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Electric tractors


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Just now, m.c.farmerboy said:

i'm afraid we are going backwards in this country, if battery powered tractors was the way to go they'd already be doing it!!

and if Calf was setting the standard for the country we would be done already!

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I've mentioned it in other posts and outlined my reasoning for my thoughts... There will come a day when a practical battery solution will be developed, and the electrification of transportation and mobile industrial equipment will seem to happen overnight. When that technology matures and is affordable, we will not have to be forced or coerced into adopting it, we will welcome it.

In our current technological state, electric power in stationary equipment is quite superior to IC reciprocating engine power. Electric motors are far more power dense, require much less upkeep, last much longer, can start/stop "at will"... if we only had a real battery to make them mobile.

I could get into a long winded explanation on potential vs active energy, chemical conversions we use for storage, inherent inefficiency....

But imagine if, you could afford a device that would collect, store, and controllably release a bolt of lightning. ZAP, and you have enough power to operate for a year. No powerplants, no windmills, no solar farms.

We can't do it now, but if you were to go back 200 yrs and tell folks we would be driving cars, talking on cell phones, watch a man walk on the moon on a tv...

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The problem with electric tractors is that the time you can work a short time with one charge and charging takes a long time. 

This is very problematic specially in higher horse power ranges and during the harvest when you make long days and work in shifts. Refueling a tractor with diesel will take less valuable times than recharging a tractor with the same amount off horsepower. 

 

The people who want to ban dieselengines in tractors never worked with a tractor or has seen one for real. Like Eisenhouwer said ''Farming looks mighty easy when your plow is a pencil and you're a thousand miles from the corn field.''

 

I think electric tractors only will only be usefull in the compact tractor class. 

5 minutes ago, Cattech said:

I've mentioned it in other posts and outlined my reasoning for my thoughts... There will come a day when a practical battery solution will be developed, and the electrification of transportation and mobile industrial equipment will seem to happen overnight. When that technology matures and is affordable, we will not have to be forced or coerced into adopting it, we will welcome it.

In our current technological state, electric power in stationary equipment is quite superior to IC reciprocating engine power. Electric motors are far more power dense, require much less upkeep, last much longer, can start/stop "at will"... if we only had a real battery to make them mobile.

I could get into a long winded explanation on potential vs active energy, chemical conversions we use for storage, inherent inefficiency....

But imagine if, you could afford a device that would collect, store, and controllably release a bolt of lightning. ZAP, and you have enough power to operate for a year. No powerplants, no windmills, no solar farms.

We can't do it now, but if you were to go back 200 yrs and tell folks we would be driving cars, talking on cell phones, watch a man walk on the moon on a tv...

Storing a large amount off electricity in a small package is very dangerous and will be very explosive when things go wrong. Hydrogen what also is seen as an potential replacement, but it's has a lower energy density than diesel and is more flammable than gasoline because it's a gas. Diesel is has a higher energy density and you can drop a sigaret bud in it and it wouldn't ignite like gasoline.

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10 minutes ago, jordi 1455 said:

Storing a large amount off electricity in a small package is very dangerous and will be very explosive when things go wrong......

ignite like gasoline.

With today's technology, you are 100% correct. Trust me I know firsthand about the dangers of gasoline and I have a lot of training on dangers of high voltage. 

Just don't say never going to happen. Today's high tech is tomorrow's obsolete. One new idea or tech could completely inverse what we currently "know".

Who knows what could happen.... some Sci-Fi movie style source of energy could fall in our laps. 100 yrs from now, electricity could be relegated to museums. We just haven't imagined it yet.

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On 9/28/2021 at 11:20 PM, U-C said:

Minneapolis Moline back in the late 30s or early 40s was a pioneer when it came to LP gas fueled tractors, I have read an article that DEUTZ company has developed a new Hydrogen Engine. 

Well, IH couldn't have been too far behind Minny,  they had LP in the late 1940's.

    Hydrogen is actually an EXCELLENT motor fuel, it's a gaseous vapor just like LP,  and it's raw material is WATER, split a water molecule and you have two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, you need the oxygen to burn anything.  THIS is the direction the car/truck/tractor companies should concentrate on.  It provides a fuel that can be transported like LP, stored like LP.

   The Lithium Ion batteries used in most cordless power tools and hybred cars & trucks are DANGEROUS.  They catch on fire, I can't really explain why, but they burn fiercly hot and are terribly hard to extinguish. Car or truck in a garage catches fire you can kiss the house good-bye too.  Fire departments are requesting instructions from electric car mfg's how to extinguish the cars and batteries.  I suppose they are using a lot of magnesium castings or formed parts in these electric cars which also is extremely flammable.  The lithium in the batteries is not a real plentiful mineral in the planet, it's present with several other metals in wetlands and they evaporate the water to get to the lithium.  Sources say we could exhaust the planets supply of lithium by 2040. That's not very long. Roughly 18 years.

    The hydrogen powered engine makes the most sense by far.  The major byproduct of burning hydrogen gas and oxygen is WATER VAPOR,  you use electricity to split the hydrogen and oxygen atoms apart and you make more fuel.

   So YES, I'd say DEUTZ is headed in the right direction.  And I think EVERYONE should fall in line quickly.

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1 hour ago, jordi 1455 said:

 

The problem with electric tractors is that the time you can work a short time with one charge and charging takes a long time. 

 

See I didn’t know the tractor actually had to be at the charging station. I was under the impression that the battery was removable and a fresh charged battery was kept near the operation, like a tank of fuel. Wouldn’t be any big deal to rig up a gantry crane, but most BTOs have crane body service trucks anyway.

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I believe it is called monarch tractor company. They have a 70 horsepower tractor that is good for several hours and it comes with a second battery. The thought is to swap battery packs and charge them over night. I believe it is developed for orchards and vineyards.

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1 hour ago, nomorejohndeere said:

Maybe someday they can figure how to run a tractor on bullshyt

 

My neighbor runs green tractors in his operation and whenever I talk to him I guarantee you his tractors run on bullshyt! 😎😁

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On 9/29/2021 at 8:57 AM, oldtanker said:

Why would they for just CA farmers? Not enough sales to pay for the engineering. 

 

Rick

RICK - It won't be just California, it'll be the whole US and maybe several foreign countries too. California started car polution laws in the late 1960's, rest of the states adopted them in 1970's.  Why would this electric tractor, car, truck be any different.  Deere's biggest articulated endloader is diesel-electric, 4 wheel motors driven by a 536 hp diesel engine, running an alternator/generator. Railroad trains have been this way for close to 100 years, very efficient!

  Saw an episode of Modern Marvels on the History channel back in March.  Episode was filmed in 2005.  Large portion explained how BRAZIL grows sugar cane, makes sugar, and processes it into ethanol, 15 Million acres of sugar cane into 4 billion gallons of ethanol in 2004. They do import some oil to make gasoline & diesel fuel.  Gasoline was $2.20 liter, ethanol $0.97/liter. The ethanol fuel makes 107 hp in a popular engine, the gasoline/ethanol blend makes 105.  They clearly stated that processing the sugar cane into sugar and then into ethanol was "Carbon Neutral".

    So far only people pushing electric cars is politcians, and couple auto companies trying to milk a profitable cash cow.  Saw an "IH"? medium duty battery powered truck on Facebook this AM, 135 mile range,  totally inadaquate, the one truck I drove had 300 mile range, but my daily run was over 350, so had to gas up on both ends. Terrible waste of time. My big diesel truck had one 115 gal fuel tank, got about 4 mpg,  some nights I had to buy 20-30 gallons of fuel to get home.  Madison, Wisconsin made a BIG deal about NOTHING, month or two ago, Pierce Mfg delivered the first ever in the World electric fire truck, actually a hybred, had batteries and elec motor with 35 mile range, and a 350 hp diesel in case it has to stay at the fire a while.

     The diesel engine has been refined into a very efficient power source, gasoline, alcohol, lp, natural gas, etc aren't even close, but they at least offer enough run time to make battery powered electric seem as a total waste of time.

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1 hour ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

  Hydrogen is actually an EXCELLENT motor fuel, it's a gaseous vapor just like LP,  and it's raw material is WATER, split a water molecule and you have two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom, you need the oxygen to burn anything.  THIS is the direction the car/truck/tractor companies should concentrate on.  It provides a fuel that can be transported like LP, stored like LP.

I agree with you that we should probably be working toward hydrogen. You compare it to LP, however there are significant differences. The primary difference is how it is stored. LP can be compressed into a liquid at a relatively low pressure. Hydrogen must be compressed to several thousand psi instead of several hundred for LP. This requires the tanks to be much heavier for a given volume thus adding a significant amount of weight. 
A second difference is it’s explosive nature. LP is combustible only in a given concentration, 10-20% going on my memory. Hydrogen is combustible in a much wider range of concentrations. Something like 5-95% again going on my memory. The point is that it is much more dangerous than LP when you have a leak. And you will have a leak. 
These are merely problems that can be addressed to make hydrogen work. 

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2 hours ago, Cattech said:

With today's technology, you are 100% correct. Trust me I know firsthand about the dangers of gasoline and I have a lot of training on dangers of high voltage. 

Just don't say never going to happen. Today's high tech is tomorrow's obsolete. One new idea or tech could completely inverse what we currently "know".

Who knows what could happen.... some Sci-Fi movie style source of energy could fall in our laps. 100 yrs from now, electricity could be relegated to museums. We just haven't imagined it yet.

According to some Si-Fi movies we should now have flying cars. 

 

2 hours ago, nomorejohndeere said:

Maybe someday they can figure how to run a tractor on bullshyt

 

New Holland has one. 

https://agriculture.newholland.com/eu/en-uk/equipment/products/agricultural-tractors/t6-methane-power

37 minutes ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

RICK - It won't be just California, it'll be the whole US and maybe several foreign countries too. California started car polution laws in the late 1960's, rest of the states adopted them in 1970's.  Why would this electric tractor, car, truck be any different.  Deere's biggest articulated endloader is diesel-electric, 4 wheel motors driven by a 536 hp diesel engine, running an alternator/generator. Railroad trains have been this way for close to 100 years, very efficient!

  Saw an episode of Modern Marvels on the History channel back in March.  Episode was filmed in 2005.  Large portion explained how BRAZIL grows sugar cane, makes sugar, and processes it into ethanol, 15 Million acres of sugar cane into 4 billion gallons of ethanol in 2004. They do import some oil to make gasoline & diesel fuel.  Gasoline was $2.20 liter, ethanol $0.97/liter. The ethanol fuel makes 107 hp in a popular engine, the gasoline/ethanol blend makes 105.  They clearly stated that processing the sugar cane into sugar and then into ethanol was "Carbon Neutral".

    So far only people pushing electric cars is politcians, and couple auto companies trying to milk a profitable cash cow.  Saw an "IH"? medium duty battery powered truck on Facebook this AM, 135 mile range,  totally inadaquate, the one truck I drove had 300 mile range, but my daily run was over 350, so had to gas up on both ends. Terrible waste of time. My big diesel truck had one 115 gal fuel tank, got about 4 mpg,  some nights I had to buy 20-30 gallons of fuel to get home.  Madison, Wisconsin made a BIG deal about NOTHING, month or two ago, Pierce Mfg delivered the first ever in the World electric fire truck, actually a hybred, had batteries and elec motor with 35 mile range, and a 350 hp diesel in case it has to stay at the fire a while.

     The diesel engine has been refined into a very efficient power source, gasoline, alcohol, lp, natural gas, etc aren't even close, but they at least offer enough run time to make battery powered electric seem as a total waste of time.

There is an company who is developing an engine who runs like a diesel and runs on ethanol.

https://www.clearflameengines.com/engine-manufacturers/

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1 hour ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

RICK - It won't be just California, it'll be the whole US and maybe several foreign countries too. California started car polution laws in the late 1960's, rest of the states adopted them in 1970's.  Why would this electric tractor, car, truck be any different.  Deere's biggest articulated endloader is diesel-electric, 4 wheel motors driven by a 536 hp diesel engine, running an alternator/generator. Railroad trains have been this way for close to 100 years, very efficient!

  Saw an episode of Modern Marvels on the History channel back in March.  Episode was filmed in 2005.  Large portion explained how BRAZIL grows sugar cane, makes sugar, and processes it into ethanol, 15 Million acres of sugar cane into 4 billion gallons of ethanol in 2004. They do import some oil to make gasoline & diesel fuel.  Gasoline was $2.20 liter, ethanol $0.97/liter. The ethanol fuel makes 107 hp in a popular engine, the gasoline/ethanol blend makes 105.  They clearly stated that processing the sugar cane into sugar and then into ethanol was "Carbon Neutral".

    So far only people pushing electric cars is politcians, and couple auto companies trying to milk a profitable cash cow.  Saw an "IH"? medium duty battery powered truck on Facebook this AM, 135 mile range,  totally inadaquate, the one truck I drove had 300 mile range, but my daily run was over 350, so had to gas up on both ends. Terrible waste of time. My big diesel truck had one 115 gal fuel tank, got about 4 mpg,  some nights I had to buy 20-30 gallons of fuel to get home.  Madison, Wisconsin made a BIG deal about NOTHING, month or two ago, Pierce Mfg delivered the first ever in the World electric fire truck, actually a hybred, had batteries and elec motor with 35 mile range, and a 350 hp diesel in case it has to stay at the fire a while.

     The diesel engine has been refined into a very efficient power source, gasoline, alcohol, lp, natural gas, etc aren't even close, but they at least offer enough run time to make battery powered electric seem as a total waste of time.

Thing is in CA they want to get rid of the IC engine completely. Won't be a diesel electric. It will be battery only.

Rick 

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