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Viscosity oil


redpower123
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As far as the smell of new Hy-Tran....yes that stuff stinks. Smells like burnt gear lube when you first are around it. When we had our bulk Hy-Tran tank filled a couple months back with the new stuff, we had a secretary just about leave work for the day because the stench was pretty strong in the whole store.

As far as Hy-Tran having some compatibility issues with some CNH applications...sometimes that's what happens when you try to make a "one size fits all" oil fit in so many different applications, and having several different companies involved. When IH was IH, I'm sure every engineer for IH realized that when they designed something new that needed hydraulic oil...it had to work with Hy-Tran...nothing else. If you were an engineer that designed the world's greatest transmission/hydraulic system in the world, but couldn't make it work with Hy-Tran, IH probably was not going to help you much in developing that component. Once IH ag was sold to Case, that didn't apply anymore. Case found that out soon after they started putting IH's Hy-Tran into 94 series Case tractors...and ran into brake chatter issues right away. The old oil was reformulated into Hy-Tran Plus...and all was good again for the most part. That all changed again when Case and New Holland merged under the Fiat umbrella. For 10+ years after the merger, the 2 companies never could really agree on what was best for hydraulic oil.....New Holland felt their 134 oil(Nexplore in Case) was superior, CaseIH felt that Hy-Tran Ultra was superior...and neither side would give. This reached a head 10 years ago when we came out with the Tier IVa Steigers.....we told you that you needed 2 hydraulic oils...one for the transmission, a different one for the hydraulics/axles. What a mess. This was in addition to the English-built tractors(Pumas and Maxxums) requiring Nexplore oil as well. It took CNH long enough to blend the best parts of both oils to create one oil...but at least it was "mission accomplished". When it comes to Hy-Tran, there are a lot of moving parts involved....and not all of them are lubed by Hy-Tran...or any oil in general.

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So now we need a new oil thread to argue about which version of Hy Tran is/was the best!? 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤣

Just kidding I use yeller bucket wonder fluid. 😁 ok maybe not.

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On 8/12/2021 at 8:33 PM, 560DT said:

what do ya all think about the smell of the shell hy tran         i sure dont like it

Smells different. Not bad, but different. 

I put a couple of gallons of it in the 656 and the hydraulics immediately quieted down. It was only down a gallon according to the stick but I had to put in two to get it back up to full. Dad put Viscosity Hytran in it when he did a bunch of work on it after he bought it.

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On 8/12/2021 at 7:00 AM, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

There is a small farm store near me that sells Champion brand lubricants. I was in there the other day and the champion hydraulic oil said “Hy Tran” on it. Not meets Hy Tran spec. It just said Hy Tran on the jugs. Can anyone comment on that? I didn’t even look at the price, I just thought it was strange that it said Hy Tran right on the front of it. Isn’t the name Hy Tran trademarked or something?
image.jpeg.8522f87df215e66457fd77505be5f7be.jpeg

I would guess that the name "HY Tran" is controlled by CaseIH (CNH) or the company that makes the oil for them. But as the orange jug states, it's "HYTRAN" could very well be legit, whether or not its the same oil,  as its spelled without the space between Hy and Tran. Unless specifically stated in a trademark or patent filing, spelling is sometimes all thats needed to get around a trademark or patent. Patents and trademarks are real finicky and convoluted in their makeup as there are so many ways to encroach on them or get around them.

There are many many brands of oil out there by all the major brands of equip mfgs. that state their oil is "Compatible" with Hy Tran. But according to any of the major Mfgs. the oil they recommend is the only one to use cause the others don't meet "their" formulation requirements. It's to keep you reliant on the recommended oil and keep you buying it from the dealer. Once again for the correct answer in all things. Follow the money!

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It is interesting that now the shell Hy-Tran is being recommended for use in patriot sprayers instead of the hydraulic excavator oil that we switched to a few years ago. The reason behind the excavator oil was for the life of the hydro’s. The message we received was that you can add it in right on top of the blue colored excavator oil to help aid in the cost of converting back to Hy-Tran. So either they changed up the formulation or they are second guessing their excuse for early hydro failure in sprayers. 

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Or the people making the orange jugs of "HYTRAN" just don't know or care about trademarks. If it's some local regional brand, it's likely to fly under CNH's radar for a while. Eventually they may discover it and send a Cease & Desist. The bottler of "Champion" brand can either comply or face a lawsuit.

CNH's trademark is likely on the hyphenated spelling.

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2 hours ago, IHEnnis said:

It is interesting that now the shell Hy-Tran is being recommended for use in patriot sprayers instead of the hydraulic excavator oil that we switched to a few years ago. The reason behind the excavator oil was for the life of the hydro’s. The message we received was that you can add it in right on top of the blue colored excavator oil to help aid in the cost of converting back to Hy-Tran. So either they changed up the formulation or they are second guessing their excuse for early hydro failure in sprayers. 

It wouldn't be the first time they changed formulations. Someone did a write up of the history of Hy-Tran over the years. Every new version of Hy-Tran was in response to some new technology that the existing lube did not agree with. 

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3 hours ago, IHEnnis said:

It is interesting that now the shell Hy-Tran is being recommended for use in patriot sprayers instead of the hydraulic excavator oil that we switched to a few years ago. The reason behind the excavator oil was for the life of the hydro’s. The message we received was that you can add it in right on top of the blue colored excavator oil to help aid in the cost of converting back to Hy-Tran. So either they changed up the formulation or they are second guessing their excuse for early hydro failure in sprayers. 

NO!!!!....................Hy-Tran(new or old) is NOT recommended for the CaseIH SP sprayers!!!! You are supposed to use what CaseIH calls HV 46 Multi Grade AW oil to take the place of the excavator oil we used previously in the sprayers. Hy-Tran and the SP sprayers did not play well with each other starting about 5-6 years ago; that's why they went to the excavator fluid. Hy-Tran cost CaseIH a lot of $$$ in warranty costs back then....although I'm not 100% convinced that Hy-Tran was the root of the whole problem.

Here's a picture from the latest 4440 sprayer ops manual telling you which hydraulic oil to use, as well as a bulletin suggesting what to use to replace the previously offered excavator oil.

4440 sprayer fluids.PNG

4440 oil replacement.PNG

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@SDman What was the deal with Hytran not working in the sprayers?  Piques my interest a little from a technical stand point as both sprayers and the CVT tractors lean hard on the hydraulic oil for propulsion.  Are the sprayers that much harder on hydro pumps and motors than the CVT tractors?

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1 hour ago, Gearclash said:

@SDman What was the deal with Hytran not working in the sprayers?  

One word.......CHLORINE!!!!!

First off, CaseIH specified Hy-Tran for sprayers from day 1 since they bought Tyler sprayers. It worked perfectly fine in the sprayers until 2014-15....about the time that they went to Hy-Tran Ultraction. Then all h#ll broke loose. Sprayers had driveability issues, boom circuits wouldn't work, anything hydraulic could give problems. It took them awhile, but they settled in on the fact that the hoses for the hydrostatic drive were being flushed by a chlorine solution. I don't remember if it was a vendor change or if the same vendor just went to a different process....but the chlorine would embed itself into the pores of the hose material. During normal operation, the chlorine would react terribly with the Hy-Tran, causing all the problems listed above. At first, they wanted us to use engine oil in place of the Hy-Tran, and then you had a bottle of additive you put in the oil to make it work in place of the Hy-Tran. Biggest problem there was plugged hydraulic filters. My understanding behind going with excavator oil from the CE side was that it didn't react to the chlorine like Hy-Tran did....I believe some of the hydraulic components on the excavators went through a similar chlorine flushing process...so it was an oil that had a proven track record. Since we went with excavator oil, the problem has mostly went away. This was a bigger problem down in the Southern states as humidity played a part in this as well. It also seemed to affect the smaller 32/3340s more than the 4440s as they use a different hydro system.

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On 8/14/2021 at 6:10 PM, TP from Central PA said:

One thing I find interesting in this is the fact the factory "Juice" is no longer the factory juice.............AKA brand X.................So now brand x appears to be ok................So I guess I am safe after all:lol:

The new Magnums are still being filled with viscosity hytran at the factory.

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1 hour ago, Eason said:

The new Magnums are still being filled with viscosity hytran at the factory.

Correct, Magnum engineer told me the same in person when he stopped by for visit. 

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I went to service the axle on the 185 yesterday.  1st time i have since we got.  Was ready for the glug glug of 90wt.  SHOWER!  Its hytran too!  So are the hubs.  Should of read manual 1st i guess.  Hubs sure didnt look red.  But P.O. had never changed it...2300hr, so should of been done when we got her.  Kinda nice 1 for everything but the engine.  So far.

Several heavy manufacturers used 10-30 for hydro and engines.  Even my Agco/MF 9770wr mower uses 10/30 for hydraulic system and its a 2013.

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@SDman Ah yes. Nasty ole chlorine.  That crap is miserably persistent once introduced to a system.  Don’t ever make the mistake of using hydrochloric acid to clean metal--can’t ever get all the chlorine washed away so corrosion continues long after the event.  I wonder if something in the Hytran was reacting with residual Cl to make hydrochloric acid?

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We have used Archer Uni Fluid for years in our tractors and combine.  The hydro in the 1460 seemed weaker and noisier. Went back to hy tran and noise/ issues went away.  Leaked less at the valve stack too.  Hope the new formulation is as good!

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4 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

I went to service the axle on the 185 yesterday.  1st time i have since we got.  Was ready for the glug glug of 90wt.  SHOWER!  Its hytran too!  So are the hubs.  Should of read manual 1st i guess.  Hubs sure didnt look red.  But P.O. had never changed it...2300hr, so should of been done when we got her.  Kinda nice 1 for everything but the engine.  So far.

TD, that's pretty much been the way all of the English-built, NH-based tractors are....hydraulic oil for the front axle and hubs. Been that way since the MXMs and MXUs back in the mid 2000s. Then there's the newer Mini-Magnums....on those front axles the hubs are supposed to have gear oil, but the center section runs in Hy-Tran. SMH...

 

4 hours ago, Gearclash said:

@SDman Ah yes. Nasty ole chlorine.  That crap is miserably persistent once introduced to a system.  Don’t ever make the mistake of using hydrochloric acid to clean metal--can’t ever get all the chlorine washed away so corrosion continues long after the event.  I wonder if something in the Hytran was reacting with residual Cl to make hydrochloric acid?

What I thought was ironic about the whole Hy-Tran/SP sprayer issue was that our green and yellow friends went through the same exact headaches with their sprayers a few years before this. We had a Deere sprayer get traded into us about 10 years ago that had fewer than a couple hundred hours on it....the previous owner had numerous problems with it(all hydraulic related), and the Deere dealer was constantly working on it since he bought it. According to the owner, every time the Deere dealer worked on it, they kept finding rust/debris in just about every hydraulic component on the machine....and they had flushed the hydraulic system repeatedly...only to have the rust return a few short hours later. In the end, Deere recommended replacing the Hy-Gard hydraulic oil in those machines with Turf-Gard, IIRC, which is supposed to be an oil for Deere's lawn and garden products. After they did that, the hydraulic systems on their sprayers worked much better overall. I don't know if the newer "R" series sprayers still use Turf-Gard, but to my knowledge, everything before them is supposed to run Turf-Gard.

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20 hours ago, SDman said:

TD, that's pretty much been the way all of the English-built, NH-based tractors are....hydraulic oil for the front axle and hubs. Been that way since the MXMs and MXUs back in the mid 2000s. Then there's the newer Mini-Magnums....on those front axles the hubs are supposed to have gear oil, but the center section runs in Hy-Tran. SMH...

Now for something more BS.

Figured... what the heck.  May as well donthe 210 Mag too.  Its all 90wt!  12bolt axle but even the 10bolt axle which is same (looks identical) to the 185's axle required 90wt.  How can that make sense?

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2 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

Now for something more BS.

Figured... what the heck.  May as well donthe 210 Mag too.  Its all 90wt!  12bolt axle but even the 10bolt axle which is same (looks identical) to the 185's axle required 90wt.  How can that make sense?

Just about all of the Racine-built tractors have used gear lube in the MFD axles, with the exception of the newer Mini-Mags like I mentioned that have different oils between the hubs and center section. 

I'm trying to remember all of this, but if IIRC, the first Tier4A Mini-Mags used Dana-Spicer axles that trace their lineage back the older Magnums. IIRC, all they offered with those axles were the 10-bolt axles, because you couldn't get factory front duals on the first Mini-Magnums. Later on, they went to a CNH-sourced axle that offered 12-bolt hubs so you could get factory duals.

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6 hours ago, SDman said:

Just about all of the Racine-built tractors have used gear lube in the MFD axles, with the exception of the newer Mini-Mags like I mentioned that have different oils between the hubs and center section. 

I'm trying to remember all of this, but if IIRC, the first Tier4A Mini-Mags used Dana-Spicer axles that trace their lineage back the older Magnums. IIRC, all they offered with those axles were the 10-bolt axles, because you couldn't get factory front duals on the first Mini-Magnums. Later on, they went to a CNH-sourced axle that offered 12-bolt hubs so you could get factory duals.

This is a 2010 210 with a Fiat/cnh style axle.  Book specs 80-90w for all 3 areas on it.  I guess the housing looks same but hubs are different.  The 185 hub oil was so icky I'll re-change it in next few weeks. 

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On 8/19/2021 at 3:25 PM, TP from Central PA said:

Reason is? Doesn't make alot of sense to me????  Other than the Shell isn't good enough????

TP I don't know why. Viscosity is still sold by CaseIH everywhere else but North America. We get the Shell products.

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I would imagine there are some contract obligations between CNH and Viscosity that need to be honored, among other reasons. Looks like the new Shell-produced Hy-Tran Premium won't be used in CNH factories until 2022 production begins in October/November; although the new engine oil & antifreeze was used starting January 1st of this year.

 

Has anybody used the new 251 HEP grease from Shell? That stuff sure looks much lighter than the old stuff....looks like caramel. Also, seems to be much harder to get a grease gun primed with the new grease than the old stuff.

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