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Farmall 560 diesel electrical question


Turner03
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Hello. I purchased my 560 a couple weeks ago. Seller sent a can of starter fluid with it. I’ve crunk it up 3 times and had to use a tad bit. The wiring is chopped up. Some gauges aren’t even connected. It’s missing some gauges. There are no wires connected to the glow plug gauge. They just go to the push button beside the gauge. Power is going through the switch when pressed. I’m going to replace the glow plugs. It has been converted to 12 volt. Is there a full wiring diagram for one that has been converted? Also is there two push buttons (like the starter) on the instrument cluster? Thank you.

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I wouldn't recommend using starting fluid with glow plugs on those tractors ,That's a big No-No makes the head gaskets disappear pretty fast

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2 minutes ago, Turner03 said:

I have ordered glow plugs off of eBay from hayshaker. I will not use starting fluid again. Never. Thank you guys.

i have owned D282 560s, they have been in SD and MO winters, BOTH would start easy with the glow plugs and yes even down to ZERO or below in SD sitting outside. BOTH had 2 6volt batteries in series. Glow plug buttons can go out - easily check/seen by indication on gauge OR if by yourself, turn on lights and watch them DIM when you hit the button, that will tell you its drawing power. You can set a volt meter on the batteries and press the button also and watch the battery power drop if you have clamps or extra hands. You can check the glow plugs for continuity like a light bulb to see if they are good/bad. 

I never used starting fluid on my D282s never had to. 

In the current temps, 45 seconds would be about right to hold on a cold start and it should fire if ALL the glow plugs are working. If only 1 or 2 or 3 are working it would be difficult to start if at all and would smoke like a locomotive when cranking. 

Does it seem to be missing/cutting out and then all cylinders come in/fire after a minute or two? 

 

 

 

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It smokes like a train when cranking. Just won’t start. When I gave a couple of squirts of starter fluid it fires up and after a moment clears up and runs fine. I’m in Georgia. Bought it from Indiana. Business that I bought from said the previous owner won a couple of tractor pulls with it and probably had the fuel turned up. Maybe if it’s dumping more fuel than necessary on start up that’s why it smokes and is hard to crank? But then again I suspect the glow plugs are all bad so it would be hard to crank anyhow. It was like 88 here the other day and tractor was partially sitting in the sun. It still would not crank being that warm. I took the glow plug meter out and nothing is even hooked to it. I checked 12volts at the switch and then again just before the 1st glow plug with the switch being held down. It showed 12 volts. I was able to remove all the glow plugs. None of them had ‘light bulbed’. Most plugs I have found say 11 volts or less. What can I do electrical to keep the plugs from burning out when I put the new ones in? Any suggestions are very welcome.

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6 minutes ago, Turner03 said:

What can I do electrical to keep the plugs from burning out when I put the new ones

Don't use glow plugs with battery charger or jumpers. If alternator equipped. Don't hold plugs on after starting. If necessary to jump start. Remove ground clamp while heating. Then install clamp and start cranking at same time. Alternately and more risky. Don't hold plugs on more than 20 seconds with jumper voltages.

This is with standard plugs. "Fast" plugs will burn out three times qicker.

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24 minutes ago, Turner03 said:

It was like 88 here the other day and tractor was partially sitting in the sun. It still would not crank being that warm

These engines require glow plugs unless they have just been turned off.

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Thanks very much for the advice. I won’t hold the plugs on after cranking. No jumping off and such. I’d just take battery out and charge it. I don’t live on a farm and it won’t be used like that. My grandfather had one and rode me on it as a small child. Sentimental reasons. Been looking for one years but the ones I found here are mostly rust buckets out in the middle of a pasture. They are out the wazoo in the Midwest, which is where I found this one. I guess it snows so much up there owners have to keep them in barns where here they just sit outside and over time rust and rot. Again thanks.

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I reckon I’ll hook the glow plug meter back up along with the switch. As long as I follow your directions from earlier posts I assume I don’t need to put a voltage reducer/resistor in the line. I’m sure I’ll be on here a good bit from now on getting direction and advice. My name is Mike. Nice to meet y’all.

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A glow plug is just an electric heating element.   It sucks a LOT of current.   You would need a very high wattage resistor to handle the current or you would burn out the resistor.   Also, all you would be doing is making the glow plug heat less, which may not get your tractor started.   

Normal glow plugs are 12V rated.   From an EE point of view, "Fast" ones are actually just plugs rated for 6V, which heat up way faster when 12V is applied.....but burn out if held on too long.  OEM Fast plug systems are usually designed with a timer to shut them off before they burn out.   

Learn how long in seconds it takes with the glow plugs to make the engine start (work up to it).   Don't exceed that length of time.    Best way to keep from burning them out.  

 

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6 minutes ago, kevinj said:

That looks high.

Get with injpumped on this forum.

Maybe even buy a proper wiring harness, as said above the glow plugs need lots of amps and proper wiring!

Thank you. I will look into wiring harnesses. Dang they are high but I understand it’s a necessity.

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9 minutes ago, Turner03 said:

Thank you. I will look into wiring harnesses. Dang they are high but I understand it’s a necessity.

Look hard at the time and material to build your own......

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thanks, but he has already ordered his, mine aren't much less at 16 each, so 96 plus about $10 shipping.

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1 - yes hook up switch and push button the glow plugs cant get power w/out them unless you have wired around them some how

2 - test the glow plugs before removing they might be fine you may not have held the button in long enough to try to start it - 45 seconds minimum 

3 - those engines ARE NOT designed to start w/out glow plugs even at 80 degree ambient temp outside ( no i am not kidding ) 

4 - those engines WILL start w/out glow plugs AFTER at operating temp but let them sit and cool down for a while and you will need to use the glow plug button all over again

5 - smoking like a train is a good thing, it means its getting fuel and should tart once there is heat in the engine

6 - in my 20+ yrs of owning two of these i only had one glow plug failure and who knows how long they were in there before I acquired them - I never bothered to fix it until I sold it, i started it that way for the 20 + years of ownership and my FIL in SD ran it that way for at least a decade before that 

7 - those tractors are EASY PEASY to wire/hook up things. 

8 - as for testing the glow plugs, you can check them right in the tractor they either work or they dont. Just unhook the wire from the spade on the glow plug, get out your test light, hook it to the positive post of your battery , touch the probe end of the test light to the spade/blade of the glow plug. If the test light lights up,  the plug is good and if it doesnt light, replace the glow plug. 

 

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10 hours ago, searcyfarms said:

smoking like a train is a good thing, it means its getting fuel and should tart once there is heat in the engine

Yes, to some extent. He did say it was used for pulling and was turned up. I've seen so many turn these old N/A Precup engines way too far. That may be why the glow plugs weren't working, because they found it easier to start with small amount of ether, and holding the fuel shut-off out some to cut down on excess fuel drowning it. Ether on indirect injection engines is not a good deal though, unless very experienced with it, it's easy to lock them up. Indirect injection engines typically do need to be glowed every time it's started, just the nature of the design. Lanova cell engines would start better if they had glow plugs too lol! Try cranking it with the shut-off out still and slowly go in until you just start getting smoke. Cranked up injection pumps can easily flood the cylinders. 

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6 minutes ago, Injpumped said:

Yes, to some extent. He did say it was used for pulling and was turned up. I've seen so many turn these old N/A Precup engines way too far. That may be why the glow plugs weren't working, because they found it easier to start with small amount of ether, and holding the fuel shut-off out some to cut down on excess fuel drowning it. Ether on indirect injection engines is not a good deal though, unless very experienced with it, it's easy to lock them up. Indirect injection engines typically do need to be glowed every time it's started, just the nature of the design. Lanova cell engines would start better if they had glow plugs too lol! Try cranking it with the shut-off out still and slowly go in until you just start getting smoke. Cranked up injection pumps can easily flood the cylinders. 

absolutely agree, my 560s were both healthy and turned up a wee bit, and yes they both smoked like a train if you didnt use the glow plugs long enough or it was cold cold cold outside cranking on them, even standing on the glow plugs they smoked a fair bit before they fired, the pumps were easy to turn up and a  lot of peeps learned how to do it. MORE smoke doesnt necessarily mean MORE power to a certain degree - the rpms were turned up also from a stock 560 - they ran faster on the 660, 706 and combine engines. 

you know way way more than I do about all this stuff and the pumps i sure dont want to mislead anyone - just getting smoke is not a sure bet only a sign you are getting fuel not necessarily at the right time tho 

I would agree they are easily flooded and hard to fire that is why i errored on the side of longer on the glow plugs before starting - ran thinner oil in winter too

 

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Go to Porch Electric for a new harness if needed.    Wiring seems expensive, but y'all remember its got to be all hand made.    Harnesses are one thing that does not get automation....just too complex for the poor robot to handle.    I got a full electrical shop---and I still bought my new 666 wiring harnesses from Porch's.   Just wasn't worth building my own for what I could buy them for. 

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