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Well Isn't This Nifty!!


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I bet you didn't know, or even thought about it, but a hydraulic PTO unit from a 656 through 686 will fit in a Super MTA! Drive shaft is the perfect length and everything! I am changing the PTO unit in a MTA Diesel, and i looked over at the 686 unit I had on the floor and though "no way... I wonder... I bet..."  and sure enough, perfect fit! Haha. 

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I was thinking the PTO input shaft goes different rpm between the two units? The old style had planetary in the back unit . I maybe wrong , have been plenty times before

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11 minutes ago, bitty said:

I was thinking the PTO input shaft goes different rpm between the two units? The old style had planetary in the back unit . I maybe wrong , have been plenty times before

Good point! You are correct.... but I wonder what the speed difference would be.

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15 minutes ago, ksfarmdude said:

Get a hand tach and see really simple  to do

Even simpler, I just counted shaft revolutions on the MTA unit. 1.5 revolutions on the input equals 1 revolution on the output shaft.  So that means if someone decided to use the hydraulic unit, they would get 810 RPM output.

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I don't have to count thou just put it on the pto at rated speed and get an accurate speed takes longer to get the tach out of the box  than it does to check rpm

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The gear on the front that drives the pto on a 560 is different between the planetary and the over center clutch style. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a speed difference. Interesting I am now wondering when you check the speed what it will be.

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.......the Australian    made IH's used that identical    IPTO.......I fitted one on the back of a BTD 8   ...which  enabled me to run a big old trailing excavator.....

...the IPTO  came off a A554   tractor that i brought, new........Not a good picture.....but the red paint is the giveaway  !!

Mike

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1 hour ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

Sounds like the rear end was essentially unchanged from the M to the 686.....

Its alot different than the M days

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2 hours ago, mike newman said:

.......the Australian    made IH's used that identical    IPTO.......I fitted one on the back of a BTD 8   ...which  enabled me to run a big old trailing excavator.....

...the IPTO  came off a A554   tractor that i brought, new........Not a good picture.....but the red paint is the giveaway  !!

Mike

post-157-1185677964.jpg

...another  , poor, picture..of the trailing    ''back hoe''...not that you can see the darn thing.......The tractor is a British   634.....one of only 4000  made...BD  281   engine....Did a lot of work with this combo.....The old "  Hoe ""    had  360  degree swing.....quite usefull......especially with the BTD  8, in front of it.   Incidently, the BTD  8  also had the 281 engine.....Parts for which   , are virtually   non  existant....

Mike

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2 hours ago, mike newman said:

.......the Australian    made IH's used that identical    IPTO.......I fitted one on the back of a BTD 8   ...which  enabled me to run a big old trailing excavator.....

...the IPTO  came off a A554   tractor that i brought, new........Not a good picture.....but the red paint is the giveaway  !!

Mike

post-157-1185677964.jpg

I see you are waiting to hold back the flash flood

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2 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I’m not sure if what this says is good or bad? Is it a good sign that 86 series tractor parts fit on an M or is that a bad sign?

I think it is a great idea to keep commonality when possible. Back to the mid 90's every Chevy I ever drove had one of 2 different starters. Straight or staggered bolt pattern. Didn't matter if it was a straight 6 or a 454 . Radiator in the 66-86 was the same if you had the threaded boss to put the level sending unit in for the 86 .

Not only is it cheaper this way but it's way more convenient. I am able to stock many of the parts I might need because of this fact 

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5 hours ago, bitty said:

 

Not only is it cheaper this way but it's way more convenient. I am able to stock many of the parts I might need because of this fact 

Yep, it's cheaper from the very first spark of inspiration to create something new all the way to the end of the physical parts useful productive lifetime.  Most cases no pattern change needed to make the " new casting",  most times just a machining or tooling change makes any and all variations.

   As we all found out here, Change was something IH managed fairly well.  And I well remember all the pain-in-the-neck engineers at other companies that randomly changed hundreds of parts because somebody wanted one simple function or feature modified.  Most of those fiasco's involved electrical and electronic parts.

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8 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I’m not sure if what this says is good or bad? Is it a good sign that 86 series tractor parts fit on an M or is that a bad sign?

The 686 is completely different than the rest of the 86 series. It is kind of an orphan. I don't know if the PTO would be the same or not. 

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3 hours ago, 12_Guy said:

The 686 is completely different than the rest of the 86 series. It is kind of an orphan. I don't know if the PTO would be the same or not. 

The 686 is hardly an orphan, but it is the last in its lineage. It can trace its roots back to the H and M.

Aside from the engine and hood styling, the 686 is basically unchanged from the 666 and 656. The 656 being basically a beefed up and updated 460 chassis, fixing the problems with the 460 and allowing it to handle more power.

Yes, 460, NOT 560. Put the two side by side, inspect, and measure. I have. The 656 uses the smaller bell housing and rear end housing dimensions. It's not an updated 560 like some people believe.

You could go so far as to bolt an H front half to a 656 bell housing, I am confident of that. If the 666 and 686 have the bolt holes in the front of the bell housing you could do the same with those tractors.

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4 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

The 686 is hardly an orphan, but it is the last in its lineage. It can trace its roots back to the H and M.

Yeah, perhaps orphan is the wrong word. I am aware of the 686’s roots. I simply meant that it didn’t share much with the rest of the ‘86 series. 

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Maybe one could say they take after their (M)om....😁

I run my 540 genset with an adapter on the 1000.   It takes a tractor with a good governor and a little patience to get the RPM set right.

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