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Charging Systems on new vehicles


jeeper61
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In the quest for less fuel consumption most new vehicles have  a variable voltage (smart) alternator now.

I noticed this on my new truck the voltage varied more than I was used to.

So if you want to run a non OEM dual battery with an isolator it may require a different set up than used in the past to keep the auxiliary battery charged properly 

Also the new vehicles with the stop start system have two batteries one is the starting battery and the other keeps all the electrical stuff running when the engine stops at a  traffic light .

 image.thumb.png.362975a67a0e03588b557fff7bf8588a.png

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Why would they vary the voltage as computers and motors want clean and steady voltage?

When your engine stops at a red light, don't the heat and AC quit?

I'll pass on both options.

Damn government!

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Diesel Doctor said:

Why would they vary the voltage as computers and motors want clean and steady voltage?

When your engine stops at a red light, don't the heat and AC quit?

I'll pass on both options.

Damn government!

 

 

just wait for the new systems to power in  '23>  24/7 365 reporting, direct  to govt so they can collect your appropriate road and climate tax ,and send your fines ( no cops) along with tracking you 3x

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I wonder how long before they ban vehicles built before the date the government decides as to dirty not trackable etc.

Any vehicles equipped with On-star can be tracked and shut off remotely they can track your easy pass and they can track your cell phone 

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I don't know about other cars but my daughter's BMW has the stop/start feature. It can be deactivated and she doesn't use it. The car has a single battery. I just changed the starter, which is real fun. The stop/start features a slightly larger starter, about an inch longer than a regular BMW starter, and it barely clears part of the engine out/in. At least only the throttle body has to come off of the turbo 4 cylinder. The 6 cylinder normally aspirated requires the intake manifold be removed before you can even see the starter. I enjoyed that one too.

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1 hour ago, Diesel Doctor said:

Why would they vary the voltage as computers and motors want clean and steady voltage?

When your engine stops at a red light, don't the heat and AC quit?

I'll pass on both options.

Damn government!

 

 

Depending upon the heating/cooling demand the engine often won't stay off too long but they usually will stay off for a normal light cycle. First car I drove with it, a rental, I thought stalled but as soon as I took my foot off the brake it started. It's been the case for years in Europe, just hitting the US recently. Blower keeps going until the required heat or cold isn't being met and then the engine starts. If no real demand they'll stay off but won't stay off too long as the battery is closely monitored. The stop/start cars have, at least all I've driven, a single AGM battery.

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35 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

I wonder how long before they ban vehicles built before the date the government decides as to dirty not trackable etc.

Any vehicles equipped with On-star can be tracked and shut off remotely they can track your easy pass and they can track your cell phone 

I thought California had already done this with banning heavy trucks that did not meet emission standards?

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23 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I thought California had already done this with banning heavy trucks that did not meet emission standards?

Yes they did sooner or later the Feds will mandate it

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44 minutes ago, New Englander said:

I don't know about other cars but my daughter's BMW has the stop/start feature. It can be deactivated and she doesn't use it. The car has a single battery. I just changed the starter, which is real fun. The stop/start features a slightly larger starter, about an inch longer than a regular BMW starter, and it barely clears part of the engine out/in. At least only the throttle body has to come off of the turbo 4 cylinder. The 6 cylinder normally aspirated requires the intake manifold be removed before you can even see the starter. I enjoyed that one too.

Sounds like she needs to ditch the BMW lot o repairs going on there 

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37 minutes ago, New Englander said:

The stop/start cars have, at least all I've driven, a single AGM battery.

The one I saw was a Jeep had a second battery for the "accessories"

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I drove an F150 that had stop start.  I hated it.  It seemed like it lurched ahead when it started back up.  I don’t understand why we don’t look less at emissions and more at efficiency.  The 14 CRV with a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder got 28mpg our 19 crv with a 1.5 liter turbo ( much more complicated engine that says earth dreams on the valve cover LMAO when dealer showed me this ) still gets 28 mpg.  Doesn’t make sense to me.  As much as I like to support American made I will not buy and suv or car that isn’t a Honda.  They are a stout piece.  

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1 hour ago, Finney said:

 I like my old truck more every day

I said that too till I upgraded....

 

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1 hour ago, Finney said:

 I like my old truck more every day

I used to think that engine manufacturers would resist what is being mandated. I really thought they would fight against it. After many years of this I have come to the conclusion that they absolutely are not resisting. Most of this stuff made now is a service man’s dream. It’s extremely complicated, most people won’t even attempt a repair. Just call the dealer. While it’s at the dealer it’s extremely hard to diagnose the problem, the service department runs up the bill fumbling around with it. After many hours “diagnosing” said problem, the parts are extremely expensive. Not to worry though, they can sell them to you. What’s not to love if you’re the dealer or manufacturer? What are you going to do, buy the brand that doesn’t have unreliable electronics and emission controls? There aren’t any. 

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36 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

I used to think that engine manufacturers would resist what is being mandated. I really thought they would fight against it. After many years of this I have come to the conclusion that they absolutely are not resisting. Most of this stuff made now is a service man’s dream. It’s extremely complicated, most people won’t even attempt a repair. Just call the dealer. While it’s at the dealer it’s extremely hard to diagnose the problem, the service department runs up the bill fumbling around with it. After many hours “diagnosing” said problem, the parts are extremely expensive. Not to worry though, they can sell them to you. What’s not to love if you’re the dealer or manufacturer? What are you going to do, buy the brand that doesn’t have unreliable electronics and emission controls? There aren’t any. 

Newer engines are definitely a nightmare, but not a service man’s dream, in my way of doing things as an auto mechanic, or in the ways of some of the more “profiteer” auto mechanics I know, the fumbling about is real, there is no way to properly diagnose many current common problems, have to start with the obvious/logical and still just have to change it all in the end quite frequently, had a 17 Duramax here with DEF level sensor issues, threatening speed/power limitations, I like the guy but I turned him away because of the nightmare I told him it would be of just changing parts and possibly then needing dealer programming anyway, the dealer replaced a ton of parts to the tune of a few grand over a couple weeks, my friend at a GM dealer says they are replacing lifters in 2021 gas trucks at 5000km steady, did an oil change in a 2017 Silverado 5.3 today with 41000km, truck is babied and has been maintained, had it idling outside while I lubed the door hinges, the engine is noisy like a 2004 2.2 ecotec with 240000km and 8 oil changes in it’s life, then the serpentine belt started squeaking, I even wiped the tie rod grease fittings before greasing, one side the ball in the fitting stuck and was letting the grease out, tapped it with a hammer and punch and it still didn’t pop back, replaced it, just junk materials 

I tend to differ myself from the “profiteer” mechanics in the sense that a familiar fault with a certain model, like say head or intake gaskets on a GM 3.4, timing belts on Hondas, front end rebuilds on 3/4 ton pickups, I don’t charge the 8-12 hour book time, if it takes me 4, if I remember correctly the book time on doing both head gaskets on a GM 3.4 in a Venture van is 16.2 hours, I think warranty labour was around 12.6, back when they were newer and I was working at the GM dealership and doing a lot of them, I could do them in about 5-6, later on not much more than 8hours at most, would call guys crooks if they charged more than 10, but it’s not that simple anymore, even though it’s not how I do business I can understand someone “crook” charging 16 hours now because they have lost so much time,money and credibility working on the guy’s newer vehicles, I pay around 200 a month for my service manual and 1000 a year for my scanner, plus my internet and laptop and I can’t say that I’ll always have the information that I need, and reaching out to my GM dealer friend, he can usually only offer experience not service information that I don’t have, GM had amazing service manuals post 2008-09ish recession era, but have really cheaped it up since, even my Identifix manual that I pay for can be really good but then other times searching a few different ways you can’t even find where the dome light fuse is, or what grade of oil is supposed to be in this modern diesel engine 5w40 or 15w40? Look in the owner’s manual and it doesn’t help much either, says use spec #puretyrannosaurus or some other cryptic information, so spend a half hour more trying to make sure it’s the right stuff because apparently the oil you always used doesn’t apply any more or is unavailable due to covid and then a few months later you can’t get it because it’s been outlawed because of a “bad” additive, long story here but my point is there is seldom a service man’s dream in modern vehicles because that statement (to me) is based on the premise of making a killing and knowing you will, even the heavy charging mechanics have to charge less because it’s a longer process, unsure of success and very expensive parts 

And the heat house choke still works on my 72 Newport...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Paystar5000 said:

I drove an F150 that had stop start.  I hated it.  It seemed like it lurched ahead when it started back up.  I don’t understand why we don’t look less at emissions and more at efficiency.  The 14 CRV with a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder got 28mpg our 19 crv with a 1.5 liter turbo ( much more complicated engine that says earth dreams on the valve cover LMAO when dealer showed me this ) still gets 28 mpg.  Doesn’t make sense to me.  As much as I like to support American made I will not buy and suv or car that isn’t a Honda.  They are a stout piece.  

Just about every rental car I get on the road now is a stop/start. At first I hated the feature but after a while and with newer cars that do it better, I've found that I don't mind it and sometimes hardly notice it. Of course these are all new cars, how they work 10 years down the line waits to be seen.

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My first drive of a stop start was in Europe must of been 6-7 years ago the car was a stick it was awful to drive.

Talk about useless technology how much is it really saving the planet?

More carbon is used to make the more robust stating system and the failures of it will certainly be more.

Another unintended issue from the CAFE standards which BTW our clueless leader just upped.    

I will drive electric before I drive one of those 

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6 hours ago, IHKeith said:

GM had amazing service manuals

I've always bought the manuals for everything. The last set I bought was the 2003 SUV set - 8 volumes and detailed. Now I end up buying a subscription to All-Data for my truck, which more or less works for my wife's Yukon as they're both 2013. Without that and a Tech2 scan tool there's not too much you can do. I'll buy a one time for any of my kids cars.

An independent shop needs, as you have, an expensive subscription service for everything, an expensive scan tool, 'scope, CAN network tool, etc. before doing anything besides brakes. Even then you need a scan tool to reset the brake life or to bleed the ABS. That's a big investment before billing the first hour!

Airplanes have become the same. Our jets have a central maintenance computer which monitors just about everything on a machine way more complicated than any car. Much of the information the mechanic needs will read out directly on one of the multi-function displays. All the parameters for every flight are stored on data cards, other data card have the navigation database and charts database. Every time we have some issue away from base we'll download the FHDB or Fault History Data Base and email it to one of our mechs.

The plane will tattle on you too. We don't participate but many use the quick access recorder, which stores the same data as the Flight Data Recorder, the black box that you often hear of, they're actually orange, one in the tail and one in the nose on ours so one should survive a crash. Anyway they use the quick access for the FOQA program, Flight Operations Quality Assurance. 2 knots fast, a dot high, low, left, right on an approach at the stable approach window? Ding! Hit a gust and trip the flap overspeed? Ding! The purpose of course, is mostly to catch systemic problems like the runway over runs that seem to be too common. If your approach is unstable for instance, an over run may be the result. Since we're a small group and the department manager, the standards captain and the chief pilot (me) are all part of the active group and fly with all the line pilots we feel we'd spot any bad behavior and have/rectified.

Back to cars: The newer vehicles are really nice to drive and safer. Just watch the crazy You Tube crashes that people walk away from. No way would you walk away from some of those in your '60 Chevy. Rarely do you see a breakdown on the road anymore like years ago. However, when they do break down there's no fix by the side of the road. The new cars are for the most part a pleasure to drive. The ABS and traction controls work quite well, maybe too well as people don't have any idea where the limit is and seem to wind up in the median every snow storm. Adaptive cruise control works quite well. I was surprised when I found they'll actually brake for you. I was using it on a rental, was about to brake for traffic ahead slowing rapidly but the car was a second ahead of me and began braking aggressively, about how much I would except sooner than I.

The fun of driving will eventually go away completely; It already has for most of the younger generation. They're more concerned with their social media accounts. You can hardly find a manual transmission car and few know the pleasure of picking the right gear or making the smooth downshift. Cars will probably all drive themselves for our grand kids.

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34 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

My first drive of a stop start was in Europe must of been 6-7 years ago the car was a stick it was awful to drive.

Talk about useless technology how much is it really saving the planet?

More carbon is used to make the more robust stating system and the failures of it will certainly be more.

Another unintended issue from the CAFE standards which BTW our clueless leader just upped.    

I will drive electric before I drive one of those 

Yeah, the first stop/start didn't do it well. You'll find the newer ones do it quite well.

Actually when you drive in CA traffic as I often do and see the shear number of cars all stopped for light after light it starts to make sense that the fuel savings across millions of cars really add up. It's not so obvious driving around small towns but in LA it's for real. It really doesn't take more carbon to make the stop/start. The car's computers control it. The starter is made a little more robust, the battery is a little better, and monitored a little closer. The stuff to run it all is mostly already in today's cars anyway.

Early emission controls made driving awful and did little for fuel mileage. Those days are well behind us. Computers control everything on today's cars, right down to the lights. If you hate change you're stuck with some pretty old stuff.

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10 hours ago, Paystar5000 said:

I drove an F150 that had stop start.  I hated it.  It seemed like it lurched ahead when it started back up.  I don’t understand why we don’t look less at emissions and more at efficiency.  The 14 CRV with a 2.0 liter 4 cylinder got 28mpg our 19 crv with a 1.5 liter turbo ( much more complicated engine that says earth dreams on the valve cover LMAO when dealer showed me this ) still gets 28 mpg.  Doesn’t make sense to me.  As much as I like to support American made I will not buy and suv or car that isn’t a Honda.  They are a stout piece.  

I have driven Honda's for years. You just drive them like a rented mule.

My current one is a POS 2001 Civic.

I had to put head gaskets and a transmission in it but that was fairly reasonable.

I drove it out west and it got 38 MPG the first tank. No wind and no air.

The trip averaged 36 mpg.

I would like to upgrade to a 4 banger Accord as more roomy.

Send a girl to college in a Honda and you probably will not have to save her from a broke down car.

 

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