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Need 966 Transmission Help Please Sirs and Madams.


Racinrick
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I have a 966 I'm parting out, separated the diesel engine from the tractor, and was pulling the front transmission/bellhousing case from the differential housing case.  The rockshaft still sits on the tractor, and all exterior linkages to the clutch and  etc were disconnected.   I pulled the front shifter plate, unbolted the two cases and very gently eased my forklift under the front transmission case from where the engine had been.  Applying a gentle lift to insure alignment I carefully eased back with the forklift.  All was going well, the two housings separated about an inch then clunk...I cannot get complete separation.  I've tried a pry bar from all directions, it will wiggle about a half inch either way right or left, up or down.  It feels like there is a C clip or snap ring holding it together somewhere, but it's hard for me to believe it would separate an inch before it encountered a retainer of some sort.  Someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong.  Thank you in advance.

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I'm betting the IPTO driven gear is hung up on the splined shaft that runs clear to the front of the T/A housing.  There's a 4 bolt cap in the T/A housing, right in the large clutch opening, take that cap off.  Probably going to have to remove the MCV valve from the T/A housing (if you haven't already) to be able to see to pry the gear off the shaft.  They're just a large 6-spline shaft & gear, and usually come off decent, but they can put up a fight sometimes.

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Remove the transmission cover under the center section.  You will find that the large forward gear is cocked as it tries to slide off of the splines on the lower shaft.  Ease the housing back towards the rear end a little to take the pressure off of the gear.  Now, use a bar next to the gear to wobble that gear to keep it from cocking as you back up the fork lift.  In your case since you are using a forklift to split it, a second person would be handy.

We have all encountered this dilemma the 1st time that we split any of those tractors from a 706 to a 1486.

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The 2 previous posters are right. I saw a picture somewhere of using 2 bolts with nuts to hold the gear into the race. I did it one time then always used a pry bar after that. 

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Wow, thank you all so much.  It is definitely that large PTO gear hanging on the shaft.  I could not move the front case back in place enough to get a pry bar in to relieve the stress on that gear, so I took the four retaining bolts out careful not to lose a hand in the process and then tried again backing the forklift.  It's still stuck, but at least I'm not confounded about where the problem is.  Also, my forklift started having fuel problems, would run for like 3 seconds and shutdown.  The stuck gear problem and the forklift problem were getting the best of me from a frustration standpoint, then I started hearing thunder directly overhead.  I'm doing this outside as my shop isn't big enough to accommodate all this, so I decided to tarp over everything, get some rest and recoil, and approach the next day (today) in a better frame of mind. 

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Even when using appropriate splitting stands the gear must be "wobbled" forward with a pry bar from underneath. Very little force is required. The gear does not contact the housing squarely, causing it to **** on the shaft.

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19 hours ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

The 2 previous posters are right. I saw a picture somewhere of using 2 bolts with nuts to hold the gear into the race. I did it one time then always used a pry bar after that. 

There is an actual service tool for that and I found them to work quite well.

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124E59CA-9960-4430-9519-5366F15B4D76.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, Maynard said:

There is an actual service tool for that and I found them to work quite well.

Oh they did. I should make a set. 

Do you have a picture?  Weren't they a bolt into a spacer of some type? 

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2 minutes ago, FarmerFixEmUp said:

Oh they did. I should make a set. 

Do you have a picture?  Weren't they a bolt into a spacer of some type? 

Added the pictures of one of them to my original post, one shows the tool number. 
Takes two of them, they are positioned on each side of the gear between the back face of the gear and the transmission housing and tightened just enough to hold them in place with the gear square to the shaft.

Easy to make with a pair of high nuts, two bolts and some 1/4" steel rod for handles.

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Well I finally got it the redneck way.  I tried everything, even put longer bolts into the two housings to try and zip it back together enough to release the pressure on that gear.  I never was able to get decent leverage with a pry bar, tried really long chisels soft hammered in to free up some space but never had over a 1/4 inch from the wall of the case.  Glad I'm no rebuilding this unit, don't think it needed it anyway, but I did damage the front bearing on the differential case side.  Last resort was to hook it up by chain to the front end loader and bounce it, reversing at the same time.   It finally came loose and popped out.  I have pics of what I've ended up with and would like advice how to avoid this nasty fight again.  Next time I'm going to use that tool that was suggested.  Thank you everyone, if I see you around town, I'll buy you a nice gold brown ice cold Shinerbock.

image1(73).jpeg

image4(53).jpeg

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You must have had a particularly nasty one.   I've split one of these dozens of times, and never needed anything but a little wiggle with a prybar.   Are the splines worn into a "groove" giving the gear a place to "hang up"??

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Well, from your pictures here, it doesn't show the openings where the gear was located or where it was hanging up at.  Your first picture, I see you have a bearing cage unbolted from the rear end, and is hanging on the shaft, hopefully, you didn't mistake that 4 bolt housing from the 4 bolt cap in the opening of the clutch housing that I described earlier.  The gear was bound up in the clutch & T/A housing (speed transmission).

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Just now, Nebraska1206 said:

Well, from your pictures here, it doesn't show the openings where the gear was located or where it was hanging up at.  Your first picture, I see you have a bearing cage unbolted from the rear end, and is hanging on the shaft, hopefully, you didn't mistake that 4 bolt housing from the 4 bolt cap in the opening of the clutch housing that I described earlier.  The gear was bound up in the clutch & T/A housing (speed transmission).

I must have misunderstood you, this thing was a real animal.  The PTO gear is still frozen onto the PTO shaft in the differential case.  One of the problems here is my novice knowledge (like none) of these higher HP IH tractors.  I've dismantled some big Masseys, Whites, and a couple of JDs.  On Whites I finally learned to pull the PTO assembly and shaft before splitting the transmissions, I think maybe this would have been the better approach on this IH as well.  This one sure gave me a bloody nose that's for sure.

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22 minutes ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

You must have had a particularly nasty one.   I've split one of these dozens of times, and never needed anything but a little wiggle with a prybar.   Are the splines worn into a "groove" giving the gear a place to "hang up"??

I haven't been able to see that yet, the PTO gear is still frozen onto the PTO shaft, I think I will remove the PTO assembly from the rear and see if the shaft will slide out the back of the tractor, then I'll be able to understand if that was the case.

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 IIRC, what we are referring to by the "PTO gear" is the lower gear at the front of the speed transmission, just behind the clutch area.   The long PTO shaft stays with the rear end, just like you have in your picture.   You have to disassembly the rear end to get it out.   

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Okay, so the gear we're referencing for you was/is in the speed transmission housing, which is the front housing you were struggling to remove from the rear housing.  The long IPTO driveshaft that you see sticking out from the rear end housing, that shaft stays there, and requires a full teardown of the rear end to remove that.  The gear that was putting up a fight, that was splined at the front of the long PTO driveshaft.  Take a look at the front of that shaft, its 6 splined, much like a 540 shaft.  The gear was bound up on that, in the front section you were trying to remove.  Now, if you would remove the MCV valve from the LH side of the front section you were removing, you'll see that gear laying down inside there.  That's the gear that was giving you fits.

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54 minutes ago, Nebraska1206 said:

Okay, so the gear we're referencing for you was/is in the speed transmission housing, which is the front housing you were struggling to remove from the rear housing.  The long IPTO driveshaft that you see sticking out from the rear end housing, that shaft stays there, and requires a full teardown of the rear end to remove that.  The gear that was putting up a fight, that was splined at the front of the long PTO driveshaft.  Take a look at the front of that shaft, its 6 splined, much like a 540 shaft.  The gear was bound up on that, in the front section you were trying to remove.  Now, if you would remove the MCV valve from the LH side of the front section you were removing, you'll see that gear laying down inside there.  That's the gear that was giving you fits.

My Lord, I had all this akbasswards.   Yes, I thought you were referring to the gear in the front of the differential case.  Yes, the front of the PTO shaft looks very similar to a 540, 6 spline.  I see the MCV, what does MCV stand for?  Did I say something about being an idiot on these IH transmissions? ?  I realize this is not a private forum, but please guys, never fess up that you had a conversation with me because you may not sit well the associated degradation.?

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1 hour ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

 IIRC, what we are referring to by the "PTO gear" is the lower gear at the front of the speed transmission, just behind the clutch area.   The long PTO shaft stays with the rear end, just like you have in your picture.   You have to disassembly the rear end to get it out.   

Will it slide out if I pull the PTO assembly from the rear?  I'm sure there's a retainer holding it in somewhere in the middle of the case though. 

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MCV stands for Multiple Control Valve, this valve routes and supplies oil to various places on the tractor, including steering, brakes, and most importantly, the T/A.  Removing that from the LH side of the front transmission housing, would give you access to the gear that was giving you troubles the whole time.

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17 minutes ago, Nebraska1206 said:

MCV stands for Multiple Control Valve, this valve routes and supplies oil to various places on the tractor, including steering, brakes, and most importantly, the T/A.  Removing that from the LH side of the front transmission housing, would give you access to the gear that was giving you troubles the whole time.

Thank you!  So much help here, I'm very humbled.

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If removing the MCV - leave the little short bolts holding the MCV together, and the 4 long bolts in the middle holding the pump, in place.  Only remove the long bolts around the outside (experimentation is necessary to figure out exactly which).

And yes, you need to dig clear down into the Rear end to remove the shaft.   I don't remember ever taking out the PTO though, just can't remember.

Hey, we all gotta learn somehow.    

BTW, there are some tricks while going back together too, like holding that big flat roller bearing together with rubber bands.  And NEVER "pull" the engine/clutch to transmission together with bolts or come-along.  They should slide in fully before installing the bolts.    If it don't go, it ain't lined up right.  Ask the great team on here if there are any questions....a whole lot easier to ask then fix later!

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1 hour ago, Jeff-C-IL said:

If removing the MCV - leave the little short bolts holding the MCV together, and the 4 long bolts in the middle holding the pump, in place.  Only remove the long bolts around the outside (experimentation is necessary to figure out exactly which).

And yes, you need to dig clear down into the Rear end to remove the shaft.   I don't remember ever taking out the PTO though, just can't remember.

Hey, we all gotta learn somehow.    

BTW, there are some tricks while going back together too, like holding that big flat roller bearing together with rubber bands.  And NEVER "pull" the engine/clutch to transmission together with bolts or come-along.  They should slide in fully before installing the bolts.    If it don't go, it ain't lined up right.  Ask the great team on here if there are any questions....a whole lot easier to ask then fix later!

I am sure glad you told me about the difference in bolts, avoiding another nightmare!  Thank you!  I really appreciate the help from all of you, I wish I had the sense to ask beforehand.  As this moves along, I certainly will, and BTW I'll keep the Shinerbock iced down.?

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