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Tractor of the week # 17 560


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To be honest, I have never wanted a 560 because of all the negative things that I have heard about them. That changed when I first saw pictures of Lorenzo’s 560 several years ago when he posted several!!! Now like his, I see the one for sale, with duals, and I want it. Just can’t justify it though, and it’s not as beautiful as his.

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20 hours ago, INTERNATIONAL 1466 said:

Wonder which IH tractor I should pick next for "Tractor of the week". :wacko:

Maybe save the M for mid winter, it will help warm us up ?

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14 hours ago, TP from Central PA said:

I don't know about that..............The only people around me that I knew switched colors did so because of a issue and the dealer failing to correct it............Not exactly a fit here, but I do know someone who ran Massey's that had an issue and bought a used 2 cylinder because the Massey dealer would not work with them and were green after that.  I am sure it did happen.  I actually know of a handful that had trouble with red paint and the dealer would not work with them and they went green and stayed that way.  But know others too that were 2 cylinders for years, went red and didn't go back, although there was no issues there, just liked the red tractor better.  I think the only poor b*stards who really suffered from this was the JI Case dealer here.  They would go in with a smoking price on tractor, sell it, and it turned out to be a complete POS and they were not willing to get the issues solved in any reasonable time, they sold enough green paint the Deere dealer should have gave them a commission.  

 

Lots of guys around here ran mixture.  We went from IH to JD to Massey to Versatile and back to JD.  Before that we also had Oliver, Cat and MM.  Neighbor of mine, farmed with Versatile, Case, Massey, Steiger all 4 wheel drive tractors.  We are one of the few that went from an IH to a 2 cylinder.  Great grandpa traded in his 600 for a JD 830.  

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14 hours ago, hardtail said:

Maybe save the M for mid winter, it will help warm us up ?

Only one that will show up and throw a monkey wrench in that one would be Mr. Tanker.................There are things I don't care for, but for a tractor to be built in the 40's, its amazing how useable it is yet..............When you look at say a JD A or G from the same period that are almost all garage queens, or Tankers Fords which are mowing the yard because those two arms with balls in them, that is quite a feat.  

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1 hour ago, TP from Central PA said:

Only one that will show up and throw a monkey wrench in that one would be Mr. Tanker.................There are things I don't care for, but for a tractor to be built in the 40's, its amazing how useable it is yet..............When you look at say a JD A or G from the same period that are almost all garage queens, or Tankers Fords which are mowing the yard because those two arms with balls in them, that is quite a feat.  

  Now you are changing the argument in terms of what Tanker was saying.  HIs contention was no equipment was being made in 2021 that would work with a stock M which is not true.  I could just as easily put a 1949 JD A, 1949 Oliver 88, 1949 MH 44, etc. on the same job as I would put a Farmall M.  I would probably put an 88 ahead of the others for its live PTO and hydraulics.  Also, the 6 cylinder engine is SMOOTH and responsive.  

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3 hours ago, 766 Man said:

  Now you are changing the argument in terms of what Tanker was saying.  HIs contention was no equipment was being made in 2021 that would work with a stock M which is not true.  I could just as easily put a 1949 JD A, 1949 Oliver 88, 1949 MH 44, etc. on the same job as I would put a Farmall M.  I would probably put an 88 ahead of the others for its live PTO and hydraulics.  Also, the 6 cylinder engine is SMOOTH and responsive.  

He was saying it was useless in todays world as it is too small...................and to back that up all the implements sized with it are scrapped.  In todays world there is normal equipment yet it(M) will run, and some of it is not really even small or specialized. And unless you got a power block in the A, it won't make the power most M's being punched out with firecraters are doing limiting it, along with the hand clutch, gear contraption(Although a 49 twin stick IMO is better than the late single stick as far as ease of use)...............I don't really include the others, none of those left around here.  Lot of A's, G's and M's, but only the M's are used.........I can think of a few yet who might put a 2 cylinder on a rake, but that is about it..........Know a bunch of M's still hauling manure daily with fairly good size tandem axle spreaders, along with running augers all winter, raking, and moving equipment in the yard.  

 

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I know where there is an M sitting by a river hooked to a pump that’s irrigating a field of corn right at this very moment. Great on fuel ,  Has been for  years and will be in  the future. 
 

Still plenty of uses for an M and always will be.  Also know of one that’s used to pull a hay rack . 

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49 minutes ago, lorenzo said:

I know where there is an M sitting by a river hooked to a pump that’s irrigating a field of corn right at this very moment. Great on fuel ,  Has been for  years and will be in  the future. 

Flood irrigating?  Can't see an M being good on fuel on anything needing high pressure...........

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Maybe a 560 fan would be interested in this on Big Iron June 21 sale, listed under collectibles.

farmall560toytractorw2-mhcornpicker_b858433b06e14b1f898fb7da8a79fac0.thumb.jpg.fb606fa688d4dfc5ca19f6dcae3ad39f.jpg

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5 minutes ago, lorenzo said:

Yes sir.

Figured............Still using a front pump with a flat belt?   Seen lots of pictures of them setup that way.  Here we need alot of pressure to push uphill for either linears, pivots, or travelers, so something like a M pumping is unheard of.  

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On 7/14/2021 at 7:36 PM, Big Bud guy said:

 

I’ve been told by a few IH experts the 660 actually had more recalls, service notices, and problems then the 560.  You don’t hear about them because 660 was a low production tractor comparatively speaking.    

My old IH dealer would sure agree with that. When we were putting tractors/equipment into the big barn for RPRU 2014 in Huron, a beautifully restored 660 drove by. He looked at that and said something to the effect that the 660 was the biggest piece of junk IH ever made...IH's failed attempt to build something to keep up with a 5010 John Deere. There were a couple 660s still around when I was a kid growing up in the 1980s. One neighbor had one...although by that time it had been relegated to duties like auger work, running a batch dryer, hauling bales....menial tasks for a "big brute" tractor. I remember driving that thing a couple times....the front end of that tractor felt it was a city block away from the seat....remember that big looooong nose.

IIRC, my old IH dealer told me he reworked 37 or so 560s for rear end updates over the course of 2 years at his dealership. He would have been just out of college at the time...his Dad would still have been the principal owner at the time.

I know the 560 was considered somewhat of a failure for IH, but every neighbor around me that had one spoke rather fondly of them overall. Everyone sure felt the diesels would run forever on a tank of fuel.

As far as the 06 tractors introduction, wasn't part of the problem that IH and General Motors were working on a joint venture for some kind of Turbo Hydramatic automatic transmission to use in the 06s...but they could never make it shift smoothly? I know Ken Updike has mentioned this several times over the years, but so far there sure doesn't seem like anybody has ever spoken about it from an engineering/development point of view. My understanding was that the IH TA transmission that came out in the 06s was kind of a "midnight hour" production as IH was running out of time to bring something to the market to compete against the New Generation John Deere tractors.

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8 hours ago, SDman said:

As far as the 06 tractors introduction, wasn't part of the problem that IH and General Motors were working on a joint venture for some kind of Turbo Hydramatic automatic transmission to use in the 06s...but they could never make it shift smoothly? I know Ken Updike has mentioned this several times over the years, but so far there sure doesn't seem like anybody has ever spoken about it from an engineering/development point of view. My understanding was that the IH TA transmission that came out in the 06s was kind of a "midnight hour" production as IH was running out of time to bring something to the market to compete against the New Generation John Deere tractors.

Wasn't there a RP article years ago on this?  

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9 hours ago, SDman said:

My old IH dealer would sure agree with that. When we were putting tractors/equipment into the big barn for RPRU 2014 in Huron, a beautifully restored 660 drove by. He looked at that and said something to the effect that the 660 was the biggest piece of junk IH ever made...IH's failed attempt to build something to keep up with a 5010 John Deere. There were a couple 660s still around when I was a kid growing up in the 1980s. One neighbor had one...although by that time it had been relegated to duties like auger work, running a batch dryer, hauling bales....menial tasks for a "big brute" tractor. I remember driving that thing a couple times....the front end of that tractor felt it was a city block away from the seat....remember that big looooong nose.

IIRC, my old IH dealer told me he reworked 37 or so 560s for rear end updates over the course of 2 years at his dealership. He would have been just out of college at the time...his Dad would still have been the principal owner at the time.

I know the 560 was considered somewhat of a failure for IH, but every neighbor around me that had one spoke rather fondly of them overall. Everyone sure felt the diesels would run forever on a tank of fuel.

As far as the 06 tractors introduction, wasn't part of the problem that IH and General Motors were working on a joint venture for some kind of Turbo Hydramatic automatic transmission to use in the 06s...but they could never make it shift smoothly? I know Ken Updike has mentioned this several times over the years, but so far there sure doesn't seem like anybody has ever spoken about it from an engineering/development point of view. My understanding was that the IH TA transmission that came out in the 06s was kind of a "midnight hour" production as IH was running out of time to bring something to the market to compete against the New Generation John Deere tractors.

  That is the problem.  Nobody who was with IH in tractor development at the time has put this down with cited sources which can be checked upon.  One guy says this.  Another guy says that.  As far as competing with JD New Generation that ship left the dock in terms of the 4010.  The 4020 was already out for a few months when the 1st 806 tractors were reaching IH dealers. The 806 diesel would have been a formidable competitor against the 4010 with its Synchro Range transmission but the 8 speed Power Shift offered great versatility for many jobs.  

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Dad's 560 was the first tractor I drove. I pulled a 12ft 37 disk while he stood on the back watching me. I was in grade school.

Dad traded his super c for the 560 around 1970. He was a cowboy and bought a woods 15ft brushog. He didn't own any cropland yet. Everyone said he was crazy, no way you could ever use that much power on a cattle ranch.

Soon afterwards he bought almost 300 acres of cropland. Then he bought an 856 from a friend and a new ih 241 big roll round baler. The first big round baler in our area. They said he was crazy!

The 560 was soon traded for a 706D with the D282. It is a much better tractor.  Still have it.

Sorry but I can't find any pics of the 560...

Have the 706 as the tractor of the week. 

Thx-Ace 

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Dealer here didn't start selling until after the 60's............Previous dealer closed up I was told as they weren't or couldn't keep all the parts inventory required when the 06's came out.  So this former IH dealer I worked at got it then, and had it until the end.  Anyhow, nobody went through the recall mess there so nothing was known.................The head mechanic did tell me those he got real good on the gas engines doing valve jobs on the later series'..............I hear on here about going to low ash oil cured it, his claim was they never got it solved completely, he said look at it.............Who is still out with a 5 bottom plow on their 706 gas running it for broke?  They aren't going to eat valves if they aren't being flogged..............He might be right who knows, but he does have a point about the use................They aren't flogged these days.

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20 hours ago, lorenzo said:

I know where there is an M sitting by a river hooked to a pump that’s irrigating a field of corn right at this very moment. Great on fuel ,  Has been for  years and will be in  the future. 
 

Still plenty of uses for an M and always will be.  Also know of one that’s used to pull a hay rack . 

Thats pretty neat.  I look at my flower bed H and think "if it was mint what could she do here?"  Still have not came up with answer besides parades.  Which are 3 in county so..

A MD on the booster pump when we water some land with 10hp pumps would be good use though

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On 7/14/2021 at 8:44 PM, INTERNATIONAL 1466 said:

Wonder which IH tractor I should pick next for "Tractor of the week". :wacko:

Well if your still taking votes I will put in a 706 or 1206…. I see you did a 8 already. 

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Some further thoughts here about the 4/560. When my IH dealer and I got to discussing the 4/560 rear end fiasco, he alluded to the same thing Ken Updike has mentioned in some of his IH books.....IH dealers had seen the rear end problems that the 4/560 were noted for in the 300/350 and 400/450 models before the 4/560s came out. Evidently it wasn't a big enough problem to deal with at the time(at least in IH's eyes), but the problems were known. My old IH dealer talked about installing the 4/560 updates in previous models as well; he said that in the 60's several IH dealers around here would give a trade premium to a farmer trading in a 3/400 or 3/450 that had been updated to the 4/560 updates, as they knew that would be one less problem to deal with when selling a used tractor to the next guy.

As far as IH's thinking leading up to the 4/560 release, this month's Red Power Magazine has an interesting article written by Bob West that spells out a lot of the problems IH was running into in the mid-1950s. First off, with John McCaffrey as IH's CEO at that time, it was obvious he came from the sales side of the business; R & D budgets were cut across the board at nearly all of IH's many divisions, affecting testing, new products, fixing/eliminating old problems, etc. This all came to a head in about 1957-58 when IH released the 4/560s on the ag side, and the TD-24 on the construction side. From what I've been able to discover, many people in the engineering side of IH's ag & construction divisions warned higher-ups that there were some issues on both products that needed to be dealt with, but they ran into a road block with management higher-ups. The "sell, sell, sell" mentality won out, which would come back to haunt IH as we know. From what I've read about IH over the years, the 4/560 problems paled in comparison to the TD-24 problems; at least with the 4/560 problems, IH was able to recover from the nightmare and still be in good standing with most of their customers. On the construction side, customers just left IH altogether, never to return again.

As far as the 06 auto transmission, one guy that I can remember being attributed to that project was Gordon Hershman(sp?), who was known as being involved in many different projects during his years at IH. Sadly, he passed away years ago. Who knows....maybe the idea was so far-fetched at the time that it wasn't even close to being a real prospect for a workable design

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2 hours ago, SDman said:

From what I've read about IH over the years, the 4/560 problems paled in comparison to the TD-24 problems; at least with the 4/560 problems, IH was able to recover from the nightmare and still be in good standing with most of their customers.

I thought the TD-30 was the worst? No solution other than to just stop building it? Is that correct?

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22 hours ago, SDman said:

My old IH dealer would sure agree with that. When we were putting tractors/equipment into the big barn for RPRU 2014 in Huron, a beautifully restored 660 drove by. He looked at that and said something to the effect that the 660 was the biggest piece of junk IH ever made...IH's failed attempt to build something to keep up with a 5010 John Deere. There were a couple 660s still around when I was a kid growing up in the 1980s. One neighbor had one...although by that time it had been relegated to duties like auger work, running a batch dryer, hauling bales....menial tasks for a "big brute" tractor. I remember driving that thing a couple times....the front end of that tractor felt it was a city block away from the seat....remember that big looooong nose.

 

I know were there is a 660 hand clutch sitting.  Pretty sure there is something catastrophic wrong with it but I should inquire about it anyway.  The 660 competed agains the 830 the first 2 years and then the 4010 the next 3 years.  All three had the same hp.  Course there was never a row crop version of the 660.  If anything Ive always like the looks of the 60 series.  

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8 hours ago, SDman said:

 

 First off, with John McCaffrey as IH's CEO at that time, it was obvious he came from the sales side of the business; R & D budgets were cut across the board at nearly all of IH's many divisions, affecting testing, new products, fixing/eliminating old problems, etc.

And on the opposite side of the spectrum JD threw $7 million of RD at the NG tractors.  I've heard the TD 24 had problems but the only thing that I have turned up is cracking heads due to the lack of coolant space in the top of the head.  

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Latest addition here. Neighbor got this from a jockey for 1k. He wanted the one nearly new 15.5 rear. Other was rotten along with rim. Been setting for 5 years. Hooked on and pulled it about 500 feet and it was running. Changed fuel filters and threw on this $75 set of auction 20.8s to test drive. Seems to run good, PS works but nothing happens when pull TA, just stays in direct. Son offered him 600 and we will dismount tire for him. Looks like a monster with the 20.8s

20210717_165000.jpg

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I grew up on a 560 gas. It was my Grandpas and now my Dads. I remember a New Idea mounted picker with a shelled on it when I was quite young before they bought a combine. Dad pulled a Walsh 500 gallon sprayer with 50’ wheel booms with it for many years. I learned to cultivate with it and a 4 row fast hitch cultivator, spent many days of my childhood on that tractor . Dad now has a wide front on it and a 2000 loader, it’s been worked hard but still going.

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