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Synchronizer for 4th gear on a 1963 IH Loadstar 1600


Newc45
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I've been using a bungee strap to hold the gear shift in 4th so it doesn't keep jumping out of gear.  Is this harmful to the transmission?  I'd like to get a synchronizer for the transmission but haven't been able to find on.

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Ah, the memories of DAD tying the gear shift into 5th gear in the CO-190's he used to drive with 5+2's.

  The guy had a GMC tiltcab with a 5+2 that was a "Working 4th & 5th" He'd go from hi 4th into lo 5th and tie it into 5th and shifted between lo & hi axle.  Those big V-6's pulled much better than the RD-450 Binders.

New Process made a 5-speed, think it was NP-542 that was similar to the 435. I had two F-150's with NP-435's, if Ford hadn't switched transmissions to ANYTHING other than New Process I'd have bought a different brand of pickup in '96.  Even GM switched to ZF.

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On 6/9/2021 at 2:34 PM, Newc45 said:

I've been using a bungee strap to hold the gear shift in 4th so it doesn't keep jumping out of gear.  Is this harmful to the transmission?  I'd like to get a synchronizer for the transmission but haven't been able to find on.

Sounds more to me like a broken detent spring. If it doesn’t grind going into 4th there is nothing wrong with the synchro.

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13 hours ago, Binderoid said:

Sounds more to me like a broken detent spring. If it doesn’t grind going into 4th there is nothing wrong with the synchro.

Yeah, we had a Clark 5-speed that would sometimes grind going into 3rd gear. Synchronizer was obviously bad but it stayed in 3rd gear.

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On 6/11/2021 at 7:49 AM, Binderoid said:

Sounds more to me like a broken detent spring. If it doesn’t grind going into 4th there is nothing wrong with the synchro.

The NP-435 in my '87 F-150 I ordered out new started out just ticking a couple gear teeth in 3rd & 4th,  driving up our long curving drive at work I'd downshift into 3rd and stay in 3rd till I parked, Company mandated 10 mph speed limit,  and I'd back off as I crossed the sidewalks where everybody walked across the drive into the building. Around 100,000 miles on the truck it would shift into nuetral every day as soon as I backed off the gas.  I actually looked at trading for a Dodge 1500 4wd,  nice little truck on my dealer's lot, 318 & NV3500 5-spd and part-time 4wd.  Then I found out how weak the NV3500 was!  I'd wasted several Hundred Bucks about 1985 having the 3-4 synchro replaced in the NP-435 in my '78 F-150 as well as the clutch, I thought it had a Long style pressure plate, or possibly Borg&Beck, but it was a diaphram style, and the bellville spring cracked between two fingers, wouldn't engage and wouldn't release.  And I wanted a LONG STYLE pressure plate.  Nothing anywhere available, even the engine machine shop HOT ROD MAGAZINE was in love with could NOT redrill my 300-6's flywheel to bolt a different pressure plate to it.  Guess they didn't understand threading bolts into the old holes, lock-tight them in, mill/grind them off, then drill new holes, & balance frywheel with new pressure plate. Makes you wonder how they built 8000 rpm Chevy small blocks doesn't it?  Then the transmission shop only HALF put my truck back together, missing parts, missing hardware, loose hardware.  I went down and had words with the owner.  He got lippy and told me to leave or else.

     Then I got my F250 PSD.  I come home from somewhere one Saturday. and there's a RAM 3500 dually CTD idling in my driveway,  flatbed, typical company truck,  I jump in behind the wheel, NV4500, pull out the driveway, slowly run up thru the gears, and every shift I can feel it letting a couple gear teeth click by instead of engaging.  The clock showed something over 150,000 miles. The trans felt EXACTLY like every manual trans in every " Experienced" UPS package car I had driven, you shift fast enough you engage the gears before they can clash.  Oh, and before anyone asks, in one month, I ran 13 different routes in 13 consecutive days in 13 different trucks.  They had two 8-Cube trucks, 8 cubic yard capacity, with 292 & NP-542 5-spds,  which was a nice progressive transmission, with poor synchros.  They had two '50's vintage IH package cars, kinda like IH Metro's, bet they had 300,000-400,000 miles, maybe more. I drove them when I first started on "Half Day routes", start at 11 AM or Noon, help unload and sort packages picked up that day, then run Iowa bound packages to the Davenport hub.

    All this said, the ZF 5-47 in my F-250 still shifts like new with 320,000 miles on it. We put a new LUK clutch in the truck around 150,000 because of the dual mass flywheel. Done 3 oil changes in it, every 100,000 miles.  A Road-Ranger is the only trans I think could be better than the ZF.  But NEVER been a fan of floating shifts in synchromesh trans, but without synchro's the only way to grab gears.

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13 hours ago, DOCTOR EVIL said:

The NP-435 in my '87 F-150 I ordered out new started out just ticking a couple gear teeth in 3rd & 4th,  driving up our long curving drive at work I'd downshift into 3rd and stay in 3rd till I parked, Company mandated 10 mph speed limit,  and I'd back off as I crossed the sidewalks where everybody walked across the drive into the building. Around 100,000 miles on the truck it would shift into nuetral every day as soon as I backed off the gas.  I actually looked at trading for a Dodge 1500 4wd,  nice little truck on my dealer's lot, 318 & NV3500 5-spd and part-time 4wd.  Then I found out how weak the NV3500 was!  I'd wasted several Hundred Bucks about 1985 having the 3-4 synchro replaced in the NP-435 in my '78 F-150 as well as the clutch, I thought it had a Long style pressure plate, or possibly Borg&Beck, but it was a diaphram style, and the bellville spring cracked between two fingers, wouldn't engage and wouldn't release.  And I wanted a LONG STYLE pressure plate.  Nothing anywhere available, even the engine machine shop HOT ROD MAGAZINE was in love with could NOT redrill my 300-6's flywheel to bolt a different pressure plate to it.  Guess they didn't understand threading bolts into the old holes, lock-tight them in, mill/grind them off, then drill new holes, & balance frywheel with new pressure plate. Makes you wonder how they built 8000 rpm Chevy small blocks doesn't it?  Then the transmission shop only HALF put my truck back together, missing parts, missing hardware, loose hardware.  I went down and had words with the owner.  He got lippy and told me to leave or else.

     Then I got my F250 PSD.  I come home from somewhere one Saturday. and there's a RAM 3500 dually CTD idling in my driveway,  flatbed, typical company truck,  I jump in behind the wheel, NV4500, pull out the driveway, slowly run up thru the gears, and every shift I can feel it letting a couple gear teeth click by instead of engaging.  The clock showed something over 150,000 miles. The trans felt EXACTLY like every manual trans in every " Experienced" UPS package car I had driven, you shift fast enough you engage the gears before they can clash.  Oh, and before anyone asks, in one month, I ran 13 different routes in 13 consecutive days in 13 different trucks.  They had two 8-Cube trucks, 8 cubic yard capacity, with 292 & NP-542 5-spds,  which was a nice progressive transmission, with poor synchros.  They had two '50's vintage IH package cars, kinda like IH Metro's, bet they had 300,000-400,000 miles, maybe more. I drove them when I first started on "Half Day routes", start at 11 AM or Noon, help unload and sort packages picked up that day, then run Iowa bound packages to the Davenport hub.

    All this said, the ZF 5-47 in my F-250 still shifts like new with 320,000 miles on it. We put a new LUK clutch in the truck around 150,000 because of the dual mass flywheel. Done 3 oil changes in it, every 100,000 miles.  A Road-Ranger is the only trans I think could be better than the ZF.  But NEVER been a fan of floating shifts in synchromesh trans, but without synchro's the only way to grab gears.

Not sure what my quote had to do with that autobiography but it sure was interesting ?

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On 6/9/2021 at 10:13 PM, lightninboy said:

Is it NP-435?

Way before the NP435, and the NP-435 was basically used for light duty vehicles. I have one that came out of a middle 70.s  Dodge D100 4X4.

Ford could have used it in something at the 1800 range but not a real truck company like  IHC.

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On 6/15/2021 at 4:34 PM, lightninboy said:

The NP435 was made by New Process Gear from 1962 thru 1997. They were in Loadstar 1600s at least sometimes.

Ford stopped using the NP-435 sometime around 1990 give or take several years. They used some lame MAZDA 5-SPEED that was 5th overdrive.  

   I joined a FORD N-SERIES Facebook page several weeks ago. Guys send pictures and serial numbers to the moderator and he posts back the way the truck was optioned out, engine, transmission, rear axle ratio,  frt & rear axle weight rating plus GCWR, color of paint and seat upolstry.  It's amazing how big of trucks Ford built with NP-435's and 2-speed axles.  I know I saw some N-600's, a 650, and a 750 I think. lots of small engines too even couple 6 cylinders.

    The 435's I'm familiar with had a non-synchro 6.67:1 first gear. 3.34:1 second, 1.67:1 third, 1:1 forth,  WAY TOO BIG of gaps between gears.

   I know IH had the same selection of transmissions and axles and little engines that tried REAL HARD,  but big six cylinders or V-8's they only seemed to pull with much authority to 2000 rpm,  then you held the gas pedal to the floor until they buzzed up to 3000 rpm, and up-shifted, and instantly went wide open again. Then waited again.  More gears and smaller steps between gears REALLY made a difference in getting big loads moving, you could stay in the upper end of the operating range where you had more torque & HP.  Small construction company in my home town had a pair of LoadStar tandem dump trucks, probably 392 gas V-8's and 4x4 transmissions, they hauled several thousand tons of crushed rock into the new Football field & track behind the highschool, I had Drafting & Shop class about 10 AM on the back side of the school, when they pulled into the back service drive to drive the 500 feet to turn right onto the track I bet they upshifted 7-8 times and still only went 20 mph. Was 11 miles between HS and quarry, might see both trucks twice in an hour if lucky.

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Some Man. trans use shift keys to stay in gear. Small blocks of steel with a spring under. They toggle back and forth like a teter-toter as a shift spool is moved from 1 gear to another. Usually three to a spool. I agree sycros are for smooth engagement only not retention.

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That’s most likely a Warner T 98 4 speed. Good tranny but there is a big hole between 3 and 4. I agree, sounds like a decent spring, you might get lucky and be able to fix it  by pulling the top cover. If you have a service manual the tranny section is very through. 

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