47 Baler knotter

[IH OAK]

We have a IH 47 baler and one of the knotter castings broke on me last night.

Does anyone have a used one I can get hold of?

  

What is the part number?

How do you take them out? Does the shaft have to slide out the left side of the baler?

Thanks! 

-OAK

 

[1256pickett]

Sorry to make light of your situation but years ago I heard a CIH mechanic who favored New Holland say any time you go to work on IH balers you better take some bananas to feed the monkeys that tie the knots because no one knows how those knotters work, it must be monkeys tying the bales. 
On a serious note CNH does have that baler in their parts catalog not sure of the exact part. A lot of the big bone yards carry some parts for older equipment. I’ve had good luck with all states ag parts (ASAP). 

[DT361]

Don't suppose you found the piece that broke off? - so it could be brazed back on..?  By the looks of it, it should still be around the bolt.

Just the hold-down broke? - Bill hook and whatnot are OK?  Odd that it broke there - I wouldn't think it would get a whole lot of pressure, but looks like a clean fresh break.

Never worked on one, so I'm of little use.... 😐

[Absent Minded Farmer]

1 hour ago, IH OAK said:

We have a IH 47 baler and one of the knotter castings broke on me last night.

Does anyone have a used one I can get hold of?

  

What is the part number?

How do you take them out? Does the shaft have to slide out the left side of the baler?

Thanks! 

-OAK

 

The part number is 668957R11. The frame is about half the value of the baler on a good auction day. The knotter stack comes out of the trip clutch. You have to disconnect the shaft that drops down to the needle yoke, unbolt the knotter frames, unbolt the packer relief anchor support from the outer knotter shaft bearing support, then you should be able to grab it by the bearing support & pull it toward you. That should get the assembly off. As you take everything off, make sure everything stays in order. That's a lot of parts & a lot of shim washers tucked in there. When you get the offending frame off, you have to gut it. The only thing the frame comes with is a bushing. I recommend welding the piece back on. Have one welded on mine in the exact same spot yours broke. Works fine. Though I didn't weld it so that's why it holds Lol! There are four salvage machines listed on Tractorhouse. Every once & a while a used or NOS complete assembly will float across eBay. Be sure to get the knotter service manual. I know I'm forgetting a couple steps & it takes a little monkeying with the trip dog to get it to line up in the clutch upon reassembly. Been a few years since I had mine apart.... like 50 times. >:v( Should you need the manual right away, go to the CaseIH technical publications store. You can buy it & download as a .pdf it all in one fell swoop.

Mike

[mmi]

the blacksmith/torch dealer at our regional fair can torch weld that

[iowaboy1965]

My question is why did it break in the first place?

[Binderoid]

If the broken piece cannot be found,  you might consider welding a block of steel in its place and drill and tap a new hole. That frame will swing far enough around to allow a comfortable brazing position on most sides.  Just spray the chaff down with a hose so it won’t catch fire.  I would guess a competent welder can fix that in under 3 hours if it were in his shop.

[stronger800]

X2

[766 Man]

  Just in case the old one can't be fixed try Fry's Machinery near Williamsport, PA.  570-546-3968.  M-F.

[Binderoid]

On 9/4/2021 at 8:55 PM, 1256pickett said:

CIH mechanic who favored New Holland say any time you go to work on IH balers you better take some bananas to feed the monkeys that tie the knots because no one knows how those knotters work, it must be monkeys tying the bales. 

The only change I’d make is give the bananas to the C-IH mechanic and the serviceman shirts to the monkeys because they are obviously smarter. What is this universal fear of IH knotters? They work the same way as anything else except they don’t have a wiper arm and twine fingers. How can fewer parts be more complicated? They are really quite easy to understand if someone would take a few minutes and study them, instead of using the time to perpetuate senseless myths.

[lightninboy]

Yeah, if you can figure out Deering it shouldn't be much harder to figure out McCormick.

[IH OAK]

Thanks all!

I will try to get it welded if I can. If it wasn't cast I could do it but I don't trust myself on cast very much.

The broken off piece is out in the field somewhere.

[Mr. Plow]

[lightninboy]

My dad welded a cast Hustler lawn mower wheel hub with the MIG as if it was steel. It looks iffy and ugly, but we're using it.

[R190]

those frames are real common they were used on later 46 thru very early 440 balers. the trick is to find one where the hole for vthe twine disc shaft goes is not wore baldly

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:49 PM, Binderoid said:

The only change I’d make is give the bananas to the C-IH mechanic and the serviceman shirts to the monkeys because they are obviously smarter. What is this universal fear of IH knotters? They work the same way as anything else except they don’t have a wiper arm and twine fingers. How can fewer parts be more complicated? They are really quite easy to understand if someone would take a few minutes and study them, instead of using the time to perpetuate senseless myths.

It’s been my experience that every service tech knows all about square balers. That is until they’ve got one that doesn’t work. 

[Binderoid]

30 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

It’s been my experience that every service tech knows all about square balers. That is until they’ve got one that doesn’t work. 

I actually had one tech tell me that the kinky twine in the beginning of the ball was the problem. I said “what , so we have to just yank out 100 feet of twine from every ball and throw it away? He turned a few screws and the baler took a notion and started tying again, just as it had done since it was new. It wasn’t until years later I had a helper turn the flywheel and watch it tie in slow motion did I discover the problem. It had nothing to do with any of the adjustments he had made. 

[Jeff-C-IL]

Actually, yes.    Our old NH 67 baler rarely missed a bale....as long as you pulled the first 20' out of the twine bundle first.

[Jacka]

3 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

It’s been my experience that every service tech knows all about square balers. That is until they’ve got one that doesn’t work. 

That's funny, sorta like put one dairy or beef cow out there alone in a field and 4 different feed guys will tell you how to feed it,they all will be different and the other 3 will be wrong  according to each guy. 

[Moodnacreek]

If it where me I would be in the field with a coin finder and if I found the broken part it would get veed out, tacked in place and brazed heavily. On cast iron and where there is room I have had good luck doing this even when the piece was used under stress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

if

[Binderoid]

On 9/9/2021 at 4:06 PM, Jeff-C-IL said:

Actually, yes.    Our old NH 67 baler rarely missed a bale....as long as you pulled the first 20' out of the twine bundle first.

I don’t see why that would make a difference. From the tensioning device at or near the twine box, around the bale, to the point where the twine is held by the twine disc, the twine is held taut. During the tying cycle, twine tension is maintained right up to where the needle twine is laid in the twine disc. This means all those little kinks are stretched out throughout the system, and the billhook has no kinky twine to deal with.

  I suspect pulling 20ft. out of the ball and the knotter tying is just coincidence. One screw on that knotter needs a tiny adjustment. 

[766 Man]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:49 AM, Binderoid said:

The only change I’d make is give the bananas to the C-IH mechanic and the serviceman shirts to the monkeys because they are obviously smarter. What is this universal fear of IH knotters? They work the same way as anything else except they don’t have a wiper arm and twine fingers. How can fewer parts be more complicated? They are really quite easy to understand if someone would take a few minutes and study them, instead of using the time to perpetuate senseless myths.

  If like around here several IH dealers also carried NH.  The salesman at one of them told me many years ago that NH gave dealers better pricing on whole goods versus IH so more profit for the dealer.  In Western NY if you did not carry NH or were not a JD dealer you were on the outside looking in concerning making sales.  NH could offer the best price and JD had the availability of financing.  The IH dealers did make IH sales to the die hard IH farmers but if any customer was the least bit on the fence they usually wound up buying NH.  Gehl and Hesston pretty much sold in small pockets.  

[Moodnacreek]

3 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  If like around here several IH dealers also carried NH.  The salesman at one of them told me many years ago that NH gave dealers better pricing on whole goods versus IH so more profit for the dealer.  In Western NY if you did not carry NH or were not a JD dealer you were on the outside looking in concerning making sales.  NH could offer the best price and JD had the availability of financing.  The IH dealers did make IH sales to the die hard IH farmers but if any customer was the least bit on the fence they usually wound up buying NH.  Gehl and Hesston pretty much sold in small pockets.  

It was the same way down here [s.e. n.y.] when we had farms. With balers it was N.H. or J.D.