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Diesel Lubricity


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Since 2008 all diesel has only 15 ppm sulfur content, instead of the 500 ppm pre 2008.  Sulphur adds lubricity to diesel fuel needed for injection pumps of older tractors, 1066, etc. 
Does anyone add any type of additive to their fuel to enhance the lubricity needed for older tractors??

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I used to put some ATF in my fuel of my mechanically injected diesels on occasion, and when changing filters. Old timers used to say to do it. However two injection shops told me not to do that! They said especially in some of the newer equipment with mechanical pumps it can ruin it. They had other reasoning as well. They both said the Lucas fuel treatment or the Stanadyne fuel additive are recommended to add lubrication. Stanadyne (who built a lot of injection pumps) has a new version of their product the Lubricity Formula. I have been using in for the past year or so in my older stuff. There are probably others as well.

lucas.jpg.8e2f7b86c7493d602e533c50d7954f56.jpg

Stanadyne_Diesel_Fuel_Additive_Lubricity_Formula_38561_zm.thumb.webp.a69c75644efb40866287ddc5db97035a.webp

I feel like their recommendation was unbiased because neither shop sold those products.

 

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Just as the article jass1660 pointed out states, it's the process of removing the sulfur, not the sulfur itself.

My understanding is the same EPA regulation that says the sulfur has to be removed, also says that the supplier has to replace that lost lubricity.

A question I have is, if you can't trust what's in the fuel, how can you trust what's in the bottle of snake oil?

We are running on blind faith and belief in magic here no matter what route we choose, because we lack the equipment and time to scientifically test everything ourselves to see what the truth is. Howe's or Power Service or Lucas or Stanadyne... What's saying that any of them do anything? The engine didn't blow up? Millions of pickup trucks and tractors run hard every day with no additives at all and don't blow up either.

I have maintained since 2010 that if this lubricity thing were such a huge  problem as it is being made out, the sides of the highways should be littered with dead diesel trucks. There should be angry truckers marching in the streets. There should be massive class action lawsuits against the government. Where are they? Where are the statistics showing a higher rate of catastrophic engine failures due to this "lack of lubricity?"

Taryl Fixes All on youtube did a year and a half long experiment on several gasoline additives and none of them did anything. Straight gas worked just as well if not better, lasted just as long if not longer than the fuels with preservative in them. Only the "canned" gas that's $20+ a gallon worked better. After seeing what a pile of snake oil those gasoline additives are, I seriously question the diesel additives.

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Actually its the newer fuel systems that need more lubricity the injectors  tolerances are a lot closer than older engines , Our fuel vendor adds fuel conditioner every time we have fuel delivered, When we didn't have it added we had several injectors failing 

 

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2 minutes ago, ksfarmdude said:

Actually its the newer fuel systems that need more lubricity the injectors  tolerances are a lot closer than older engines , Our fuel vendor adds fuel conditioner every time we have fuel delivered, When we didn't have it added we had several injectors failing 

 

And in our fleet of 10,000 semis they add nothing, and worldwide we go thru a million gallons a day yet we have 5 year old trucks with a million miles on them as most are dual utilized everyday. 

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 Those who care enough for their "obsolete" technology to worry about lubricity, most likely also care enough to drain water from filter/ separators  and change elements at a reasonable interval.

 It's a mind-set thing.

 A bit of howes or powerservice or even 2-stroke oil is just part of the ceremony created around the ancient engine designed to promote longevity.

 It is not a bad thing.

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We use a product called complete . Does both antigell and lubrication along with boost cetane and combat moisture. We treat year round for all reasons above

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1 hour ago, jass1660 said:

And in our fleet of 10,000 semis they add nothing, and worldwide we go thru a million gallons a day yet we have 5 year old trucks with a million miles on them as most are dual utilized everyday. 

That's a pretty big boast there , I'll take that with a  grain of salt lol

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2 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

I have maintained since 2010 that if this lubricity thing were such a huge  problem as it is being made out, the sides of the highways should be littered with dead diesel trucks. There should be angry truckers marching in the streets. There should be massive class action lawsuits against the government. Where are they? Where are the statistics showing a higher rate of catastrophic engine failures due to this "lack of lubricity?"

There were all kinds of problems with injection systems when ULSD first came out.   I even had a tractor that needed a way premature pump rebuild that was blamed on ULSD.  Near as I can tell, nobody really anticipated just how much a problem that the lack of lubricity was going to be, so there was a rash of trouble early on; seems that once the problem was recognized, it was dealt with in the fuel supply chain somewhere.

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2011-2015 Chevy Duramax trucks are famous for the CP4 injection pumps exploding at 70,000 miles due to the development of them in Germany where the diesel fuel has more lubricity in it than diesel fuel in the USA.  (Clean Air Act) Thus the class action lawsuit against Chevy 

I do know ExxonMobil adds lubricity in their diesel fuel, just installed a lubricity injection system at a truck fuel terminal in Montana last year. Never could get their lubricity specs though. 

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1 hour ago, ksfarmdude said:

That's a pretty big boast there , I'll take that with a  grain of salt lol

Well it’s UPS and the trucks don’t get treated well. No idling no cool down once you hit property shut it off. 60,000 mile oil changes idiots thinking soon as it fires has to be full throttle to build air. Really surprised they last as long as they do. Waterloo Iowa driver runs an 06 isx with 2.4 million original on it. 

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We have a lot of old(er) stuff around here, but we definitely have more injector problems with the newer stuff. I never put anything in the fuel except in winter to try and minimize gelling problems, usually with limited success if it’s very cold. I have some old gas tractors that haven’t been started in over a year with ethanol in the tank and I guarantee they would start and run fine. I have never used a stabilizer in them. They have went a year at a time between starting them and using them lots of times. 

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I only use straight gasoline in my older farm tractors and small engines mowers and such My fuel vender has plain gas , It keeps the rubber parts from dissolving and doesn't get stale as fast

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2 hours ago, Gearclash said:

There were all kinds of problems with injection systems when ULSD first came out.   I even had a tractor that needed a way premature pump rebuild that was blamed on ULSD.  Near as I can tell, nobody really anticipated just how much a problem that the lack of lubricity was going to be, so there was a rash of trouble early on; seems that once the problem was recognized, it was dealt with in the fuel supply chain somewhere.

So .... when a pump is rebuilt due to damage from lack of lubrication, what parts are different that make it compatible with low sulfur fuel? Everything is already hardened and ground to 1 ten -thousandth. How are these parts made score-proof?

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I look at all the "oil" and "fuel" questions like this. Peace of mind. I try to run what I consider "good" oil. Hytran or mobil 424. I add fuel conditioner to my fuel. It costs me a little bit but, if I have an injector pump fail its gonna be $1500 +/-    I can say at that point i did what I could. I double filter all my fuel, through a water separator, and drain my tanks on all my tractors. Very seldom see any water come out. My 766 injection pump head eroded like that all do, and at that time my pump guy said whatever your doing keep doing it. The inside of that pump looked brand new he said. So I do what he recommended. 

Point is if your willing to spend the extra dollars for conditioner or hytran. Do it. Theres no black and white answer that wont be argued. 

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we try to buy good quality fuel (currently Cenex Fieldmaster, in the past Amoco Premier which no longer exists and Farm Service Dieselex).  I keep the filters on the equipment and the barrels changed.    I used to quiz the suppliers about the sulfur and the answer was "we put in additives to make up for the sulfur" and they must be telling the truth as I have only ever had one injector pump fail, on an 826 where the head seized.  Ran a 986 over 10K hours and never even cracked open a fuel line til the sleeve o rings failed and the whole thing was due for a major at that point.  But as others have said, it really comes down to what you think best

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21 hours ago, Matt Kirsch said:

Just as the article jass1660 pointed out states, it's the process of removing the sulfur, not the sulfur itself.

My understanding is the same EPA regulation that says the sulfur has to be removed, also says that the supplier has to replace that lost lubricity.

A question I have is, if you can't trust what's in the fuel, how can you trust what's in the bottle of snake oil?

We are running on blind faith and belief in magic here no matter what route we choose, because we lack the equipment and time to scientifically test everything ourselves to see what the truth is. Howe's or Power Service or Lucas or Stanadyne... What's saying that any of them do anything? The engine didn't blow up? Millions of pickup trucks and tractors run hard every day with no additives at all and don't blow up either.

I have maintained since 2010 that if this lubricity thing were such a huge  problem as it is being made out, the sides of the highways should be littered with dead diesel trucks. There should be angry truckers marching in the streets. There should be massive class action lawsuits against the government. Where are they? Where are the statistics showing a higher rate of catastrophic engine failures due to this "lack of lubricity?"

Taryl Fixes All on youtube did a year and a half long experiment on several gasoline additives and none of them did anything. Straight gas worked just as well if not better, lasted just as long if not longer than the fuels with preservative in them. Only the "canned" gas that's $20+ a gallon worked better. After seeing what a pile of snake oil those gasoline additives are, I seriously question the diesel additives.

I was a skeptic too untill I had problems with pump on a skidloader. Did everything possible to get it started,consulted with my injection pump guy whom I used for years.He asked me if I used lubricant,I said no,why diesel fuel has enough lubricant.His reply was why is it used to clean parts in a pinch then,you don't wash parts in oil to clean them. He said metering valve was hung up he bet. Well I tapped on side of pump to no avail.After another call he told me to pop cap off and see if valve,chain was moving.I looked and no it wasn't. He said get some lubricant and just dump it down over top of chain and see what happens. Well did all that and it immediately it fired up.That itself made me a believer in fuel system lubricant and anti gel. If it is snake oil to you fine,to me it's a essential lubricant just like motor oil.If I save a injection pump for a few dollars it's well worth it too me.Also in my climate when zero t emps are real,I have absolutely no problems with fuel gelling. 

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21 hours ago, Binderoid said:

So .... when a pump is rebuilt due to damage from lack of lubrication, what parts are different that make it compatible with low sulfur fuel? Everything is already hardened and ground to 1 ten -thousandth. How are these parts made score-proof?

I know of no pump parts that are made better to tolerate the new fuel.

You can only treat the fuel to overcome the sulfur, etc removed.

I have not used Lucas but I have used Stanadyne.

Stanadyne is highly recommended by pump shops.

They are the experts and know what to use.

And you can buy it by the gallon if you want.

Those who don't use it will wish they had.

There may be as good, or better than Stanadyne, but I have not found it.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, MinnesotaFarmall said:

2 stroke oil. About an three ounces per 20 gallons in my truck. 

2 stroke oil would be my choice for an “unofficial” diesel lubricant additive.  It is designed primarily as a lubricant, and also designed to combust cleanly, both attributes that I think ATF lacks.  I don’t use it as I usually need a winterizing additive more of the time than not.  So I usually run Power Service white bottle.

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