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Diesel Lubricity


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7 hours ago, Gearclash said:

2 stroke oil would be my choice for an “unofficial” diesel lubricant additive.  It is designed primarily as a lubricant, and also designed to combust cleanly, both attributes that I think ATF lacks.  I don’t use it as I usually need a winterizing additive more of the time than not.  So I usually run Power Service white bottle.

Don’t dare put it in any emission equipped vehicles, computer will shut you down almost immediately.

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16 hours ago, jass1660 said:

Don’t dare put it in any emission equipped vehicles, computer will shut you down almost immediately.

Oh really? Never heard of anyone having trouble. Can you explain what happens?

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:46 PM, MinnesotaFarmall said:

I have been told by many people not to run atf any more. Some of it actually contains a friction modifier to help with clutch engagement. 

That is also what the local Diesel shop Tech told our neighbor when he had his pump from his Cat 2408 truck engine overhauled this spring.
This Tech has 30+ years of experience on pumps and 20 years ago he recommended ATF but NOT NOW.  

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1 hour ago, MinnesotaFarmall said:

Oh really? Never heard of anyone having trouble. Can you explain what happens?

No injection pumps on most new stuff, the injectors do it all and they run up to 30,000 psi. Computer will sense it isn’t straight diesel and shut down truck. We had a guy accidentally put 15 gallons of gas in and truck didn’t make it 1000’ and shut down, had to drain and flush whole system to get it running again.

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:46 PM, MinnesotaFarmall said:

I have been told by many people not to run atf any more. Some of it actually contains a friction modifier to help with clutch engagement. 

Friction modifier is phosphoric acid. It is required to stop Ford wet brakes from chattering.

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I always laugh at these fuel additive "oil threads" and always hesitate to chime in lol! The reason ATF was popular back in the 70's is because it was a very high detergent oil, so it would clean varnish buildup. ATF is very different today also. Now there are many readily available fuel additives designed for that purpose. Believe what you want, but I've been inside of pumps that are from users of quality additives and those who do not, and there is a very noticeable difference! Stanadyne has been the go to for years, but after they sold that division off to Claircor (Baldwin's parent company) some people got let go of and Alliant Power picked them up and developed their own fuel additive, very similar to Stanadyne. To me the lack of lubricity isn't affecting the metal to metal parts as much as it dries out the seals and orings, then they begin to leak everywhere. I use oil additives in the oil, and fuel additives in my fuel. 

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4 hours ago, jass1660 said:

No injection pumps on most new stuff, the injectors do it all and they run up to 30,000 psi. Computer will sense it isn’t straight diesel and shut down truck. We had a guy accidentally put 15 gallons of gas in and truck didn’t make it 1000’ and shut down, had to drain and flush whole system to get it running again.

Huh, that's strange..... My 06 Cummins runs that on rail pressure and doesn't seem to notice..not calling you a b.s.er, but strange it can "tell". 

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1 hour ago, MinnesotaFarmall said:

Huh, that's strange..... My 06 Cummins runs that on rail pressure and doesn't seem to notice..not calling you a b.s.er, but strange it can "tell". 

These are trucks with scr and dpf’s then there is the whole def to deal with. Yours only has egr.

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Neighbor runs duramax pickups, new one, all the time it seems.  He was low on fuel and busy talking on the phone last year, said he was pretty -low- on diesel and accidentally -filled-  his new truck with gas.  Drove it 90 miles with no issue until the screen told him he was low on DEF. He thought that was odd and impossible as we all know they use very little DEF. As he was adding DEF, he realized his error.  Dealer told him over the phone to add diesel as he could, and run it. Said it happens all the time. No codes on dash, no nothing. Ran fine. He was not towing or anything though. 

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10 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

He said it burned about an entire tank of DEF in that 90 miles, and another jug full in the next few days.

I can only tell you what I witnessed with my own eyes in a 2017 Mack mp8 semi similar to the one I drive.

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51 minutes ago, stronger800 said:

Neighbor runs duramax pickups, new one, all the time it seems.  He was low on fuel and busy talking on the phone last year, said he was pretty -low- on diesel and accidentally -filled-  his new truck with gas.  Drove it 90 miles with no issue until the screen told him he was low on DEF. He thought that was odd and impossible as we all know they use very little DEF. As he was adding DEF, he realized his error.  Dealer told him over the phone to add diesel as he could, and run it. Said it happens all the time. No codes on dash, no nothing. Ran fine. He was not towing or anything though. 

A few years ago my neighbor who never had a diesel truck before decided he needed one. I lost track of how many times he filled it up with gas. He never made it far from the gas station, sometimes a mile or two. Always had to drain the tank to get it going again. He was sure a slow learner. His was a Ford. 

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It was an ‘18 or ‘19 duramax 3500 I was referencing. 

I also know a guy who dumped an entire jug of DEF right into his ‘17 or ‘18 Ford fuel tank. Then  went to work and back.  Everybody says that is a end of the word, your truck and your wallet are both $crewed type of deal. Pretty sure he said the dealer charged him $500-600 (I know it seemed minimal in comparison) to drain it and flush some components out.  You know they  didn'tdo much for 500 or 600  bucks, but that was two winters ago, and he is  still driving it. 

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13 hours ago, Injpumped said:

. To me the lack of lubricity isn't affecting the metal to metal parts as much as it dries out the seals and orings, then they begin to leak everywhere.

Injpumped is correct on the older fuel pumps like the Bosch VA without fuel additives the seals will start leaking using ULSD fuel. The newer pumps were designed for ULSD.

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50 minutes ago, jimb2 said:

 

Injpumped is correct on the older fuel pumps like the Bosch VA without fuel additives the seals will start leaking using ULSD fuel. The newer pumps were designed for ULSD.

That is another solid point. The units made today are built better to better withstand the ulsd. Read a couple articles on putting 2 stroke in your fuel, and I may stop doing it. Says that in some cases, the tests performed left zinc build up on the ends of the injectors which could break off inside of the combustion chamber on cold starts.

 

https://magazine.unsealed4x4.com.au/unsealed-4x4-issue-070/ultimate-guide-to-2-stroke-oil-in-diesel-part-2

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11 hours ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

A few years ago my neighbor who never had a diesel truck before decided he needed one. I lost track of how many times he filled it up with gas. He never made it far from the gas station, sometimes a mile or two. Always had to drain the tank to get it going again. He was sure a slow learner. His was a Ford. 

I could NEVER understand anybody mis-fueling a car, truck, tractor, combine, anything.  Since 1964 I switched from 100% gasoline to predominantly running the diesel R that spring, then a few years later fueled up the 4010 and neighbor's 4020's Alot, always got gasoline in the gas tractors/trucks, and diesel fuel in diesel trucks/tractors.  I can't imagine being so obsessed with something else you fill up with the wrong fuel.

    And I just checked on-line, what JASS1660 says about his employer holds some serious weight,  they are THE LARGEST trucking company in the USA,  just a bit over 8-1/2 TIMES the size by revenue of the #2 trucking company, which I'm really surprised is still in business, there service back in 1979,'80, and '81 was absolutely TERRIBLE.  I got a truck load of tires ordered, loaded, and hauled from Rockford, Ill to FARMALL in Rock Island about a half hour quicker than I got a loaded trailer pulled from the trucking terminal on the west side of Davenport, Iowa to FARMALL, approx. 10 miles vs 120 miles.

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On 8/30/2021 at 8:29 AM, lightninboy said:

I've never done it, but it could happen to anybody sooner or later.

You are right there, if you look up anal in the dictionary you see my picture ( anal not anus) we went for gas on a trip to BCs interior, one station had the same colored handles for hitest gas as my regular station in the state of Washington had for diesel, not really watching I start pumping and put three gallons in before my holy crap moment, finished with 30 gallons diesel and drove ear to the motor til that was gone and fresh put in, another lesson for an old guy.

 

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Stanadyne makes a “Lubricity” Fromula additive.  I’m down to the last couple of gallons of a 55 gallon drum I purchased 10 years ago🙂. You can buy it in 8oz, pint,5 Gal, or 55gal

 

image.jpg

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When they switched the fuel to low sulfur I went through 3 injection pumps in 3 months in a 2,000 5.9 with the VP44 pump. Started adding 2 cycle oil and have been on the same pump for 150,000 miles.

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33 minutes ago, Finney said:

When they switched the fuel to low sulfur I went through 3 injection pumps in 3 months in a 2,000 5.9 with the VP44 pump. Started adding 2 cycle oil and have been on the same pump for 150,000 miles.

Do you know what was failing?  Was it the pumping components or the controller?  I just did the VP44 in my pickup this year, 200K on an original, I’m pretty sure the mechanicals were fine, pump computer failed. 

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I run howes in my truck and in the tractors, dunno if it helps, but it doesn’t hurt and makes me feel like at least i am trying, with the new diesel that we brought home yesterday, maybe it needs a little more reflection. 

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