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I use a big "Phase-o-matic" here................Worked at a few places with rotary converters, if I ever get a CNC vertical machining center I will have to switch, but for right now, my P-O-M works really well.

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3 hours ago, forwhldrv said:

Not sure what they are but my younger brother has a couple of surface grinders. That came out of a machine shop not far from the brown and sharp factory. He’s the machinist  he runs his 3 phase stuff off a phase converter. Some of his bigger lathes he hasn’t run. We don’t have enough electricity for a bigger phase converter. It takes him forever to do something he’s alway doing something more important but he will machine parts for us now and then 

If your brother is interested in running the larger lathes, all he needs is a 5hp 3450 rpm 3 phase motor, 2 capacitors and a light switch.  A manual start phase converter. Let it run as long as you’re in the shop and you can start and stop anything at will. Just wire everything parallel to that motor.

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4 minutes ago, Binderoid said:

If your brother is interested in running the larger lathes, all he needs is a 5hp 3450 rpm 3 phase motor, 2 capacitors and a light switch.  A manual start phase converter. Let it run as long as you’re in the shop and you can start and stop anything at will. Just wire everything parallel to that motor.

It is also possible, depending on how big of motors you already have, is leave one machine running, and wire the larger lathe parallel to this circuit. But if the machine only has a 1750 rpm motor , this doesn’t work quite well if you need maximum starting torque, due to the sine waves in the phases being out of sync. 

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55 minutes ago, Binderoid said:

If your brother is interested in running the larger lathes, all he needs is a 5hp 3450 rpm 3 phase motor, 2 capacitors and a light switch.  A manual start phase converter. Let it run as long as you’re in the shop and you can start and stop anything at will. Just wire everything parallel to that motor.

I don’t know what he is running I think now it’s a 5ho rotary phase converter. He built one out of a 10 hp motor and when he was trying to start the big lathes he has it would pull down the voltage coming in to like 90 volts. Got the power company to put a transformer on the plow leading to the house  and it’s still wasn’t enough. Also changed out the service panel to a 400 amp from a 200 and it still didn’t help. He has bought a army surplus 60 kw generator but hasn’t got it all together yet. It was 800$ at an auction a few years ago it has less than 500 hrs run time on it but it was a spare generator for the town that had it and they robbed som switches and parts off it. We had it running a few years ago when he bought it it ran good made power. Just expensive to run  with a 165hp Allie chalmers diesel in it. 

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Brown and Sharpe made a very good grinder. This is obviously an older unit. With the permanent magnet, there should be no wires for it to the magnet, just flip the handle on the front.

I don't know how much you want to run this, but the handle that makes the table go left and right, from the picture appears to be on the low side. Your going to want a rocking left to right motion as you run it. If it is not the right height, it will be very uncomfortable for you to use it, hard on the arm and shoulder. the newer ones, the handle is up in height with the in and out handle.

Depending on what you are going to use it for, if your grinding knife blades that's one thing, if you are trying to grind an 8" long piece of steel flat and parallel, that's another story. The table should lift straight up off, and roll on a series of balls that are encaged usually in a plastic retainer. If it has been used a lot and not  lubricated well, it will wear into the "V" groove that the balls ride in.

As far as the magnet, people have a tendency to want to drag things off of the magnet. It will have a reverse "V" shape wear pattern on it, narrow at the back and wider at the front. This is why you wind up grinding the magnet, to get this hollow out of it. Doing this, heat is your enemy. Rough dress wheel, either use paraffin wax on the wheel, or soak with WD40. Go about .0003 deep across the entire chuck, and then again, etc. until cleaned up. Again, this depends on what you want it for.

Around here, I think used ones will be in the $2,500 range, for more newer than yours. If you think the price is high, have the owner fire it up, dress the wheel, and grind something. The last thing you want to do, is get it and have to replace the spindle bearings. I am sure that would not be cheap. If it is in good usable shape, you should be able to grind something with a decent finish and have no ripples in it. If it basically hops across the piece, it has a spindle or table guide issue.

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20 hours ago, forwhldrv said:

I don’t know what he is running I think now it’s a 5ho rotary phase converter. He built one out of a 10 hp motor and when he was trying to start the big lathes he has it would pull down the voltage coming in to like 90 volts. Got the power company to put a transformer on the plow leading to the house  and it’s still wasn’t enough. Also changed out the service panel to a 400 amp from a 200 and it still didn’t help. He has bought a army surplus 60 kw generator but hasn’t got it all together yet. It was 800$ at an auction a few years ago it has less than 500 hrs run time on it but it was a spare generator for the town that had it and they robbed som switches and parts off it. We had it running a few years ago when he bought it it ran good made power. Just expensive to run  with a 165hp Allie chalmers diesel in it. 

The power company agreed to change the transformer, and they can’t tell you what the problem is? 200 amps won’t start it? You sure the motor is any good?  

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23 hours ago, 1586 Jeff said:

Hey now!

Is that any way to talk about Carson and Theo?

Theo hates the shop, Carson rarely enters it also. Mainly talking about me and the mice….

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2 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

For those who need to do large fab work one of these is a must 

https://rockford.craigslist.org/grd/d/oglesby-industrial-drill-press/7340242206.html

Until you get up into very large radial drills, I find it just as easy to use a box way Bridgeport and not need 2 machines sitting around taking up space.  I myself rather have a K&T or Milwaukee that has both horizonal and vertical machining capabilities(With the drive head installed) than a radial drill.  For some reason around me, they were not a popular machine, everyone had Bridgeports and horizonal mills(Usually Cincinnati's) so finding one close is hard..........guy had one(K&T) for sale acouple years back, was headed to go look at it and buy it, he called me, decided he better keep it.........Rats, haven't seen one since.  One of those, and a Hardinge Super Precision Lathe and I would be set for manual machine tools.

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43 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

Until you get up into very large radial drills, I find it just as easy to use a box way Bridgeport and not need 2 machines sitting around taking up space.  I myself rather have a K&T or Milwaukee that has both horizonal and vertical machining capabilities(With the drive head installed) than a radial drill.  For some reason around me, they were not a popular machine, everyone had Bridgeports and horizonal mills(Usually Cincinnati's) so finding one close is hard..........guy had one(K&T) for sale acouple years back, was headed to go look at it and buy it, he called me, decided he better keep it.........Rats, haven't seen one since.  One of those, and a Hardinge Super Precision Lathe and I would be set for manual machine tools.

I talking big stuff

You can get a very large plate on radial drill 

Worked at a place that made large winders for textile and paper industry. 

The side frames were  made of 1" plate most winders side frames were 4' x 6' the two plates were clamped together the bottoms would be ground flush by hand as the datum.

Then we would layout all holes bolt circles and bearing bores buy hand and and they were all drilled, tapped and bored with the radial drill the plates would be indexed into the volume to reach all features.

Sounds crude but CNC milling machines that size are pretty pricey.

When I worked at Electric Boat we did bolt circles on low tolerance 10' flanges on a radial drill as well same process layout by hand and index into the machine volume to get all holes.

EB had some big horizontal CNC milling machines with 20' beds those were reserved for high tolerance profile work    

 

    

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46 minutes ago, jeeper61 said:

I talking big stuff

You can get a very large plate on radial drill 

Worked at a place that made large winders for textile and paper industry. 

The side frames were  made of 1" plate most winders side frames were 4' x 6' the two plates were clamped together the bottoms would be ground flush by hand as the datum.

Then we would layout all holes bolt circles and bearing bores buy hand and and they were all drilled, tapped and bored with the radial drill the plates would be indexed into the volume to reach all features.

Sounds crude but CNC milling machines that size are pretty pricey.

When I worked at Electric Boat we did bolt circles on low tolerance 10' flanges on a radial drill as well same process layout by hand and index into the machine volume to get all holes.

EB had some big horizontal CNC milling machines with 20' beds those were reserved for high tolerance profile work    

 

    

The radial drill has to be decent size to do so is my point, that one in your link looks like a elf one with a 6ft tall post.............anything that would accomplish could be done in my Cat 40 box way heavy knee mill with "Kustom" work holding devices.............and will do alot of other things that radial drill won't.  Now if you watch Brian Block on youtube, the radial drill he has would be worth having!!!!  

To tell you the truth, I only ever working in one shop with a radial drill, and it was hardly ever used.................most everything needed a mill operation, so nothing was gained.  I got to say, I worked at a place with a HAAS TM-2, did stuff on that OSHA would consider dangerous, but that was like the backhoe of machine tools.  Would love to have one here at home, but I don't even believe Haas makes the open TM series mills now.............Probably everyone was doing what we were with them.

 

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27 minutes ago, TP from Central PA said:

The radial drill has to be decent size to do so is my point, that one in your link looks like a elf one with a 6ft tall post.............anything that would accomplish could be done in my Cat 40 box way heavy knee mill with "Kustom" work holding devices.............and will do alot of other things that radial drill won't.  Now if you watch Brian Block on youtube, the radial drill he has would be worth having!!!!  

To tell you the truth, I only ever working in one shop with a radial drill, and it was hardly ever used.................most everything needed a mill operation, so nothing was gained.  I got to say, I worked at a place with a HAAS TM-2, did stuff on that OSHA would consider dangerous, but that was like the backhoe of machine tools.  Would love to have one here at home, but I don't even believe Haas makes the open TM series mills now.............Probably everyone was doing what we were with them.

 

You don't need much column height for the plate work

We had 6 of these G&Ls at Electric Boat for the same kind work we did on the radial drill at the winder place they just didn't have the budget for a large mill

Didn't stop them from making very large machinery 

 14455-1552917287-1139.jpg

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That G&L picture could almost pass for my wife's employer.............I think they got rid of there radial drill long ago too, never used it, everything had a mill operation as well.  

They probably could have paid for the mill with all the layout time you had for the radial drill if you were running those hard...............Even a simple DRO on the mill would have sped things up.  But I know how that goes, last place I worked out we still had to run indicators on acouple lathes and mills as our poor mans DRO...............Owner said a DRO was to expensive, but so was screwing around running off dials:rolleyes:  Also said the USA made HAAS machines were junk and would never own one, but the DGM Mori Seiki Tech lived at the place...............

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If you haven't bought this machine yet here are a few points to consider. Brown and Sharp made a good quality product, but the machine is only as good as how well it's been looked after, and how often it has been used.

1. Place the table in mid stroke and rock the table diagonally to see how much slop is in the ways. Do the same at both stroke ends. Snug at all three locations is good.

2. Look at the ways (if you can see them) and check for witness marks of wear. Deep scratches in the direction of travel on the main slide would be a concern. If the hand scrapping marks are still there you should be OK.

3. Lift the grinding stone spindle up and down and look for looseness in the spindle bearings and vertical axis. Snug is better.

4. Phase O Matic if I remember correctly was the brand name of a motor controller for the main slide motor (if so equipped) and may indicate that this could be a three phase grinder and the Phase O Matic is used to make single phase DC power for the main slide or traverse motor (if so equipped). Look at the blue prints or better yet, motor nameplate(s) to verify that this in fact a single phase machine as the conversion costs can be expensive if it is a three phase machine.

5. Try to verify that all motors are in working condition (run them). If you buy it untested, you are taking a chance.

6. Consider any problems found in your final offer of purchase.

I hope it all works out well for you. I'd love to have one myself.

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