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Deere Labor Contract


DOCTOR EVIL
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On 9/29/2021 at 10:07 AM, 766 Man said:

  I'd be surprised that in the case of the IH strike that the impact was as minimal as several lost houses and several divorces.  Those kind of strikes are far more devastating typically.  Most households I would guess were knocked on their ears financially.

I was speaking ONLY about the small circle of friends and coworkers I actually knew.  Over the entire 3500 FARMALL plant employees and IH as a whole,  Yes, the financial damage was many orders of magnitude worse.  I was just thinking of people I actually knew.  Lots of couples one worked at FARMALL, the spouse at Deere, or some other good company.  Back then CAT had two plants in Iowa which are both closed now.  And CASE had two plants that are both gone.  Now DEERE is all there is.

     I think this Deere strike could last a while. A Large LARGE majority voted for the strike.  I hope the idiot person that decided to give the CEO a 160% raise last year gets assigned trash collection duty at the corp. offices for the duration of the strike.  What an excellent message to send the bargaining unit!  I know there's some smart people at Deere,  Why didn't one of them speak up and kill this idea?

       I'd really be surprised if the strike is settled yet this year. I saw one comment on Facebook about salaried & management trying to run production.  That's never a good idea either.

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I am not against union workers. I am against the stupid ones. Sometime in in 70s my wifes step grandfather was the manager ( not sure of his title, but he was in charge) of a US Steel plant. One year at a stalemate in negotiations my wifes grandfather told the workers the company's final offer and if it was rejected the plant would close. The offer was rejected and many workers were saying how the union beat the company as they walked out the door for the last time. I hope the workers don't cut off thier noses like it has been done with other negotiations. 

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10 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I remember reading an article about the last strike at IH. It quoted some UAW “higher up” saying that the oceans would run dry before International Harvester ran out of money. I guess the drought started pretty quick after that. 

  Plenty of stupidity to go around in all companies in terms of union and management.  When people start seeing that then maybe there will be some long term peace in the corporate world.  

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I think I would caution BOTH sides to look at history.  These things never end well.  Deere needs to realize that they have to SHARE some of those record profits with their employees.  And the employees need to realize that if they push too hard, they will be replaced or production will be moved elsewhere.

UAW recent history has been ok, but the past shows that they were way to greedy at one point.  Not sure how Deere is currently treating employees, but this is serious.  Both sides are playing with fire, both will get burned badly if they aren't reasonable.

 

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The profit only needs to be shared with employees if the employees are going to donate money to Deere in the event of a loss. Deere has lost money before, and not that long ago. If it’s going to be a two way street then that’s fine, but I doubt too many employees would be willing to write a check at the end of the year to cover Deere’s losses. 

I know it’s not exactly the same, but when times are good here, the employees always want a cut. When I have lost money, they don’t care. They still want their money, even if I have to borrow to pay it. 

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2 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

The profit only needs to be shared with employees if the employees are going to donate money to Deere in the event of a loss. Deere has lost money before, and not that long ago. If it’s going to be a two way street then that’s fine, but I doubt too many employees would be willing to write a check at the end of the year to cover Deere’s losses. 

I know it’s not exactly the same, but when times are good here, the employees always want a cut. When I have lost money, they don’t care. They still want their money, even if I have to borrow to pay it. 

Part of that is the feeling that they are entitled to a share. They want a share? Then they need to invest into the company. As long as the company pays what it promises and provides whatever benefits were agreed on they are being treated fairly. 

 

Rick

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   The big parts distribution warehouse in Milan Illinois put salaried and managers to work picking & packing parts immediately,  guys need their combine parts!  But they picked as many parts ALL day as the Union work force pick in an hour.  I'm sure the pace will pick up as long as they can keep getting parts in from outside suppliers or the Deere plants.  I'm sure Harvester is running only service parts too.  But there are rumors they may try to build a combine.

     I guess the first tractor driven off the assembly line in Waterloo was driven into a support beam and crushed an electrical breaker box, killing all the lights in the area.  

     This strike may not last as long as I first thought.  A LOT of the managers and clerical people and engineers at FARMALL started on the shop floor,  lots of the Deere people hired into those positions off the street.  The knowledge of how things are assembled, really bolted together, is not there.  I REALLY hope nobody at any of the plants get injured trying to do something they have no experience doing and little if any training.

    Guess somebody at Deere, or somebody supporting Deere called Deere a "Premier Employer" but wasn't aware of the two tier wage scale Deere has had since the contract of '97,  You can get a job at Dollar General stocking shelves making substantially more than starting at Deere in the bargaining unit.   Now keep in mind, a LOT of the contract wage scale imbalance, and benefit disparity is 100% the Union old-timer's falt, they all voted to rob from future hires so they could continue their high wages and benefits.  Those old timers, a lot have retired now, the new hires at the reduced wages want more money and benefits, they feel it's their turn now.  But a portion of the new record high profits is from that reduced pay and benefits those retired old employees approved.  Now Deere is having a hard time finding people. Deere has to compete with WAL-MART.

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24 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

lots of the Deere people hired into those positions off the street.  The knowledge of how things are assembled, really bolted together, is not there.

See this so much anymore in all business, instead of promoting from within you bring it outsiders who "talk a good talk".  I'm sure some are very qualified but theres a lot of snake oil salesmen too just wanting to get a paycheck and dont fully understand what goes on. 

This also breeds animosity in the rank and file realizing theres nowhere to move up as they age and gain experience.  

I have "0" pity for Deere (and other MFGR's as well) who have done nothing but find ways to further monopolize the market by consolidating dealers, stifling competition, and playing labor games.  

I really cant stand a lot of union shenanigans but I believe they have a solid beef here.  

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52 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

   The big parts distribution warehouse in Milan Illinois put salaried and managers to work picking & packing parts immediately,  guys need their combine parts!  But they picked as many parts ALL day as the Union work force pick in an hour.  I'm sure the pace will pick up as long as they can keep getting parts in from outside suppliers or the Deere plants.  I'm sure Harvester is running only service parts too.  But there are rumors they may try to build a combine.

     I guess the first tractor driven off the assembly line in Waterloo was driven into a support beam and crushed an electrical breaker box, killing all the lights in the area.  

     This strike may not last as long as I first thought.  A LOT of the managers and clerical people and engineers at FARMALL started on the shop floor,  lots of the Deere people hired into those positions off the street.  The knowledge of how things are assembled, really bolted together, is not there.  I REALLY hope nobody at any of the plants get injured trying to do something they have no experience doing and little if any training.

    Guess somebody at Deere, or somebody supporting Deere called Deere a "Premier Employer" but wasn't aware of the two tier wage scale Deere has had since the contract of '97,  You can get a job at Dollar General stocking shelves making substantially more than starting at Deere in the bargaining unit.   Now keep in mind, a LOT of the contract wage scale imbalance, and benefit disparity is 100% the Union old-timer's falt, they all voted to rob from future hires so they could continue their high wages and benefits.  Those old timers, a lot have retired now, the new hires at the reduced wages want more money and benefits, they feel it's their turn now.  But a portion of the new record high profits is from that reduced pay and benefits those retired old employees approved.  Now Deere is having a hard time finding people. Deere has to compete with WAL-MART.

  Minimum wage here in NY is closing in fast on 15 dollars per hour.  When minimum wage was around 10 dollars per hour manufacturing was running maybe a dollar per hour higher than the service sector.  In the YT thread about JD mention was made about the "junior" employees making 25 dollars per hour.  Nobody is making that around here in terms of blue collar jobs.  I would suspect that most of management around here does not make 25 dollars per hour if their salary was prorated to hours worked.  Last I knew Farm Credit loan officers made 16-18 dollars per hour and with the declining number of farms puts the cards in FC hands in terms of negotiating.  I would suspect that most senior level employees in area businesses make similar wages.  It's not pretty out there and is going to get worse before it gets better.  There is always a lag factor as the calendar flips over.  The 1960's hung on until 1973 and the 1970's hung on until 1983.  The 20th Century hung on until the late teens but the world today is losing any resemblance to what it was just 20 years ago.  Not going to be a fun ride for us who have been around for a few decades and used to a certain way of flow to things.

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9 minutes ago, Cdfarabaugh said:

See this so much anymore in all business, instead of promoting from within you bring it outsiders who "talk a good talk".  I'm sure some are very qualified but theres a lot of snake oil salesmen too just wanting to get a paycheck and dont fully understand what goes on. 

This also breeds animosity in the rank and file realizing theres nowhere to move up as they age and gain experience.  

I have "0" pity for Deere (and other MFGR's as well) who have done nothing but find ways to further monopolize the market by consolidating dealers, stifling competition, and playing labor games.  

I really cant stand a lot of union shenanigans but I believe they have a solid beef here.  

  The world has gone crazy.  I always thought I did it "right" by the standards of my youth.  I went to college for four years with two of them at Cornell.  By the time I hit 25 years of age you would have thought that I wasted four years at clown college.  Human Resources types had become enamored with prospects that had degrees in finger painting for management positions.  It was all about finding an edge versus going with the tried and true.

  As far as JD goes my understanding is a lot of the junior employees make 25 dollars per hour.  That is well above minimum wage for the Quad Cities area.  They agreed to a contract and yes the senior employees sold them down the river.  The time for this was when the next contract was up for negotiating.  Most people do not get to share in the bounty when their employer a good year.  Has anybody here given their employees a bonus when commodities were very strong just several years back?  Did not think so.  Also, as far as JD working the system they are late to the game.  An area employer here did that decades ago and broke the union.  Probably as late as 2021 there is nobody left there from the old days but go back to the 1990's there were 8.00 dollar per hour new hires working along side 16 dollar per hour old timers.

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@oldtanker is right. If they want a share they should invest in the company. If you want a return you have to take a risk. Punching a time clock is not taking a risk.
 

I overnighted some parts yesterday from Deere for Saturday delivery. They didn’t show up. As far as I’m concerned Deere can just fire them all. I pay the bills at John Deere and if the Union doesn’t think it’s important to supply parts now, then I couldn’t care less what happens to them. Farmers don’t forget stuff like this and this is going to leave a bad taste in many customers mouth. Without farmers there is no need for most of John Deere to exist and the union couldn’t care less about what we are supposed to do without the parts we need. 

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1 hour ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

@oldtanker is right. If they want a share they should invest in the company. If you want a return you have to take a risk. Punching a time clock is not taking a risk.
 

I overnighted some parts yesterday from Deere for Saturday delivery. They didn’t show up. As far as I’m concerned Deere can just fire them all. I pay the bills at John Deere and if the Union doesn’t think it’s important to supply parts now, then I couldn’t care less what happens to them. Farmers don’t forget stuff like this and this is going to leave a bad taste in many customers mouth. Without farmers there is no need for most of John Deere to exist and the union couldn’t care less about what we are supposed to do without the parts we need. 

I agree in that production workers seldom have a stake in the larger game.  As to the rest of it be careful as what you wish for.  JD through Farm Plan keeps a lot of farmers among other folk going in terms of being able to run a business.  That as long as people keep their bill paid they can keep on using JD Credit.  That they do not have to worry about a fickle local bank or Farm Credit who might be more inclined to side with their neighbor over them.  Pioneer Seed Credit (PHI) used to be a great place to line up financing for seed purchases but no more.  Since they were bought out several years ago they are just another company.  More interested in overall credit ratings versus your ability to pay.  Don't be late on your bills even if you are waiting on prices, trucking, rail, elevator check, etc. because no excuses will be accepted.  Farmers have enough problems and the love affair between farmer and creditor that came out of 8 dollar corn and 16 dollar soybeans has long been over.  

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On 10/14/2021 at 5:47 AM, DOCTOR EVIL said:

I hope the idiot person that decided to give the CEO a 160% raise last year gets assigned trash collection duty at the corp. offices for the duration of the strike.  What an excellent message to send the bargaining unit!  I know there's some smart people at Deere,  Why didn't one of them speak up and kill this idea?

     

Do you know the context of John May’s compensation Increase? He was the COO and was moved into the CEO position when his predecessor left JD. CEO pay is obviously higher than COO pay. Over half his salary is company stock and stock options. And there isn’t one “idiot person” who establishes CEO pay, that is determined by the Board of Directors. 
Deere employs about 70,000 people. If ALL of his compensation was taken and divided equally it wouldn’t amount to much for each person. Executive pay is irrelevant to hourly assembly line workers. They’re not going to find a qualified CEO to run JD for a couple hundred grand per year. 

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If a person who started out as a line or more entry level worker was brought up into an upper position such as CEO, he/she might work for the “couple hundred grand”. The person with a masters in underwater basket weaving that is normally brought in as a fresh face is merely a puppet for others. Many CEO’s make multi-million dollar bonuses that could be dispersed among workers.  Even if it wasn’t much $$, the employee would remember that.  A very high percentage of companies view people as a number only. Corporations are greedy by nature, thus using greedy people to play the roles needed to bring in the dollars. Sell your soul to the devil and see where it gets you....

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12 minutes ago, 766 Man said:

I agree in that production workers seldom have a stake in the larger game.  As to the rest of it be careful as what you wish for.  JD through Farm Plan keeps a lot of farmers among other folk going in terms of being able to run a business.  That as long as people keep their bill paid they can keep on using JD Credit.  That they do not have to worry about a fickle local bank or Farm Credit who might be more inclined to side with their neighbor over them.  Pioneer Seed Credit (PHI) used to be a great place to line up financing for seed purchases but no more.  Since they were bought out several years ago they are just another company.  More interested in overall credit ratings versus your ability to pay.  Don't be late on your bills even if you are waiting on prices, trucking, rail, elevator check, etc. because no excuses will be accepted.  Farmers have enough problems and the love affair between farmer and creditor that came out of 8 dollar corn and 16 dollar soybeans has long been over.  

I’m not sure what I am wishing for other than people to do the job they were hired to do. The Union has put the people in a bind who pay their salary. How on earth is it in the unions favor to not supply customers what they NEED. There is much more at stake here than “sticking” it to the management. If this goes on very long I guarantee people will switch brands over this nonsense because they know they can’t be counted on to supply what they need in the most important time of the year. The people in the union need to get their heads in reality. Their paycheck says John Deere on it, but where does John Deere get their money? We’re not talking about me buying a new tractor because I think it’s neat. I’m broke down right now. I called the dealer and they couldn’t get me what I needed. The union will get no sympathy from me. 

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7 minutes ago, MTB98 said:

Do you know the context of John May’s compensation Increase? He was the COO and was moved into the CEO position when his predecessor left JD. CEO pay is obviously higher than COO pay. Over half his salary is company stock and stock options. And there isn’t one “idiot person” who establishes CEO pay, that is determined by the Board of Directors. 
Deere employs about 70,000 people. If ALL of his compensation was taken and divided equally it wouldn’t amount to much for each person. Executive pay is irrelevant to hourly assembly line workers. They’re not going to find a qualified CEO to run JD for a couple hundred grand per year. 

  True as to finding someone who will be a CEO for a couple hundred grand per year.  But it seems like the Peter Principle at work that somebody moves into a position that they are not suited for more often than not.  I saw it while working for Central Tractor during the 1990's.  Jim McKitrick was a terrible CEO who I think was only interested in building the value of his portfolio up and could not even do that.  I can still remember all the useless mantras that guy forwarded to the stores while that ship was sinking.  That guy thought he could run with a narrow product line and take on Walmart.  CT's buying power at best was a drop in a bucket of water compared to Walmart.

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1 minute ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I’m not sure what I am wishing for other than people to do the job they were hired to do. The Union has put the people in a bind who pay their salary. How on earth is it in the unions favor to not supply customers what they NEED. There is much more at stake here than “sticking” it to the management. If this goes on very long I guarantee people will switch brands over this nonsense because they know they can’t be counted on to supply what they need in the most important time of the year. The people in the union need to get their heads in reality. Their paycheck says John Deere on it, but where does John Deere get their money? We’re not talking about me buying a new tractor because I think it’s neat. I’m broke down right now. I called the dealer and they couldn’t get me what I needed. The union will get no sympathy from me. 

Most union workers are at the mercy of the shot callers higher up. Not making light of your parts issue in any way, but you take a job at a union factory and you are a union member. There isn’t much choice.  If you choose not to pay dues, you become a “scab” and are publicized as such. All the “stuff” roles down hill. I’d be willing to bet that most of the JD workers want to be working vs dealing with this. 

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The whole world is crazy,why should a CEO make 10,20,30 times more then a worker on the line and a the worker be called greedy just because he wants to make a living, not drive junk,take a vacation or two a year,put money away for his children and his retirement. 

 

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27 minutes ago, Jacka said:

The whole world is crazy,why should a CEO make 10,20,30 times more then a worker on the line and a the worker be called greedy just because he wants to make a living, not drive junk,take a vacation or two a year,put money away for his children and his retirement. 

 

Why should a line worker get all those benefits if the company can fill the job someplace else for less.  They should get as much as they can absolutely!  but, i worry that some people think JD wouldnt make a certain "Hard decision" if a spreadsheet told them to,  because,  they would.   How many millions would it be worth to you to be the guy that yanks 10000 US jobs and sends them overseas?  Thats why you get the big raise,  so youll be the guy who gets branded as the man who destroyed an american icon.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

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