 6.9 diesel either.

An interesting side note. Caterpillar has what they call the "GC" (General Contractor) line. Basically, for several popular size machines of different lines, I.E. a 950 loader, 320 excavator. These are a stripped down, lower tech, lower price version of the normal machine.... and they're really not selling... or at least in my area they're not.

What I see, is much of the new tech improves the life expectancies of the various systems and believe it or not, has made things cheaper to build and repair.

. Not sure of your age but 40 years ago there was a lot more major overhauls of engines, transmissions and rearends as compared to now, is that been  your finding as well ? 

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49 minutes ago, hillman said:

. Not sure of your age but 40 years ago there was a lot more major overhauls of engines, transmissions and rearends as compared to now, is that been  your finding as well ? 

I’d say we’re getting back to those levels again. Some in part to quality control and mainly thanks to emission standards on newer diesels.  Used to be million miles wasn’t out of the question for a highway truck. Now most seem to have a rebuild Under their hood by 350-400,000 miles.

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Time will tell what works and what does not. The 1970's and the first generation of trying clean up engines did not start well. But technology came through and fixed the burned valves and with the better materials as one example. Now they last longer than ever before at least in gas engines. Will they get diesels back up to where they where? If they don't get banned altogether hopefully.

But I have never had machinery newer than the 80's vintage. 

I don't mind hot weather with the low humidity I generally have. Just about all my dirt is high clay that does not make as much dust as most. So never minded not having a cab on my old Cats that do all the tilling. 

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On 10/4/2021 at 4:47 PM, sandhiller said:

 

If my $5200 1486 will pull my round baler out through the meadow while listening to Jerry Jeff Walker on the am radio, why would I want a $XXXX CIH Puma 160 with probably lady gaga on the cee dee?

 

 

...way to go , sandpiper......I'm with you on that.......and   as for someone running a $xxxx   Case /IH Puma...with  Lady copulating GagGa  on the cee  dee.....that person would need to have several, long, serious  ''attitude   adjustment''   sessions.....

I have been discing  ,(at  home...)  recently,  with the D6B   .....way north of 23,000   lbs of American Steel......a brush cab.....a straight pipe  and  never a need for adjustment sessions , on that old tractor......simple, reliable  machine after countless thousands of hours.....and its got about the same amount of summers on it....as the old weather worn  cow puncher..on the 'quote'' above.....<_<

There are two, new  Johnny D's  on the Station here...total count  all up  is Eight  , between the four farms......they are not infallible.........always the bloody electrics  that give a bit of grief......

Mike

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51 minutes ago, mike newman said:

There are two, new  Johnny D's  on the Station here...total count  all up  is Eight  , between the four farms......they are not infallible.........always the bloody electrics  that give a bit of grief......

An outfit here had a Komatsu 155 AX

The bloke that kept it going had to ban pressure washing.

Another friend was taken on an inspection of the purchase of a new Komatsu.  His report IIRC

"You turn on the key and up comes a check list.  7 pages later if all is well it allows it to start.  Just imagine when it gets to where we can afford it"

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For every old tractor that you thump your chest and proclaim, "Old is better, new is junk!" there were many saying the EXACT SAME THING when your tractor is new.

I remember when the 86 series came out. Too complicated. Too many electronics. Can't work on them. In 10 years they'll be in the scrapyard when my old 856 is still going strong.

I'm sure when the 06 series came out. Too complicated. Too many hydraulics. Can't work on them. In 10 years they'll be in the scrapyard when my old M is still going strong.

There are ALWAYS a few "horror stories" of lemons. You can go back to any brand, any model, and find them. Your new tractor ending up in an endless cycle of shop visits is far from a foregone conclusion. In fact the small minority end up needing shop work at all, but the Internet makes it seem much worse.

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19 hours ago, IHhogfarmer said:

When I grow up, I want to be like billonthefarm!😀

Don't we all? 

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Creature comforts are nice. Tho anything with air  conditioning and heat meats that requirement, for me at least. Convenience is nice but at what cost in money and time when not working?

   In the industrial world many of our trouble calls to not working factory machines boil down to a faulty photo eye/prox switch, programing or other electronic gadgetry. Not all of course but many times. Electrical stuff just seems to fail at a higher rate. 

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The heat and AC on new is nice but for me my 806 does the job plus I can understand and do the work on it. A even bigger plus is if I do have to put it in for what I have for a shop it does fit in.

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1 hour ago, Matt Kirsch said:

There are ALWAYS a few "horror stories" of lemons. You can go back to any brand, any model, and find them.

Until the lemon builder shoulders the loss involved it is a risk that can break a small operation. For big money I don't want good odds I want perfect performance.

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Time tempers our memories. 

We all remember how easy it is to work on a 69 camero or road runner but we forget how often we had to do it! 

The build quality was often crap. Tune ups every few months. Gummed up carburetors. Throwing a cap off a tire. And that 350 chevy was so worn out by 100,000 miles you needed a ring grove cutter to get the pistons out to rebuild. 

I still run vehicles with carburetors and Points. The new gas helps the carburetors and especially spark plugs last much longer. Points are no better though. 

I prefer one use the best I can afford from various eras for whatever I am doing.  My brother wants a 69 camero convertible but won't pay the price.

Thx-Ace 

 

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16 minutes ago, just Dave said:

Until the lemon builder shoulders the loss involved it is a risk that can break a small operation. For big money I don't want good odds I want perfect performance.

That's called "warranty." Despite all the incentive, mistakes still get made and lemons come off the assembly line. Always have. Always will.

Everyone wants "perfect" but there is only one being that is.

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I understand mistakes happen. A major tractor mfg. can replace that lemon with the plethora of non lemons that they make and take that one back to the factory to find out were in the process they need to do better

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