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Super MTA oiling issue


AGGIE
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 So my son and I have overhauled a gas super mta. We got it all back together running like a top. We had a implement dealer who has a machine shop do all the machine work including going through oil pump. The problem is we cannot get any oil out of the rocker shaft. Everything else has oil we put a new gauge on it. We have a ton of pressure according to gauge. We tore it back apart to check bearings to make sure they were installed properly. We are stumped. The oil passages are all open. The shaft is clean. Just looking for suggestions.

Thanks

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Seems I vaguely remember someone having this before and the head gasket was "flipped"?  Gasket blocked the passage? (not symmetrical)  Not sure - someone else will chime in shortly to confirm or negate.

 

Thanks

Mark

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The rocker shaft gets fed through the center cam bearing.  So, hole orientation in cam bearing or head gasket should be only possible obstructions.  Here are a couple pics from lub pages.

Dennis 

IMG_20210629_155450380.thumb.jpg.0160bd037bd1979171a3e287ab72253d.jpgIMG_20210629_155617424.thumb.jpg.c79d66ded1a74fb125e7c386930e03be.jpg

 

 

 

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I bet on a turned center cam bearing blocking of the oil supply here are two holes in the bearing that have to line up with the block passages . Maybe the installer linee up the wrong hole with the passage you can see from the main bearing then the other hole would be totally blocked off.

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So I have a camera. We pulled the cam back out. The holes in cam bearing line up with the block. I checked the port through the head gasket. That is open. I checked center main bearing. Both halves have holes in bearings so we did not put wrong half in before we installed crank. Did all this with motor still in. Crank is still in engine also. Looking like I may have to finish pulling motor and pull crank rest of way out.

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Anything blocking the copper tube that jumps from head port to rocker shaft? (I assume yours is like this)  Carpenter Bees can clog a hole quite quickly....

 

Thanks

Mark

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Oil to the top doesn't come from the crankshaft.  DT361 could be on to something .  Sorry for your problems after all your work.  Can you check with air?  Maybe already have.  Good luck to you 

Dennis

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Copper tube is clear. Had the complete rocker shaft apart everything looks good there.

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Posted (edited)

Aggie,. The cam has a slit in the journal for the purpose of sending a squirt to the rockers as it rotates.  Is it possible you did not run it long enough for oil to get up there?  It takes a bit of time as I recall.  We are all curious what you find.  Frustrating for you for sure.  

One other thing, Is the rest of the engine getting oil?

Dennis

Edited by farmalldr
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IIRC from way back...bolts and or rocker shafts can be mixed up( orientation ) on some models

need to rig up no running oiling and add back parts after confirming flow to each point

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Rest of engine is getting oil. We ran the tractor for about an hour to get warm to check valve and check for leaks. When we pulled valve cover that when we realized there was no oil up top.

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So I just had a thought. We put 15-40 in it for engine oil. Would that be to thin that it would not pump up?

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Oil to the top should be WAY before an hour.  Nothing wrong with 15-40 oil.  How much is a ton of oil pressure?  You need a gauge with numbers for test.

Dennis

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We ordered a new gauge from steiner tractor that was for the tractor. It does not have numbers an it was just past 3/4 on the gauge.

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2 hours ago, AGGIE said:

We ordered a new gauge from steiner tractor that was for the tractor. It does not have numbers an it was just past 3/4 on the gauge.

You should be good there.  The search goes on.  My tractors have same gauges.

Dennis

 

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Is the camshaft the original, or is it a aftermarket, or re-grind?  Is it possible the center bearing journal of the cam is ground incorrectly & lacks the lube slot to send oil to the necessary passage that would send it up to the head?

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Boy I would be half tempted to use a regulator to push air backwards through the oil hole. Make sure to pull cam and make a pvc trough to catch whatever may blow out. There has to be something blocking the passage way. If the cam feeds the rockets, abd the bearings are orientated right, then there has to be something blocking it from cam to rocker. 

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is the cam still out ? If so run a wire down through the head the gasket  and block to the cam bearing. You could also use air pressure.

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Could the rocker post be put together wrong on these if it was disassembled? 

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Curious if you have found out the issue yet ? 

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So sorry I haven't had time to respond. I spent the last week getting ready for and having my local community fair on the weekend. But we were looking last week and it dawned on me that when we took the block to the machine shop to get the work done the webbing above the center main support was cracked. Was told by machinist that it was no big deal they would drill it out and install a stud into the block to hold the main cap on.  And weld the block up. So I looked and it is possible that they put the stud through the oil passage. We tried sticking a small piece of wire from the cam bearing into that  passage. It does not go very far and stops. Next step is to finish pulling motor now the fair is over and get it into a better position to look. If we find that that is it for sure will post some pics to show. Other questions the cam is original and checked out did not get reground or anything else done to it. Thanks for the help. Hopefully by the end of the weekend, I will have the answers I need.

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Well that's an interesting one!  Is there an outside plug in the block there? - to drill through that stud to reopen the passage(s)?  Almost looks like it could have been blocking flow to the center main and rods 2&3, too (if that's what the problem actually is).

 

Hope you've found it.  Don't know about anyone else, but I was out of spit-balls!

 

PS - if your machinist did this studding, did they also, by chance, check saddle alignment and align-hone if needed?  With a block crack, probably should at least be checked.

 

Thanks

Mark

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