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It fell flat on it's face


hobbyfarm
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Well if you were close by I could have it back together in about 6-7 hours. I always thought they were a wear item, fixed many that had no weights on them.

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I'm not familiar with the material used in this tube cast iron or drawn steel. Ether way it can be welded. Spark test a couple things around your place that are known, like a bar of steel and an old cast iron engine block. Look for color and star burst at the end of sparks. Compare to a small test grind on your fractured part. Now you know what you have. near 500 degree preheat use machinable  nickel stick rod on cast ( it is brassy looking don"t use the non machinable silvery nickel) or 7018 on steel. Keep it warm for a time after. You will need some die grinder work on the hole and the reinforcement several spoke of is a good idea.

Good Luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That's a row crop and not a utility correct @hobbyfarm ? 

If it is a row crop definitely available at a few suppliers 

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7491F3E6-660E-4C12-A0D2-DC6225C1A9BB.thumb.jpeg.a2792b38b9b8eb7234e0ac335c947293.jpegDon’t feel bad.  Picture isn’t quite the same thing as yours but it happens.  We even had the rear axle break on a John Deere 6850 self propelled chopper right at the axle pivot .  We run weights on the tractors at work in different quantities all the time.  The one in the picture doesn’t have any for some reason but it has some  now.  Hope whatever repair you choose goes well.

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14 hours ago, hobbyfarm said:

You ever get in a wreck and someone tell you your an idiot and caused it?  Every broke anything yourself and had someone rub it in?  Leave it go.  Have some etiquette.  You lost your mind.

"... do they go all out once or does fatique take its toll over time?"... i was just answering the question you asked. and no  front  end loader wont  do that. its physics. your welcome.

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2 hours ago, bitty said:

That's a row crop and not a utility correct @hobbyfarm ? 

If it is a row crop definitely available at a few suppliers 

if it was a utility, it would have had the swept back front axle like my high utility.

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16 hours ago, rustred said:

i think if you had over 400 lbs hanging off your belt buckle you would fall flat on your face too.  weights go on the rear . if needed.

I’ve seen tractors, I’ve driven tractors that NEEDED 400 pounds of weight on the front. That had little to do with that breaking, I’d be more inclined to think 50 plus years did that….

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My buddy used to snap spindles on his 1085 loader regularly running over frozen patties at sub temps

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7 hours ago, rustred said:

"... do they go all out once or does fatique take its toll over time?"... i was just answering the question you asked. and no  front  end loader wont  do that. its physics. your welcome.

Sooooo, physics?  The load in the bucket of a front end loader is roughly 6-7 feet (varies by loader model, professor) in front of the front axle, and the weight bracket is probably 3 feet in front of the axle (I measured a 5488, I think on a 656 the weight bracket is closer to the axle, but that’s beside the point).  Yeah, physics is involved, alright!! Admit you were off base and stop digging, Buck!  At this point, Biden is looking more and more credible!

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12 hours ago, bitty said:

That's a row crop and not a utility correct @hobbyfarm ? 

If it is a row crop definitely available at a few suppliers 

Row crop.  

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The problem with replacing the center tube is the wishbone shaped piece with the ball on the back end.  When the old center tube broke the wishbone got bent.  I had a bent one and took it the blacksmith shop to get straightened and they did the best they could, but if was a son of a buck pulling it through the holes on the center tube.  A salvage yard I was at the other day had two wish bones for sale, I would try to find a straight one if they not too high.

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This thread went crazy.  Thank you to all the generous members our there willing to shuffle parts around.  Hopefully some day I can pay it forward.  Pretty sure it is just the center tube.  It was greased about a week ago.  Wengers has aftermarket ones for $342 I think the price  was.  If I get it through the local repair shop they will give 2% off that.  I hope to tear into this thing Friday.  I'll keep everyone updated.  

On a positive note everything is baled/wrapped and hauled in.  It took from 830a until 11pm to rake and move 178 silage bales.  I don't know how you guys that bale huge quantities at a time do it.

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On 7/19/2021 at 6:37 PM, hobbyfarm said:

This stinks.  Do they go all out once or does fatigue take it's toll over time?  Bounced a little on a rut but nothing crazy.

Guess we need to figure out how we are going to fix it.  I can't imagine what a used wide front costs.  I believe this was an IH one also not a Schwartz.

How easy will this come apart?  If I can't find a wide front what is involved in putting a narrow one under it?

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Appears to me like that way it's broke it's just the axle tube thats busted. Unless the pivot mount is also busted (can't tell from the pic). If there is a machine/fab shop near you you can probably get them to order a new tube and fab a new one, then all thats left is ordering tie rod & steering parts that got busted. Might be fairly cheap, as in it's still gonna cost plenty, but may be cheaper than a new or used one with unknown issues. 

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181A2198-0331-4BB4-8F65-A378F500DE2B.thumb.jpeg.75a007c04607a7695e664733e63aa57b.jpegmy 800 Case didn’t like a bucket of sand. I only have a 5 foot bucket and I know I have handled more weight with a bale. That day was just the day it decided to let go. 1 side haad absolutely no penetration in the weld. Lifted the off side rear wheel off the ground when it dropped. 

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You see above how the old 800 Case axle is built, the pivot cross tube is welded on top of the axle tube.  the  IH has a hole through the center of the axle tube, with the pivot tube welded  in it, I guess the IH engineers are asking themselves, I wonder why it always breakes at the pivot!   Case will break also if you run them off in a hole!

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A friend of mine is a John Deere mechanic.

On the newer FWA, he says to grease the front axle pivot with each tank of fuel.

To much grease and to little grease is both bad.

This is very costly to fix.

I would bet the Case/IH's are the same.

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Had that happen to my 656 (wood chuck hole)

Welded it back together made a new center pin tube with bronze bushings and made a truss gusset out of one inch hard ox

You can't see the gusset unless you get down low

I'm going to do the same thing to my 806 wheatland when I rebuild  the front end this winter

They do make an aftermarket tube for them

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Amateur hour on the dirt floor open shed this morning. I got it apart.  Looks like it is just the center tube right at the pin.  I am assuming the bushing was welded in the center tube at some point however it fell right out.  Fought a little to get things all apart but didn't go too bad for not knowing what I am doing.  The wishbone if that is what you call it must have been loose on the one side at some point.  Although it won't hury anything the threads are all boogered up where it had rubbed.  Got the  adjustable part of the axle out with lots of penetrating oil and some banging on the broken tube to get the rust loose.  Also 2 different size ball joint nuts on this thing.  No excessive wear on the hardened center pin.  Someone welded the one spindle a long time ago.

Snuck a picture of the DeWalt impact in there.  If you don't have a cordless impact I highly recommend.  They are incredible.

Off to get a new tube I hope.

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Here are some pictures of when I was rebuilding the front axle on my Case 930. Not trying to derail the thread, but it just shows the different way the engineers solved the same problem.   I don't have pictures of the last half of the rebuild, but I used ground rod to line up the front and rear pin holes for welding.  I then reamed them again and pressed in bronze bushings from McMaster Carr.  It turned out well and has held up for the last 15 years.

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Got everything back together with the exception of the tie rod or ball joint ends.  Somehow the castle nuts don't want to thread on them.  There was substantial rust on the thread ends and most of the bolts.  Right or wrong I replaced the bolts that hold the clamps on the end of the center tube. 

All I have left is to replace the center pin grease zero and attach the tie rod ends.  Anyone ever successfully chase threads on a ball joint?  That is my plan once I find a die to fit.  It shouldn't take much, just enough to clean them up?  There won't be any ramming them on with a socket or impact.  The ball joint just wants to spin around.

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1 minute ago, hobbyfarm said:

Got everything back together with the exception of the tie rod or ball joint ends.  Somehow the castle nuts don't want to thread on them.  There was substantial rust on the thread ends and most of the bolts.  Right or wrong I replaced the bolts that hold the clamps on the end of the center tube. 

All I have left is to replace the center pin grease zero and attach the tie rod ends.  Anyone ever successfully chase threads on a ball joint?  That is my plan once I find a die to fit.  It shouldn't take much, just enough to clean them up?  There won't be any ramming them on with a socket or impact.  The ball joint just wants to spin around.

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I have run a die over a tierod joint. Try to hold the tapered part with a good pair of vise grips

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On 7/20/2021 at 11:57 PM, 801486 said:

The problem with replacing the center tube is the wishbone shaped piece with the ball on the back end.  When the old center tube broke the wishbone got bent.  I had a bent one and took it the blacksmith shop to get straightened and they did the best they could, but if was a son of a buck pulling it through the holes on the center tube.  A salvage yard I was at the other day had two wish bones for sale, I would try to find a straight one if they not too high.

Wishbone was just ever so slightly bowed out.  I used a 2" tie down strap to pull it together so I could slide the axle onto it.  Got lucky I guess.

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1 minute ago, bitty said:

I have run a die over a tierod joint. Try to hold the tapered part with a good pair of vise grips

Thanks.  That is my plan.  Going to see if I can pick one up in the am.  

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