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TD9 Bosch pump to IH "A" pump


WaldoTD9
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Hello everyone.  I've started to do some more work on my 1945 TD9 with a Bosch injection pump.  Last year I did all the clutches, worked on the engine and got all the hydraulics going.  I finally got it out to my farm to do a little work and it just didn't have any power.  It idled and ran in gears 1-3 fine, but just wouldn't push an dirt to speak of.  Didn't smoke at all and I checked the pump timing.   Anyway, I knew I needed to have the pump rebuilt anyway since there was diesel in the pump oil sump.  I know the Bosch pumps are hard to find someone to work on, and when you do, they are way more expensive that the IH "A" pumps.  So my question is, what does it take to swap over from the Bosch pump to the IH pump?  I don't know if my pump is worn beyond repair yet.  I'm just trying to gather all the info so I can make an informed decision if it comes to that.  I think I've seen that information on the board before but for the life of me I can't find it.

 

Thanks,

Matt

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"A" pumps are expensive too. Finding a decent one is hard and having to rebuilt one costs 2k.. (at Central Fuel Injection)

I dont know about changing them over. Depends on if you need different timing gears and covers etc. It for sure isn't a direct bolt on.

Didn't the Bosch pumps make use of different injectors? 

Someone more knowledgable will jump in for sure

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Yeah, that is my question.  I thought I read you could use the same injectors but that the line fittings were different so I would have to have new lines made as well.  Not an insurmountable hurdle. 

I guess "expensive" is relative on getting one rebuilt.  I do see a lot more "A" pumps for sale (I don't see any Bosch,, really) which means I may actually be able to find one that work if mine is shot.  All speculation though.

 

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The injectors should be the same but the lines are different, look for a good IH B pump and get the lines with it, can’t recall if the threaded adapter fittings at the injector need to be swapped

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Thanks.

I did have a "crazy" idea this morning.  If the pump internals are worn out, namely the cam from running with little oil, how difficult would it be to machine a new one?  I already have a small machine shop (lathe, mill, etc.).  So the extra tooling I need to grind the cams might be the cost of a "new" pump, and then I'd have some new tools 😁.  I think the hardest thing would be finding out what the original cam profile was.  Alternatively, there are plenty of hot rod shops out there that grind custom cams for cars.  Any reason they couldn't grind one for an injection pump except for the previously mentioned cam profile?

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If you have your own machining shop and you can machine the parts for a fair price, can that open up a market for these old pump parts as they are NLA now? 

I'm sure there would be demand if the price is reasonable, not like the money you have to pay now. Maybe more people will get interested in these old tractors too.

It will be difficult to get the specs from these parts

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I had thought of that.  If I have the capability I would certainly offer my services to help out the group.  But as you said, getting the specs on the parts would be the hardest part.  I'd either need one in good shape to copy or just figure out what a good profile would be.  It isn't rocket science.  We did that in school actually.  

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I might have the same issue as you do, Matt.  I opened the oil level tap on my American Bosch APE fuel pump today and it looked like diesel fuel coming out of it instead of motor oil.  The IH pump I have from another TD9 (91 series with B model pump I think) has different fuel lines and what appear to be different injectors. But the timing gear on the Bosch machine looks like part # 8146DA in my book and the IH TD9-91 shows same gear as 8146 DB. So I am guessing that they are the same timing gear and my theory is to upgrade/swap the Bosch pump for the IH pump since I'm lucky enough to have this second TD9 for parts. I hope it's as simple as this but ???

 

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What's the worst that could happen? 🤪

I don't know a ton about these specific pumps.  I have a lot to learn.  I did buy the Injection pump manual from Jensales and it has all these pumps in it.  I also have the service manual that covers the injectors.  I don't know how much help they will be.  I think they at least give fuel delivery parameters if you run the pump and injectors on a stand.

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7 hours ago, WaldoTD9 said:

I had thought of that.  If I have the capability I would certainly offer my services to help out the group.  But as you said, getting the specs on the parts would be the hardest part.  I'd either need one in good shape to copy or just figure out what a good profile would be.  It isn't rocket science.  We did that in school actually.  

There are specs to how much a cam may be worn down, maybe you can work your way back from that point?

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Well, I got my pump and injectors off.  The injectors have certainly been messed with before.  I use the word "messed" for a reason.  I found a place that said they could do work on the pump, but didn't fill me with a lot of confidence they would actually fix it after taking a boatload of my money.  So I started pulling it apart myself.  I have a pop tester on order to set the injectors up correctly and it looks like I will be fabricating a test stand for my pump so I can calibrate it.  I'll start a separate thread on that later.  All in all the cam doesn't look that worn.

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its ALL covered and on here, very hard to find

with some made tools yOu can do ALL the work, it is the making of parts

hand full of stealers remain rest learn on your $$       $1200 for a clean seal $2500 if parts

most you can do is break something and need another pump for the part $< 600

details photos

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Farmall 1466,

     I have not been able to find cam wear or lift specs for these pumps.  Do you have them?  I have the service manual but all it says is to check the cam lobes for wear or pitting.

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