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Old vs new


planejeff
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This is not for you big farmers out there that are in the business bigger is better. Thank you for what you are doing each and every day!

I always here the argument of new and shiny is always better. I've know plenty of people that want to keep up with the Jones also. So they buy a new tractor and look down on the old ones. They claim that new is good and old is bad. For now the new one has all the bells and whistles! No leaks and all the comforts of a living room chair with a cupholder. Add a few years and warranties have ended. The tractor isn't new anymore and leaks. The tractor is in the shop more often than in the field. All those bells and whistles are costing you about the same as a new one the salesperson tells you on the 5th trip to the dealer. Since you can't work on it. Since the software requires a update package from the company that only the dealer can install. 

The old term "they don't make like they use too!" Some tractors on fence rows are worth more fixing than a new tractor that is one computer chip away from a fence row itself!

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Every time someone tells my dad that they don’t make them like they use to, he says “Thank God for that”. Yes, sometimes new is not always the best and there are some technological features that I think aren’t the benefit that they are supposed to be. I think too often people remember the past much more fondly than it actually was. My Grandfather was deaf from running equipment and was an old man before he should have been because of farm work. My dad is not much better off. I don’t want to run an open station tractor all day with the engine screaming plowing wheat stubble in 100 degree heat eating dirt. I don’t necessarily want a new one, but I know I don’t want an old one. Driving tractors in a parade is one thing, riding them 16 hours a day for weeks on end is quite another. 

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If old was better, we'd still be staring at the hind end of a horse wrestling a one bottom plow by hand.

Technology can be temperamental, but sure does make our life increasingly convenient.

Think of the automotive world. There was a time when they kept a hand crank on the front of a car because that new fangled electric starting motor wasn't very reliable. As late as the early 80's, starting a carbureted car when it was -30F was an ordeal - now we hit a button on a remote, walk out to a warm, ready to go vehicle 5 minutes later.... You don't hear many people telling stories about their fond memories of an old Chevy 6.2 or Ford 6.9 diesel either.

An interesting side note. Caterpillar has what they call the "GC" (General Contractor) line. Basically, for several popular size machines of different lines, I.E. a 950 loader, 320 excavator. These are a stripped down, lower tech, lower price version of the normal machine.... and they're really not selling... or at least in my area they're not.

What I see, is much of the new tech improves the life expectancies of the various systems and believe it or not, has made things cheaper to build and repair.

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I have both.  I use both.  I enjoy both.  They both have their place on a farm.  I am not afraid to spend a day on a open station tractor and I also enjoy utilizing the bells and whistles.  The nostalgia of the 1970’s tugs at me continuously but the comfort and efficiency of modern farm equipment draws me towards the reality of modern agriculture.  
  The reality of my farm is my biggest tractor is a 1979 Versatile 875.  It still does the job I need it to do.  I still plant a couple farm with a 1066 and 800 planter because it does the job I need it to do.  I plant the rest with a new tractor and planter because it does the job I need it to do.

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If Case IH will take the models like the 1056XL, 1255XL and 1455XL back in production and give both models an update like optional airco, more gears, more hydraulic valves, optional front-axle suspension, more hydraulic output and an updated cab it can become a bestseller. But it will never happen.

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12 minutes ago, jordi 1455 said:

If Case IH will take the models like the 1056XL, 1255XL and 1455XL back in production and give both models an update like optional airco, more gears, more hydraulic valves, optional front-axle suspension, more hydraulic output and an updated cab it can become a bestseller. But it will never happen.

I think most people that want an old model back in production think that they will use the same price that they used the first go around. I bet if they announced they were going to have a limited run of brand new 1086’s with modern updates your jaw would hit the floor when you found out what it would cost. I would also bet that all the people who said they wanted this hypothetical tractor would never buy an actual one. New tractors are built for people who buy new tractors. I hardly ever see stripped down new tractors, guys that buy them want every option you can get. 

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13 minutes ago, Cattech said:

Notice the ultra bright, probably LED lights fitted to the 1066, because old is better..... ;)

 LED’s are game changers on those old horse’s.  Much much better visibility and lessens the load on the electrical system!

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1 minute ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I think most people that want an old model back in production think that they will use the same price that they used the first go around. I bet if they announced they were going to have a limited run of brand new 1086’s with modern updates your jaw would hit the floor when you found out what it would cost. I would also bet that all the people who said they wanted this hypothetical tractor would never buy an actual one. New tractors are built for people who buy new tractors. I hardly ever see stripped down new tractors, guys that buy them want every option you can get. 

  I think you are 100% correct!  

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I think that a lot of the answer is financial. I've seen small farmers go under because they have a bit of a sweet tooth when it comes to new machinery and they can't afford it. At work, I've run everything from construction machinery to older tractors to new tractors with power shift and cvt transmissions. On the farm I've planted with the 1086 on a hot day with no ac and felt I would've been better off with an open station. However, if the ac works radio works, the shifter is adjusted right and lubed up I'd be just as happy sitting in the old 1086 planting or the 5488 doing tillage work as I would a brand new one. I wouldn't want to do tillage and that without a cab but sitting on the 806 for a day mowing is almost a religious experience listening to that old well tuned engine run. And considering my grandpa ran that same ground with these tractors I get a sense of pride that I don't with new ones. 

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9 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I think most people that want an old model back in production think that they will use the same price that they used the first go around. I bet if they announced they were going to have a limited run of brand new 1086’s with modern updates your jaw would hit the floor when you found out what it would cost. I would also bet that all the people who said they wanted this hypothetical tractor would never buy an actual one. New tractors are built for people who buy new tractors. I hardly ever see stripped down new tractors, guys that buy them want every option you can get. 

A new 1086, if sold as a new manufactured tractor, would have to meet current emissions standards, that would include a catalyst & DEF system, of which cost more than the whole tractor did back when they were new.

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I run four tractors- nothing newer than a 5088 or older than a 1256- regularly but could get by on two newer ones- say, a boxcar Magnum and an MX120 FWA & loader.  But the way things are I have cabs when I want them, open tractors when I don't, and a bit of cushion if one goes down.  I figure hammering around with a bunch of old binders is my niche in the neighborhood, which is chock-full of shiny new green iron.

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I've got a 340 Magnum a 8940, 8920 and a Farmall 140a that are my farming tractors that pay the bills. I've got these 3 open station outfits that get used to make hay and nothing else. When the hay is done for the year, they hibernate until spring. We had all 3 of these many moons ago when I was young. They are not the same ones we had. I bought each one from different individuals, so I can play kid again. I really enjoy running them to a extent. As far as using them daily in the field, or other tasks, no thanks. I've lived history. I don't want to go back to doing it again

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6 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

Every time someone tells my dad that they don’t make them like they use to, he says “Thank God for that”. Yes, sometimes new is not always the best and there are some technological features that I think aren’t the benefit that they are supposed to be. I think too often people remember the past much more fondly than it actually was. My Grandfather was deaf from running equipment and was an old man before he should have been because of farm work. My dad is not much better off. I don’t want to run an open station tractor all day with the engine screaming plowing wheat stubble in 100 degree heat eating dirt. I don’t necessarily want a new one, but I know I don’t want an old one. Driving tractors in a parade is one thing, riding them 16 hours a day for weeks on end is quite another. 

So true.  Plenty of guys around here that grew up on 1960s tractors/combines eating dust but are now running around with new tractors with auto steer, half million dollar sprayers with individual nozzle control, and combines that map and adjust themselves on the go.  

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We have a magnum 245 and a puma 145 CVT, also have 1586, 966, 826, 656, Case 830, 400, MTA, M, H, 3 C's and A. I love pulling 7 bottom plow with magnum and baling with puma cvt. I also have a ton of respect for the old horses too. I have plowed more ground with the 966 than anything else. That was our spraying tractor until the 826 was resurrected. I love making some coal roll with the 830 and the hay stacker. They all have a place here, even if they are shed queens like the H.  I have a lot of pride in keeping the old iron running when everyone around us traded them off 20 years ago. I also have a lot of pride in mold boarding down a 30 acre field by midnight after getting started with it after dark, then listening to my 10 year olds amazement in what I did last night while waiting for the bus to pick them all up.  

For those who say the new ones are junk, I disagree wholeheartedly.  For those who say that the old iron belongs in a salvage yard, I disagree wholeheartedly.  We cant afford all new machines, need the older ones to fill in the gaps. We cant put my 79 year old dad or my wife in a rattle cab 966 and expect them to get things done the way we have with our years of experience and younger bodied abilities either.  I cant tell you the pride I have when I hit the starter on the 966 and it fires up faster than the newer tractors do with their intake heaters. But i enjoy the comfort and visibility of that huge Magnum cab. 

For the naysayers on both sides of the fence, remember innovation and new things brought you your 966, Magnum or whatever you use, the generation before you didnt like that newfangled thing either. Sit back enjoy the view of that new tractor across the way, if it weren't for the BTO buying all the new stuff, we would have used stuff to buy later. 

Just my observation. 

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5 hours ago, Farmer in training said:

I think that a lot of the answer is financial.

I like the modern conveniences as much as anyone

I, however also have a limited budget. 

If my $5200 1486 will pull my round baler out through the meadow while listening to Jerry Jeff Walker on the am radio, why would I want a $XXXX CIH Puma 160 with probably lady gaga on the cee dee?

Gots other places, better suited, for my hard earned monies. 

 

 

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We’re a little bit of a mix here. Most of the work horses are still old school. Was just talking about this tonight with a friend. Problem is you can’t get equivalent replacements anymore. 275-300 hp tractors are almost considered chore tractors now. 4-500 hp is needed just to pull a set of heavy harrows now.  The new stuff is nice when it’s new and the old stuff is nice when it’s working. Kind of need a bit of a mix to make it all work. 

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A little comment on the Cat GC stuff.  I read an article in the paper that the county wanted to buy another used grader for the gravel roads in the county.  Their choices were a JD that was higher priced than the Cat, all with the equivalent hours and features except the Cat had more high tech in the cab than the JD.  One commissioner was quoted as saying " we already have a Cat at the shed that no one wants to run after the last operator retired that knew how the run it!"  So the county voted to buy the higher priced JD because it had less bells and whistles that any average Joe could run without a lot of training.

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3 hours ago, sandhiller said:

I like the modern conveniences as much as anyone

I, however also have a limited budget. 

If my $5200 1486 will pull my round baler out through the meadow while listening to Jerry Jeff Walker on the am radio, why would I want a $XXXX CIH Puma 160 with probably lady gaga on the cee dee?

Gots other places, better suited, for my hard earned monies. 

 

 

I haven’t heard Jerry Jeff on a local radio station in probably 20 years. That’s why I listen to radio through internet but I wont spend the money for that kind of radio on a tractor. 
As for the main question I agree better places to spend money for the amount I use them. I would love a cab on my loader tractor when I’m plowing snow but it wouldn’t fit inside my dads barn when I occasionally have cows over there and there’s no way I can justify two loader tractors. 
 

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My grandpa bought a used F-20 late fall 1939. He was born in 1914, so he would have been 25. He was already married and living on his own at the time. When his dad saw it he came unglued! He MADE grandpa take it back. Said we don't need a @#$& tractor to get things done. Grandpa took it back, but the same tractor came back the spring of '40... Some people are just afraid to change. Dad bought a new TR-70 in 1979. Had a monitor system to the top right of the cab inside. Even the 45 year old mechanic who smoked a cigar that was prepping it, laughed about the monitor system. It was new technology back then. The 1973 975 it was going to replace had nothing like that. Used your ears because you had to have the door open because of no air conditioning and sat in there and ate bean dust all day. I don't think anyone would have interest in doing that again

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What I'm reading in here is that there are steps in technology that are accepted.  As an example air conditioning.

Adequate, useable cab, reliable was a step up.  After that more things that whistle and whir, change the driver's underwear etc not so much reason to upgrade.

 

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Perty much what it boils down to is keep some of the older equipment. When your broke down for a long time and it's a busy time of the year it's alot easier to go fire up an old reliable and get back in the field than it is to call me every two hours to see if progress is made on the breakdown.

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I went through this whole update thing recently. we bought a 2014 Case 580 SN, looked to be in nice shape, got it home and the cluster started lighting up like Christmas. alarms and beeps and warning buzzers. it wouldn't go into first gear, I bought a manual, and tried a few different things to no avail, so we took it to the dealer. I am rather irritated, before taking it out and trying it out, the first thing they did was to clear all the codes and update the computer updates, then called to say we can't find a problem. while the shifting seems to be cured, now they don't seem to believe me and say I just am not used to it, they say the codes weren't current. they were, and it absolutely had a problem.  now it has 2 alarm codes for the water sensor on the fuel filter, according to their computer it is that they aren't getting feedback from the sensor. so new sensor time, it is very very frustrating. on the other hand, while I absolutely adored the old 580K that this tractor replaced this is SO MUCH NICER TO USE. the hydraulics are super duper smooth, I could train my dog to operate it, everything is tight, the power is unbelievable and it is so bloody quiet, A/C, stereo, air ride seat.... yeah.. I like some of the new stuff. 

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19 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I think most people that want an old model back in production think that they will use the same price that they used the first go around. I bet if they announced they were going to have a limited run of brand new 1086’s with modern updates your jaw would hit the floor when you found out what it would cost. I would also bet that all the people who said they wanted this hypothetical tractor would never buy an actual one. New tractors are built for people who buy new tractors. I hardly ever see stripped down new tractors, guys that buy them want every option you can get. 

At least you can repair older tractors with more ease than the new ones with all the electronics.

19 hours ago, Cattech said:

A new 1086, if sold as a new manufactured tractor, would have to meet current emissions standards, that would include a catalyst & DEF system, of which cost more than the whole tractor did back when they were new.

The worse off al the consumer doesn't need that emission junk, what's always causing a higher fuel consumption than older tractors.

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