1974 International TD-8E, looking for Info

[Koot Kraftsman]

Hello everyone, new to the forum. 

I recently sold a JD 450 crawler loader with winch & arch and as part of the deal, the guy traded me an International Harvester TD-8E dozer with 6-way blade. Although the machine looks it's age, everything works as it should as far as I can tell.  Strong & healthy engine (DT239 turbo I believe), It steers great in all gears and both directions, strong hydraulics (2 weepy cylinders), undercarriage looked in fair shape. 

I'm still in the "scratch and sniff" phase with this machine.  Over the past few days I've pressure washed it, pulled panels, covers, shields of and scraped plucked and dug the decades of grease, oil and earth from the machine and pressure washed again. I'm now getting into the inspection and maintenance phase and need some help from you guys because I know almost nothing about this machine. 

It did not come with original manuals or any manuals for that matter which is a real downer but I'm used to it with these older machines, so I ordered a tech, parts and operators manual but they haven't arrived yet.  Since my machine's serial number (last 4: 5505) I see from the charts it was built towards the end of the 1974 model year and am not sure I bought the right manuals.  I found out that these machines had a larger trans in the early models and smaller trans in the later but when was the shift?  Are there other differences in early/late model TD8E's? I'm guessing Dresser bought them out somewhere during the build run and since there are no Dresser markings that the buy-out happened somewhere in the '80s?

Since my next phase on this machine is maintenance, where are all the filters?  The ones that jump out at me are the big air filter at the rear of the engine, the engine oil and fuel in obvious places, but what about trans (is that the one in front of the battery?) and haven't seen the hyd filters but I hear it is in the sump/tank??  I have the skid plates off and cleaned up (that was fun) and I know a lot of machines like this have multiple filters (such as trans), are there any filters that I can change or other maintenance I should be looking at while I have the ski plates off?  

My curiosity really lies in not knowing what to look out for with this machine or any of it's perks. I have owned, operated and repaired a few crawlers over the years but mainly JD 450's and Oliver. I know what to look out for on them but I know nothing about this TD-8E (good or bad).  Can anyone give me the low down on this machine, the good, the bad & the ugly? Would I be able to use later year Dresser TD-8E manuals for this early IH TD-8E? 

What are all the winches that fit on this machine (I hear the Gearmatic 19??)?  How would I know whether or not this machine is even capable of configuring for a winch? I know with JD 450s, you had to have a specific winch drive coming out of the tail end but I hear these used hydraulics off the machine? Where would the connections be? 

It seems like a real solid machine with many design features I like over Deere. What common issues do these machines have? Do they have dry or wet steering clutches (assuming they have steering clutches, don't they)? I hydraulic lines going into the manifold where the steering sticks are and then into what I assume are the clutch compartments so I assume they are wet clutches but Im not positive.  

Any info (good or bad) is more than what I have right now so all is welcome. Thanks so much!
 

[Binderoid]

I was in the market for one after I sold my D4H , but  the prices made my jaw drop!   I thought I would like to off the D4H while it had a nice undercarriage , and get something a hair smaller,  but 12000 for a machine 12 years older? D4H’s in museum condition (which mine is not) are only fetching 26.5$.  I thought maybe I better just live with old Lucy and her quirks.  The point of this rather long response is if they are fetching that kind of money, they must be in demand, and parts apparently available.

[Koot Kraftsman]

That brings up another big question, where does a guy go for parts?  I heard the line of owners of the "brand" has gone from IH to Dresser to Komatsu to Case... I know Case and Komatsu are still in business  but which one has the parts, both?  Who are the best aftermarket or salvage companies that you all have dealt with?

Speaking of parts, I'm guessing someone has all the filter numbers for all the different systems on the TD-8E written down on a sticky note in their manuals... if you are "that guy", can you share?  Thanks! 

[Kevingweq]

Welcome aboard Koot !!

 

They have disc style wet clutches and brakes

Fairly easy to remove and have relined.

Winch drives from pto shaft in rear planetary /steering compartment, you might need to find the proprietary adapters /shaft at the rear case opening to connect to winch

Picture of brake and steer clutches, last picture you can see the PTO shaft that will need to be connected (with shaft and bearings to power winch )

This info is for a TD7C as far as I know 8E should be the same

 

[Koot Kraftsman]

Thanks Kevin!  That is AWESOME news to find out the have wet clutches AND that it should be capable of a winch, now just need to find a winch in good working order and the right PTO shaft.  

Operating the dozer, I have noticed that the steering, although it steers nice and dependably easy, it feels kinda jumpy, in other words, when I go to turn, it TURNS... it's challenging to make a smooth gradual turn (although it is possible with a little finesse).  Is there an adjustment that can be made relatively easily or is it best to leave well enough alone? 

Are the brakes tied into the clutch system like a JD 450 where you pull the sticks halfway back to disengage the clutch and all the way back for brakes or are they separate systems where the brake is only operated with the foot pedal?

I'll be heading to town soon for filters and fluids, what filters and fluids should I run in her?  Filter numbers would be awesome and may help others who visit this thread in the future as well. 

Are there any common issues with this machine that I should keep an eye on?

[Kevingweq]

The clutch and brakes operate with the levers . Pull partway the clutches release, pull further and brakes are applied ,

You should be able to feel this on an incline .

You may need to fine tune the adjustments , Its possible your brakes are coming on a little early . 

Your manuals for a later machine should be OK for the most part

Someone may chime in with filter #'s etc.    NAPA has fairly good listings on IH stuff

[Koot Kraftsman]

Ok, so far, this is what I have been able to dig up on Filters.  I am doing this for future owners asking the same questions as much as I am for myself.  Please correct me if you see anything incorrect. Of course you can always cross reference, I just looked up WIX since they are readily available, NAPA filters are the same, just remove the first digit.

Air Filter:

     Inner:   WIX 46543

     Outer:  WIX 46542

Fuel Filter:  WIX 33166 (I have two identical cartridge filters, other fuel systems for the TD-8E may be different)

Engine Oil Filter:  WIX 51784

Hydraulic Oil Filter:  WIX 51493

Transmission Oil Filter:  WIX 51162

 

Are there any other filters I am missing?

*** What are the best fluids to be running in the Transmission, Rear End, Final Drives,Steering Clutches, & Hydraulic System?  Any special considerations for the DT239 engine oil or coolant or should I just use my regulars?  

What all in the machine shares fluids?

 

 

[DWF]

Transmission would take HyTran or a good generic brand (no yellow can) same with the steering clutches, Hydraulics 10W emgine oil, or AW32 hydraulic oil, finals 80-90 gear oil. engine oil I would use 15W-40 or a straight weight, green anti freeze. I had a 74 TD-8Efor years, a great machine. Late 70's they changed transmissions.

DWF

[Koot Kraftsman]

49 minutes ago, DWF said:

Transmission would take HyTran or a good generic brand (no yellow can) same with the steering clutches, Hydraulics 10W emgine oil, or AW32 hydraulic oil, finals 80-90 gear oil. engine oil I would use 15W-40 or a straight weight, green anti freeze. I had a 74 TD-8Efor years, a great machine. Late 70's they changed transmissions.

DWF

Thanks DWF for the fluid 411!  I guess what I meant by "sharing fluids" was... what components have "open communication" between the different compartments if any?  Like is the steering clutch compartment adjoined and open to the trans and rear end compartment?  Is the powershift trans and planetary rear end in the same compartment?  Are they all literally sharing open fluid flow or is it just the same fluid but all different compartments or a little of both?

 

What were you referencing with "yellow can"?

[nomorejohndeere]

yeller bucket

 

[Koot Kraftsman]

So don't use JD Hy-Gard?  I don't get it... Everything in construction is yellow, or at least different 100 different shades of it ?

Sweet truck btw

[hector gemme]

Dont forget to removed the front transmission streaner for cleaning

[Koot Kraftsman]

Where is this strainer everyone keeps talking about?  I don't see it under my right foot, is it possible the '74 models don't have them?  Pretty sure I have a large trans... it that good or bad? 

 

Got most of the filters and fluid today... time to get to it.

[louie figone]

Transmission filter is accessible from the bottom of the tractor. It's a stainless mesh strainer, washable. Drain the transmission before you pull the cover (7) or you will make a mess.

[hector gemme]

The streaner is in bottom front cover rear the oval cover and near the big hose

[DWF]

Yellow bucket hydraulic transmission oil is usually associated with cheap and or inferior oil. The only oils that are together on that machine are the steering clutches and gears are together. Transmission is alone on that model, newer ones are with steering etc.

DWF

[Koot Kraftsman]

Thanks Louie and Hector!  That looks more like what I have from what I remember when I was under there... I will dig into that later today, I'll have to find some Hy-Tran or other suitable (non yellow bucket, lol) trans fluid before I get started, I imagine I'll need a 5 gallon bucket of whatever I get.  I'd like to put in the IH HyTran but around here all I have seen are John Deere and Kubota dealers, I may want to search for a dealer, I definitely want the right fluids in the right place.  Which brings up another point... DWF, you said steering clutches and gears (I assume you mean the rear end planetary gears) are together but you also said use HyTran for the steering clutches, wouldn't HyTran be too thin for the rear end gears? I would think that steering clutches and rear end gears would take two way different fluids BUT that's why I'm on hear asking the questions from those who have the stick time on these old gals.

Is there anything else I should be doing while I have the skid plates off?  I would like to get her pushing dirt here soon.

[louie figone]

Koot,               Hy-Tran or equivalent oil in the transmission and rear end. I have been using NAPA 85-405 oil in my 100C for many years now, I have had no problems.

[Dirt_Floor_Poor]

Someone mentioned in another thread that New Holland hydraulic oil is now the same as Hy Tran. That said mine (250B) has John Deere oil in it. 

[Koot Kraftsman]

This morning I was at a VA appointment which happened to be close (relatively) to a Case/IH Ag dealer which does me no good for parts but hey, they had the HyTran so I picked up two 5 gallon buckets and will be underneath her here shortly locating the strainer and if it's on the bottom, draining the trans apparently.

I planned on swapping all fluids anyways, so this time isn't a big deal but at basically $100 for a 5 gallon bucket ($5 per qt), that could get expensive for the trans at 28 qts if I have to change out my trans fluid every time I clean the strainer.  I've never been a fan of putting used oil back in a system, especially hyd and trans fluid but I guess if that's normal then I will find some good filtered funnels?  For those with a bottom filter (I'm guessing that's a "big trans" feature), how often does the strainer need to be cleaned?  Are YOU draining and swapping fluid every time you clean it?

Is the big square access panel on the rear skid plate there to give access for cleaning this strainer?  what else should I be looking at doing, maintenance wise, be fore I put the skid plate back on?

Here are some pics I took of her today.  She is not the prettiest girl at the dance but she is clean and a strong running and operating machine and I'd like to keep her that way.  The last paint job she got was not only a shotty job, it was obviously the wrong color, more and more comes off the more I pressure wash so maybe by winter it will be back to the original color ?.  Getting all the maintenance done is my main concern right now.  My new seat and arm rests should be here today or tomorrow so that should make a huge improvement on the comfort in the cockpit.  Put a new 950 CCA NAPA commercial battery in her last week when I cleaned out the battery compartment and got it strapped in nicely.

Anyone know where I can get new track frame covers like the ones sitting on my tracks in the pics, the left front in half busted off and the others are in poor shape from never being cleaned out since probably 1974 .  I have the engine side shields and grill, I just haven't put them back on from the bath I gave her.  Plus all regularly removed panels and covers are getting new bolts and washers as they go back on.

 

[Bulldogred]

Hello sir,I am in the same process as you,If your machine is a p/s it will not have a transmission filter per se but will have the suction strainer at the bottom of the tranny,the filter in your battery compartment is the hydraulic pressure filter and then you have the resevoir filter assembly that you pull out of the resevoir to change.My tractor had the front skid plate missing when I got it .It was misrepresented to me when I bought it,that's what happens when you rely on someone elses' eyes.But all I can do is suck it up and make the best of it.I just came from Case- IH where I bought a injector bleed back line and some o-rings for my machine.I ordered my books from Binderbooks .com and they are good manuals with clear pictures .My machine is a TD-8c as far as I can ascertain,I would think they most share all parts between the machines until Dresser started putting Cummins engines in them.I have some filter part numbers for you.Transmission pressure filter is 615447C1,O-ring 343912R1.The p/s strainer o-ring which is the same as a 1086 tractor is 285253R1.Hydraulic oil resevoir element is 623017C1 and o-ring 254091R1 however Case-IH didn't have those in stock but the they subbed to NAPA1493 and the o-ring comes with the filter.Neither Case-IH nor NAPA had the primary and secondary air filters in stock which blew my mind as many of these engines were used,my dealer parts guy is researching it across all applications to see if he can find them.Engine oil filter is NAPA1789 and I used IH No.1 10w-40oil.I'm going to clean my p/s strainer and replace fluid with HY-Tran this weekend,I paid 84$ a 5 gal pail and it takes almost 2.The p/s  and its' transmission is separate from the rest of the tractor and I feel it's important to use the HY-TRAN in it.I used HY-TRAN ULTRA.I replaced my engine oil pressure gauge as the original wanted to stick and it has about 50 lbs at idle and 70 at rated rpm.Oh yeah,primary and secondary fuel filter numbers are 3 132428R1 which are called spin ons but at Case-IH they subbed to a cartridge type and they DID have them.I ordered and recieved a front belly pan from a salvage yard and I removed and cleaned  the back bellypan and also repaired the access panel on it.I removed and replaced 2 bad hydraulic lines under there and leak check them and inspected everything else and I think I will be ok.I let it run at rated throttle for about 5 min on a white sand road and there were no leaks.I've only got about 13 acres of woods I want to clear with this machine it has good sprockets and rollers but this machine came out of Florida and has severe corrosion on the grousers so I'm thinking I'm going to have to spend major money on new tracks and chains.Chain tensioners seem to be holding good.I will NEVER buy another piece of equipment online without putting my eyes on it.If you pull the floorboard on the operators platform and you see a driveshaft that is the small tranny I believe,my machine with the p/s just had a "coupler" u- joint,so I assume it's the larger transmission.I'm sure you probably know you run this machine at high idle for max pushing.

[davo727]

I was thinking that one of the SCA charged ELC coolants are better in any of these diesels.  I only run the plain green in my gas trucks. 

[Koot Kraftsman]

Bulldogred, Thanks for chiming in on the thread, good to know I'm not alone out there.  If you scroll up I put the all the WIX filter numbers up there in case you are having a bugger of a time finding IH/CASE filters.  I always use WIX (NAPA filters are made by WIX) or Fleetguard filters.  I went to my local tractor / implements guy (One of those old local places, the old Koot has been working there since the 50's and has been running it for like 40 years) and he had the oil and fuel filters in stock and the rest will be there in a few days, even the inner and outer air filters so WIX definitely carries every filter for our machines.

I can't say mine doesn't leak haha, both of my blade direction cylinders are leaking and the bottom of just about every component down the middle has an oil sheen but nothing leaking bad or anything, all the levels seem to be holding.  Once I drain the trans fluid and clean the strainer tomorrow, I will fill her up with HYTRAN, put the skid plates back on and put her a$$ to work. The first day I work her will be a good test and you can bet I'll be keeping a close eye on all the levels. 

I definitely have the big trans also... No drive shaft, just a U-joint and the strainer is on the bottom, I'm guessing the square bolt-on panel on the rear skid plate is there to give access to clean that filter but that's just a guess until I put it back on and give it a look-see.

The filter that's in the front of the battery box is positively my transmission filter, not a secondary hydraulic pressure filter.  The outlet hose pipes right into the top front of the trans and the inlet is a hose that goes across the trans and down into the frame rails, no doubt carrying oil from the trans oil cooler up to the filter.  That might be one difference between C and E???

Yeah, I'm no stranger to tractors and crawlers, hoes, etc... just to this particular machine.  I typically run between 3/4 -full throttle in 1st or 2nd gear for the heavy operations, using the de-cel pedal to regulate engine speed and for shifting between fwd and reverse (when I'm being a smart man).  I like to think of the de-cel pedal like the gas pedal in your car only in reverse, I just leave it at a good high operating range since that's where it will be most of the time and then use the de-cel when slowing down to shift direction, you'll hardly ever find me idling equipment engines and when I do, it isn't for very long, it's not good for them to idle for long periods . 

I hear ya on the sight unseen deal.  I learned my lesson many years ago and not just sight unseen but being able to focus and FULLY inspect a machine and know exactly what you're buying.  As I look back, in my younger years, I went through the paces and looked at what I thought was important but never "really" inspected anything and then you get it home and start familiarizing youself with it and that's when you realize you should have done a better job of inspectin the machine instead of talking about other frivolous bs.  When I go to look at something big like this, I'm usually there for 2+ hours.  When I looked at this machine, I was literally there inspecting and wheeling& dealing for 8 hours!

 

[Koot Kraftsman]

18 minutes ago, davo727 said:

I was thinking that one of the SCA charged ELC coolants are better in any of these diesels.  I only run the plain green in my gas trucks. 

I was told the book says green coolant, I hope that's right because that is what mine is full of ha.  I can't wait for my books to get here.

[Koot Kraftsman]

Of course, the one spot I didn't get to while cleaning underneath is the one pot I take a pic of... I must punish myself tomorrow whilst cleaning the strainer.  Silly question but what do you all use to drain the trans fluid into when you plan to filter and re-use it?  Will a 5 gallon bucket even fit under there?