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1974 International TD-8E, looking for Info


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Got this years ago has some notches on the bottom that measures the thickness and you drop it over the dunce hat and compare the dash number 

81C9C2BB-FB0D-4FF5-B346-8EDE8D1266C4.jpeg

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With as many o-rings as I've dealt with in my life, you'd think I'd have a dozen of these things kicking around.  Now that I don't deal with mechanics and engineering for a career, it would make a lot of sense to have one of these for ordering new ones.  The thing with this particular oring is that it is not just an o-ring, it's more like a silicone gasket with a few different o-rings imbedded in it.  I'm sure I could get away with the main o-ring and some ultra black in a pinch but they were cheap and I am in not big rush or anything (thankfully hehe)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Finally got all the parts in (thanks again Hector) and put the trans strainer back together, replaced that suspect hose to the TC (what a pain in the rump) and got the skid plates bolted back in place (another royal PITA).

 I found at least one major leak that was coming form a loose hose clamp right under the deck plate under the operators left foot (hydraulics if I'm not mistaken) and haven't seen any oil dripping yet, so glad that was an easy fix to a big problem.  

I pulled the valve cover and adjusted the valve tappets, they were out of adjustment by a country mile and would venture to guess they hadn't been touched for decades, she sounds gooood.  Will see tomorrow morning if she starts without ether ?

I do have one kinda strange question before I start digging into it... I have the DT239 which is obviously turbocharged and everything looks normal but I hear NO turbo when the engine is running at any speed, no spool up, no wind down no whistle, nothing!  One half of me would say that's a good thing that you don't hear the turbo, perhaps it was just replace or re-built. The other half of me screams pull it apart and see if the guts are even still there because every turbo diesel I've ever owned or even heard has always had some kind of sound, loud or subtle. What are you all's thoughts on this?  Besides sticking an automotive stethoscope to it, I can't really think of a way to give the turbo a health check.  It's not leaking or making any terrible sounds or anything.  I guess I could pull all the plumbing and let the intake manifold suck straight in and check compression and then pipe the turbo back into the loop and re-check compression, I would only imagine that would yield some kind of answer... just wanted some other experienced advice on this. 

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My loaders IH 301D turbo does not over power the basically wide open exhaust, you can hear it but that exhaust roars at the same time the turbo spools. I put new bearings in my turbo around 1999 so I know its condition well.

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You might be able to hear the turbo wind down if you listen right after you kill the engine. In my experience if a turbo experiences a major failure or has parts missing that machine would likely be very short on power and smoke like crazy at high idle. I’ve seen a lot of complete failures on my farm, mostly broken shafts. When that has  happened our on combines or semi trucks you didn’t have to wonder if it was right, they would barely even run wide open. If it runs good and makes good power I would say there is not much of a chance of a turbo problem, especially if it doesn’t even look oily. My DT429 straight pipe screams, but you can’t really hear the turbo whistle. 

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Thanks for the insight guys!  Yeah, I'm just so use to hearing the turbo but then again, I'm use to hearing truck engines where the exhaust is piped out the rear and not right at the turbo drowning it out.  I have to fire it up in a bit to check the trans fluid again and will stick a stethoscope on it for kicks.  After she's warmed up I'll run her up to high idle and back down a few times to see what I can hear with the stethoscope.  I also usually run with noise cancelling muffs, it helps me be able to listen to an engine without all the excess loud noise... very effective tool really, as it amplifies all the noises I need to hear and quiets the noise I don't need to hear, hopefully that made sense lol.

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More questions I have...

I've been reading up in the tech manual for the machine and I believe I understand fairly well how the trans, steering and hyd systems all communicate and why and how they, for all intents and purposes, use the same fluid.  When I first heard the term "wet clutch" I was initially under the impression that the steering clutch compartment was full of hy-tran but then after reading up what I could on it, I started thinking that maybe they call it "wet" because it uses fluid to actuate the movements of the clutch and brake systems via piston actuators BUT I'm not sure because the tech manual is vague (or I simply haven't made it far enough into it).  If I were to remove the cover (the big bubble under the seat, I would expect to see the planetary/ring & pinion section of the rear in it's own separate "compartment" and the actual steering clutch/brake to be in their own compartments on the outboard sides of the planetary compartments, is that the case or is it all one big bay?  More importantly for my education, are these compartments dry or full of oil like a sump?  Common sense tells me at the very least, the planetary section would be filled with oil but that would indicate that if the clutch compartments are separate, then they could be dry???  Can someone that has actually seen under the "bubble" please erase my ignorance by enlightening me with their experience.  

I'm used to tech manuals having all the pertinent info regarding everything from fluid/filter changes to full on rebuilds of the major components... This manual seems to only have the latter and provides very little in the minor maintenance arena.  My "owner's manual" just happens to be my buddies place so I don't have it right this minute and is driving me nuts.  

That being said, the dipstick under the seat on the right hand side... what exactly is that showing the level of AND is it safe to run with it high?  Right now with the machine off, it is way above the FULL mark, should I be checking this with the machine in neutral while it's running, similar to the trans oil level?  Is there a dipstick (or fill-to-spill plug) for the planetary compartment (what would be the pumpkin/3rd member on an automobile) or is there free communication of oil between the planetary compartment and the steering compartment (one large compartment) and that one dipstick checks fluid levels in that whole compartment???

Lastly, does the torque converter have it's own dipstick or are we simply relying on the transmission fluid level? 

Thank you all so much for the help that you've given thus far and info that will no doubt be needed in the future... I can only hope that once I get all this licked I can jump on here and help others as well.

 

Darrell

 

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No place I know of to check... there are no stock gauges for boost or anything.  I did fire it up and stethoscope it... sounds healthy to me.  I'm going to leave it alone for now and see what kinda power she's got.  

All is solid on her now, only thing left to do is rebuild those two front cylinders but that can wait for a while... it isn't terrible (yet)

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One nice thing that I'm finding out is that all hydraulic cylinders for this machine take the guts (super nice feature, BZ IH!). I figured I'd better go ahead and order kits to rebuild the two leakers and maybe a standby, is there a consensus on the best ones to buy? I guess a better question is are there certain companies out there selling junk cylinder kits that I should stay away from or are they pretty much all the same... made in Taiwan lol?  Only curious because they range from $20 - $60.

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The seals I ordered should be here tomorrow and the fun begins on rebuilding both angle cylinders this weekend if I'm lucky.  Any pointers for me from experience??

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Popping a new piston seal in a cyl is easy to do any very ez to screw up. Be patient !!!  Some cly are not chamfered and deburred as well as could be so look for that were your seal have to pass check that on ports too.  If you are lined up very very straight you can pop them in with a dead blow usualy.  On bigger cyl I have tapped the piston rod assy. in with a fork truck. There are many configurations of cyl construction so it is hard to be specific with out seeing. If the end gland requires a special spanner or the like don't grab a pipe wrench, make a proper one it's worth the time.

good luck!

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Thanks for the advice.  I have big beefy spanners that will work... yeah, I am not a pipe wrench guy unless I'm working on pipe haha.  Got the seals... it'll be my first cylinder rebuild, should be fun.

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Here is a thread i posted a while back on cylinder repacking , Might be a few pointers .

IH 520 Loader Hyd cylinder reseal - IH Construction Equipment - Red Power Magazine Community

 

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Started the seals yesterday, I should say attempted to start... I was able to free one of the cylinders from the machine but although my spanner wrench is large enough for the end cap/nut, it was not strong enough.  First it snapped the hinge pin so I replaced it with a grade 8 bolt and then the handle just started to bend (8' cheater pipe).  My chain wrench and largest pipe wrench is too small as it requires a 5" capacity wrench, ugh.  I recon I now have an excuse to buy some bigger tools 😃.  I have quite a few pieces of heavy equipment that I work on, all having hydraulics and other large components so the big tooling surely won't get rusty from sitting around my shop.  I started shopping around for 36" pipe wrenches and chain wrenches and stumbled on Ridgid's "super" series of compound pipe wrenches, namely the super four since it is the size I will need (They make a "super two" as well as a "super six" and "super eight") .  I've been around pipe wrenches my whole life, even worked as a pipe fitter for a few years and had never seen one.  Anyone here have any experience with them?  They are pricey though so I may just go with a regular pipe or chain wrench, I just thought the compound leverage action of a "super four" might be more torque in the right place and not be quite as damaging to the end cap/nut.  Thoughts?  I'm all for using the tools designed for removing this nut but they just don't make then strong enough, nor do I think anything I could make would be any stronger and well, the nut needs to be removed, it's that simple.

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A bit of heat from a gas wrench wont hurt anything

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Gas wrench... you had me going for a second.  I might apply a little heat from my map gas torch but if need be but I need to acquire the best tool for turning the darn thing first.  Last thing I want to do is be scraping melted rubber from all the grooves.

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I lucked out and had a machine shop move in about 20 miles from me. I didn't get to watch the process but he has a frame about 30 foot long for handling cylinders like you would see under a dump trailer. I have had 3 cylinders off my 7c over to him. 45 dollars each to disassemble and reassemble . The kits were cheap off the internet. For me it was far cheaper than tools and I had a hard enough time getting one with a frozen pin off anyway. You might ask a trailer repair shop where they take those big cylinders near you

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On 8/5/2021 at 8:04 AM, just Dave said:

special spanner or the like don't grab a pipe wrench,

1947140302_Cyltools.thumb.jpg.1d5c9047fb4d1b9da7815140d9f7b273.jpg

These are the kind of thing I mean . If a cyl is tough it takes a custom spanner to get it apart. The lower one catches all 4 notches and is stout enough to stand a 6 foot bar, also short enough to go round and round to unscrew.  You can pry beat and chisel them loose enough to finish with a pipe wrench but it is hard on the end gland.

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For 25 years I was an engineer/machinist but those days of having everything I ever wanted to fabricate anything I could dream up, are in the past.  These days (where I'm at right now anyways) I have very limited metal resources and one very old and tired welder that hangs out in my neighbors barn and it only works half the time lol so making one isn't the most feasible option right now.  

Dave, if you are interested in selling one of those custom wrenches that would fit these cylinders I'd be interested in buying 😁.  

If I do end up going the pipe wrench route, I'd use 2 of them, 180* out from each other to properly distribute the torque applied, they just need to be able to fit over the 4-1/2" diameter which means 36" pipe wrenches (which most Ridgid 36" pipe wrenches have a 5" capacity), ugh... BUT I'll then have two massive pipe wrenches for the rest of life's challenges requiring such tools haha. 

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Years ago I had a cylinder go out on a back hoe, had to be the top cylinder too, I used the pipe wrench method with abit of heat, left it attached to the boom, worked ok, hard part was putting ram back in the cylinder, getting seals compressed and back in was very difficult for me, so when the main cylinder went out, I took it to a truck shop. Long run I felt I saved myself the aggravation, looks like they used heat as well

Mark

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I thought about just taking it to town and having someone do them but come next year I will be living very remote and with multiple pieces of equipment... it only makes sense to me to have the tools and experience under my belt to do these myself.  

I ended up snatching a few 36" pipe wrenches off eBay and am keeping the end caps sprayed down with penetrating oil waiting for them to get here.

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19 hours ago, td9inidaho said:

left it attached

A solid mount is a must this will help

 

On 8/8/2021 at 9:59 AM, junkandcattle said:

45 dollars each to disassemble and reassemble

That is a super deal, most shops are time and material. It might be worth inquiring around.

On 8/8/2021 at 5:40 PM, Koot Kraftsman said:

I have very limited metal resources and one very old and tired welder

Metal is every where you have to be open minded. You will not regret spending money on a welder, I have one I bought over 40 years ago and never had an issue.

You might post a pic of the rod end of your cyl. There are many configurations suggestions are easier if we see.

On 8/5/2021 at 8:04 AM, just Dave said:

Some cyl are not chamfered and deburred as well as could be so look for that

A Factory puts cyl together with special sleeves and other custom tools allowing assembly without all the finishing work when you rebuild add ample chamfers to facilitate assembly.

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I did leave it attached to the machine, it's the logical solution to a solid mount.  

Dave, you're right, metal is everywhere and I could find some pretty easily no doubt but I don't exactly live near town so I line everything up with my trips to town.  I've been in and around metal shops and fabricating tools for decades and I agree, a good welder is a good investment... I just sold off all my nice welders a few months ago as they are stand alone units requiring 220 power.  I have been looking into a good generator welder because that is what I'll be needing where I'm going, the nearest power source to my Montana home is a 45 minute drive (I'm out there) and will likely just wait to buy one there, one less big item I have to haul up there.

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