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What IH model was the equivalent to the JD 5010?


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55 minutes ago, dale560 said:

There is no doubt about IHC was caught flat footed and there pants down when JD came out with the 10 series tractors. Don’t get me wrong the 10s had teething problems but a tractor that had almost all new parts. The only thing close in IHC company was the 06 series but more so the 88 series And then the magnum prototypes. Why are JD tractor owners so loyal? The tractors actually were comfortable and dependable another key area was dealerships. Most JD dealers were dual dealerships some here were Buick and GMC dealers also. Sell gramdma a good Buick you have customers for life. A lot of case dealers were Chevy dealers also. And most JD dealers understood customer service. That is something the early Mcormick dealers had understood then as they grew lost that quality. The last thing is the 4010s were fairly reliable, the pto engine clutch was fairly well built, the synchro shift transmission shifted easily and wasn’t a mystery to figure out. You had low , high then reverse in the 4 range positions. If Jd would have labeled the range abcd like quad range was then had high , low reverse even the most narrow minded would understand. The hydraulic system was totally advanced for the time. Even back in 1992 you could buy a new pump from JD for 900 to 1100 for the 4wd tractors. Not 60,000. And lastly if you read the operation manual and reset the throttle to cycle the excess fuel device a 30 series started not to bad. That being said we are all IHC tractors now have a few of them. I like all tractors and look for the best in any make

The $60,000 figure came from him not me and it's on a tractor that's five years old. I don't know the current Deere model numbers but it was 130-135 hp. The dollar figure may have come from both pumps together but that was the money that tractor cost in a short time. Regardless of the cost that shouldn't happen to a tractor that new with such low hours. As far as comparing 4430 to 1066 or 86 my dad didn't have to reset anything in it, it just ran like it was supposed to

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3 hours ago, Farmer in training said:

The $60,000 figure came from him not me and it's on a tractor that's five years old. I don't know the current Deere model numbers but it was 130-135 hp. The dollar figure may have come from both pumps together but that was the money that tractor cost in a short time. Regardless of the cost that shouldn't happen to a tractor that new with such low hours. As far as comparing 4430 to 1066 or 86 my dad didn't have to reset anything in it, it just ran like it was supposed to

If it is a new tractor of any model or make then it probably is 60,000 in parts and labor.

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5 hours ago, SDman said:

You guys make it sound like a 5010/5020/6030 was just a big, dumb oaf that decorated farmer's front yards. Hate to tell you, but the 6030 was a very versatile tractor around here. All the 6030s I can think of around here had 3pt. hitches, and were used for row-crop work. The one neighbor that literally farmed all around my Dad's farm planted all of his row crops with a 6030 for most years in the 1980s. We still planted with listers in the 1980s, so your planting tractor needed to have some HP. He planted with an IH #92 Cyclo lister that was 8RW. A lister digs a trench 6-8" deep and plants the seed in the bottom of the trench...Texans would recognize it as a middle buster with seed meters. Now, a 6030 would have been overkill for this, but it did the job for this neighbor for years. Another neighbor had a 1466 black stripe on the same lister size; it handled the lister, but it definitely knew something was back there. Part of the reason why this neighbor used his 6030 as a planter tractor was because....that was the best tractor available for this job for him. He had a Big Bud, a 310/325 Series III Steiger, a John Deere 7520 4wd(bought it new along with the 6030 in 1974-75), a John Deere 4230(that was his go-devil/cultivating tractor), and a fleet on 10 & 20 series New Generation Deeres from back in the 60s. He used to say that the 6030 got the most hours put on it in a year among his fleet of tractors. 

As far as a big, dumb oaf for a tractor, look at the IH 4300; there's a reason they only made 40-some of them. They were built for a market....that simply was just not there. IH offered very few implements that would need a 4300 to pull them. You sure could make a case that they were way ahead of their time, but the $$$ spent on R &D for the 4300 could have probably been better spent to produce a tractor that there were just 40-some made.

I can tell you one guy that sure would have been happy if IH would have developed a bigger horse going back to the early 1960s.....and that was my IH dealer. Most of the farms around here still did a lot of business with him for a lot of other IH equipment....tillage, planting, haying equipment. But when it came to bigger HP tractors, most of those guys didn't even give him or IH a chance....they went to Deere.

One thing I remember farmers talking about IH being behind on with harvesting equipment was the Quick-Attach header/feeder setup. IH came out with it in 1974 which was a few years behind most of their competitors.

As far as the Deere 40 series corn heads....they can thank Massy Ferguson for those as they were first company with that style of corn head. Why MF didn't take Deere to court like Deere did to IH on corn heads is lost on me. 

  I have to agree on the 5020, 6030, etc. .  They had to be at least OK if not leading edge for them to have sold around here at all.  More so in places like the Genesee River valley south of Rochester, NY.   A fair number had  18.4 X 38 dual wheels.  

 

  As to the corn heads there are a fair number of differences between a MF 1163 and JD 643 plus I have owned and worked on both.  I believe JD had theirs on the market in 1969 with the intro of the XX00 machines.  I don't recall any MF 300 or 410 combines with QT headers that early.  I don't think that the 300 had QT until 1975 shortly before they were discontinued.  Maybe JD filed their patents before MF if something seems similar.  

 

  I'd like to think that most here are very reasonable when critiquing IH and non IH products but I am surprised that many avoid NH's suits filed against IH over the rotary design, cut and blow forage harvester, and side delivery rake.  

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7 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I'd counter that IH had the advancements but they were dragging their feet because they felt most farmers were the "I DON'T LIKE CHANGE" types that would have reacted negatively to too much too soon. IH could have had the 06 series ready for 1960 had they just made the 450 for another year, but they decided to take one more "baby step" with the 60 series.

No doubt it was a poor decision, but it was a decision and it was based on the perceived market climate of the time.

  Farm equipment from the manufacturer's perspective is about marketing production lines at a profit.  IH was already building the 60 series engines for light truck applications so putting those engines into tractors was maximizing that production line's profit.  All the companies could see by the mid-1950's that farm numbers were declining and along with it tractor numbers.  So the 4 cylinder line that built so many H and M motors was going to decline in numbers and therefore profit.

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6 hours ago, dale560 said:

There is no doubt about IHC was caught flat footed and there pants down when JD came out with the 10 series tractors. Don’t get me wrong the 10s had teething problems but a tractor that had almost all new parts. The only thing close in IHC company was the 06 series but more so the 88 series And then the magnum prototypes. Why are JD tractor owners so loyal? The tractors actually were comfortable and dependable another key area was dealerships. Most JD dealers were dual dealerships some here were Buick and GMC dealers also. Sell gramdma a good Buick you have customers for life. A lot of case dealers were Chevy dealers also. And most JD dealers understood customer service. That is something the early Mcormick dealers had understood then as they grew lost that quality. The last thing is the 4010s were fairly reliable, the pto engine clutch was fairly well built, the synchro shift transmission shifted easily and wasn’t a mystery to figure out. You had low , high then reverse in the 4 range positions. If Jd would have labeled the range abcd like quad range was then had high , low reverse even the most narrow minded would understand. The hydraulic system was totally advanced for the time. Even back in 1992 you could buy a new pump from JD for 900 to 1100 for the 4wd tractors. Not 60,000. And lastly if you read the operation manual and reset the throttle to cycle the excess fuel device a 30 series started not to bad. That being said we are all IHC tractors now have a few of them. I like all tractors and look for the best in any make

  JD had a huge advantage in terms of financing.  I can attest that while a young starting farmer that JD was the easiest to line up credit for both in terms of equipment and services such as Farm Plan.  Maybe somebody could tell me different but at least around here most farm equipment dealers were not paired up with having an automobile franchise.  There was a JD dealer south of Rochester that also had an Agway franchise and fuel distribution franchise but that was the exception versus being the rule.  Most farm equipment dealerships here were hole in the wall type operations versus some of the palaces seen around other parts of the US.

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4 hours ago, dale560 said:

If it is a new tractor of any model or make then it probably is 60,000 in parts and labor.

Yea, I'm not trying to bash other brands here, just defending IH which my family had and is still having good luck with. Heck, I've done unspeakable things to JD 310 SG and SE's doing drainage work and have huge respect for them. Just seams like IH farm machinery doesn't get a fair shake when people give opinions on why they couldn't make it on their own. 

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Not that California was that big of a share of the market, but crawlers where a big part of ag until the big 4 wheel drive tillage tractors showed up. The IH gas start crawler had a very poor reputation. If they where babied they could go for a long time. Put a low wage lever puller on, it's 5 he can go home. Pulls up with hot engine and shuts her down as fast as he  can, not long and you have a cracked head. So a lot just did not consider a 806 or 1206.

Cat and John Deere were almost pardoners in the 30's out here. Most Cat dealers where also JD dealers. That lasted until 84 or so with the local dealership. So if ran a Cat was natural look at JD first for a wheel tractor.  

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The local ih dealer sold IH trucks (still does),  construction and AG but they were unusual in my area. Most ag dealers just sold ag equipment and maybe construction. Thx-Ace 

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17 hours ago, acem said:

The local ih dealer sold IH trucks (still does),  construction and AG but they were unusual in my area. Most ag dealers just sold ag equipment and maybe construction. Thx-Ace 

One of the closest IH dealers sold construction briefly as well as ag.  The dealer he replaced sold ag and trucks.  A JD dealer an hour and change away sold ag and industrial and thrived at both.  It was mostly Ford dealers who had automotive and ag around here but that died by the 1980's.  

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In the 1980s we had 3  IHC dealers within 25 miles. They all sold truck and ag equipment. Mostly they handled light trucks up to the 1800 and the s series but they could sell any truck. 2 John Deere dealers the one in our hometown sold John Deere and a bunch of shortline including bobcat skidsteer. The one in town south sold the same short lines, bobcats, and Buick GMC, their cousins sold ford and dodge autos in a separate location. In our town the Massey dealer sold Pontiac and Gmc. So there was a variety at all the stores. 

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On 10/3/2021 at 5:19 AM, Michael Halsall said:

The question has probably been asked before, but what IH tractor was equivalent to the JD 5010?                                                                                                                                            The JD 5010 was an enormous big standard tread tractor. I remember seeing one as a child and thinking "What a BIG tractor!" 

I've recently read that special tires had to be developed to fit the 5010, it was bigger than anything other than wheeled industrial tractors.

Regards from Michael H.🔧

P.S. Has anyone here had any experience with a JD 5010 or 5020 Jolly Green Giant?

Out here in Montana, you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a 5010/20 during their peak.  They were popular enough some of the JD 5020 literature referenced "Big Sky" country  Back in the day we farmed with a 5010 and later 5020.  I own a 5010 and a rowcrop 5020 today.  IH's equivalent to the 5010 was nothing. IH's equivalent to the 6030 was again nothing. IH did answer the 5020 with the 4100.  Some guys will disagree because one is a 2 wheel drive and the other a 4x4.  However, the fact is both were produced at the same time period and the same horsepower.  The 4100 made a decent showing around here and by far was more popular then the 1206/56.  The 1206/56 while could be turned up to out muscle a 5020 they wouldn't last with the way we farmed which is weighted down pulling big chisel plows up to from 24ft to 32ft.  What most don't know is what killed the 5020 was JD's own tractor the 4620.  Big block naturally aspirated engines were on their way out and with the 4620 being turboed, with the same hp and option of the Powershifts sales of the 5020 crashed.  JD only sold 623  5020s the last two years.  

The 6030 on the other hand was not very popular here.  The reason they weren't popular here is because everybody started to transition to 4 wheel drive tractors.  Add the high cost of the 6030 and sales were flat here.  I have one neighbor who back in the day wanted a 6030 but after pricing one out, he discovered a Versatile 900 didn't cost much more, was much nicer to run and had more power.  6030s were as expensive as Versatile and Steigers so farmers went with those.  Same thing could be said for 4840s.  Not too many around when you could buy a Versatile 875 for the same money.  7520s which were rated the same horsepower and used the same engine were much more popular for the JD crowd.  Back in the day the only 6030s in the neighborhood was the 2 owned by my cousins.  One they bought new and the other used.  The only reason they bought them was at the time they were running a feed lot and they needed tractors big enough to plow with yet something with a PTO and nimble enough to pull forage choppers.  These 6030s replaced a Cat D7 and IH TD 18A.  

 

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7 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

Out here in Montana, you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a 5010/20 during their peak.  They were popular enough some of the JD 5020 literature referenced "Big Sky" country  Back in the day we farmed with a 5010 and later 5020.  I own a 5010 and a rowcrop 5020 today.  IH's equivalent to the 5010 was nothing. IH's equivalent to the 6030 was again nothing. IH did answer the 5020 with the 4100.  Some guys will disagree because one is a 2 wheel drive and the other a 4x4.  However, the fact is both were produced at the same time period and the same horsepower.  The 4100 made a decent showing around here and by far was more popular then the 1206/56.  The 1206/56 while could be turned up to out muscle a 5020 they wouldn't last with the way we farmed which is weighted down pulling big chisel plows up to from 24ft to 32ft.  What most don't know is what killed the 5020 was JD's own tractor the 4620.  Big block naturally aspirated engines were on their way out and with the 4620 being turboed, with the same hp and option of the Powershifts sales of the 5020 crashed.  JD only sold 623  5020s the last two years.  

The 6030 on the other hand was not very popular here.  The reason they weren't popular here is because everybody started to transition to 4 wheel drive tractors.  Add the high cost of the 6030 and sales were flat here.  I have one neighbor who back in the day wanted a 6030 but after pricing one out, he discovered a Versatile 900 didn't cost much more, was much nicer to run and had more power.  6030s were as expensive as Versatile and Steigers so farmers went with those.  Same thing could be said for 4840s.  Not too many around when you could buy a Versatile 875 for the same money.  7520s which were rated the same horsepower and used the same engine were much more popular for the JD crowd.  Back in the day the only 6030s in the neighborhood was the 2 owned by my cousins.  One they bought new and the other used.  The only reason they bought them was at the time they were running a feed lot and they needed tractors big enough to plow with yet something with a PTO and nimble enough to pull forage choppers.  These 6030s replaced a Cat D7 and IH TD 18A.  

 

I owned a 4620 with a power shift,it was a really big piece of iron for sure. Just the front end was massive itself and it had huge wheel weights mounted inside the rear wheels. Just a heavy old girl ,ran great too. I never knew it would have replaced the 5020.

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I can't think of anything IH had in that era that would come close to the raw HP of the big Deere's , The engines were massive and the rear ends were formable too something IH had neither of 

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Considering how few of the big john deeres sold and IH's fiasco with the 4300 they probably thought it wasn't worth the risk to out do them with another big machine, not to mention they would have to build another machine from the ground up, and a new engine to power it with it wasn't worth the cost for such a small reward. John deere actually got suckered into building the 6030 by Steiger according to Lee Klancher's book red 4wd tractors.

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1 hour ago, 606 diesel said:

Considering how few of the big john deeres sold and IH's fiasco with the 4300 they probably thought it wasn't worth the risk to out do them with another big machine, not to mention they would have to build another machine from the ground up, and a new engine to power it with it wasn't worth the cost for such a small reward. John deere actually got suckered into building the 6030 by Steiger according to Lee Klancher's book red 4wd tractors.

I have that book too.  That whole Steiger fooling JD happened in the 80s.  Long after the 6030 hit the market and after they left the market.  Look at your book again.  Also, JD built over 5,000 5010s, 12,000 5020s, and 4,000 6030s.  I bet those numbers are greater than some of the specialty tractors IH spent money on that netted them nothing in the end.    Besides Case, White, and AC all introduced 6030 type tractors by the late 70s.

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7 hours ago, Big Bud guy said:

I have that book too.  That whole Steiger fooling JD happened in the 80s.  Long after the 6030 hit the market and after they left the market.  Look at your book again.  Also, JD built over 5,000 5010s, 12,000 5020s, and 4,000 6030s.  I bet those numbers are greater than some of the specialty tractors IH spent money on that netted them nothing in the end.    Besides Case, White, and AC all introduced 6030 type tractors by the late 70s.

You make it sound like Deere hit a home run with every tractor that rolled off their lines. How about all the specialty tractors that Deere came out with that netted them nothing in the end? I'm asking, I don't know.

Ultimately, though, IH's way won out. Deere quit making the "big" tractor after the 6030 and was putting 150+ HP through what was essentially the 4020 rear end in the 4840.

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On 10/8/2021 at 6:24 PM, Farmer in training said:

Yea, I'm not trying to bash other brands here, just defending IH which my family had and is still having good luck with. Heck, I've done unspeakable things to JD 310 SG and SE's doing drainage work and have huge respect for them. Just seams like IH farm machinery doesn't get a fair shake when people give opinions on why they couldn't make it on their own. 

    Isn't it remarkable just how many members on Red Power forum will bash IH and defend that green and yellow company... and have a fit if we bash their ridiculous over-rated iron? I would own a fleet of Belarus tractors before owning one single green and yellow one!  

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39 minutes ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Ultimately, though, IH's way won out. Deere quit making the "big" tractor after the 6030 and was putting 150+ HP through what was essentially the 4020 rear end in the 4840.

The 4840 was not built around the 4020 platform. The 4840 was the progression of the 6030. The 6030 was 175 hp and the 4840 was 180 hp. The 4640 and 4840 were similar to the 6030 in that they were an entirely different frame size from the rest of the lineup. The only thing that changed with 40 series is that all the larger row crop tractors used the 466 engine, but they were not all the same tractor with some different parts installed. A 4840 is a physically huge tractor compared to even a 4440. 

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11 minutes ago, Farmall Doctor said:

    Isn't it remarkable just how many members on Red Power forum will bash IH and defend that green and yellow company... and have a fit if we bash their ridiculous over-rated iron? I would own a fleet of Belarus tractors before owning one single green and yellow one!  

They all have their plus’s and minuses. I drive both for the guy I help. 

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1 hour ago, Farmall Doctor said:

    Isn't it remarkable just how many members on Red Power forum will bash IH and defend that green and yellow company... and have a fit if we bash their ridiculous over-rated iron? I would own a fleet of Belarus tractors before owning one single green and yellow one!  

Isn't it remarkable how a IH enthusiast red power member started a thread involving JD.  IF YOU GUYS DON'T LIKE JD, DON'T BRING THEM UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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2 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

You make it sound like Deere hit a home run with every tractor that rolled off their lines. How about all the specialty tractors that Deere came out with that netted them nothing in the end? I'm asking, I don't know.

And some if you make it sound like the 5010-6030 were marketing failures which is false.  Throw in the 4840 numbers and IH wishes they could have had all those sales since they were no 2 at this point.  

2 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Ultimately, though, IH's way won out. Deere quit making the "big" tractor after the 6030 and was putting 150+ HP through what was essentially the 4020 rear end in the 4840.

There is nothing true in that statement at all.  6030 evolved into the 4840 which evolved into the 4850 and so on. The big rowcrop tractor did not die with the 6030.  6030 was more then 150 hp.  4840s did not use 4020 rear ends.  You can see the size difference a mile away.  And what was IH's way anyway??  Build V8 rowcrop tractors to take on Massey?

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