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No Spraying!


hobbyfarm
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Any of you have landowners that say no spraying?  We have an 8 acre rented piece that we can't spray on.  It is complicated but I'll keep it at that for sake of discussion. The rent is cheap enough that it makes sense to keep using the ground.  We went from oats to sudangrass to triticale and will plant sudangrass next week again.  Any words of wisdom on aggressive crops that keep weeds from growing?  Anyone farm any non organic no spray ground?  

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Cereal Rye works really good to choke weeds out. We chop it and then plant soybeans in the stubble. The beans need to be post sprayed, but there is hardly a need for burn down. If we did not chop it and rolled/crimped it instead I bet you could get by with no spray at all. Others on here may have done it and will know for sure. 

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1 minute ago, hobbyfarm said:

Any of you have landowners that say no spraying?  We have an 8 acre rented piece that we can't spray on.  It is complicated but I'll keep it at that for sake of discussion. The rent is cheap enough that it makes sense to keep using the ground.  We went from oats to sudangrass to triticale and will plant sudangrass next week again.  Any words of wisdom on aggressive crops that keep weeds from growing?  Anyone farm any non organic no spray ground?  

  There are such landowners around and usually they wind up renting the ground out for hay to someone who typically does not spray for insects or competing plants.  For field crops including corn maybe find one of those tine type cultivators but until 3 years passes you cannot claim organic so it is the worst of all worlds to be in.  Anyways, usually these landowners want the full gambit of organic practices including using manure plus legumes as a N source which makes things more complicated.  I guess it's a matter of how many hoops you want to jump through plus how long you get to keep renting

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1 hour ago, 766 Man said:

  There are such landowners around and usually they wind up renting the ground out for hay to someone who typically does not spray for insects or competing plants.  For field crops including corn maybe find one of those tine type cultivators but until 3 years passes you cannot claim organic so it is the worst of all worlds to be in.  Anyways, usually these landowners want the full gambit of organic practices including using manure plus legumes as a N source which makes things more complicated.  I guess it's a matter of how many hoops you want to jump through plus how long you get to keep renting

Your pretty much spot on with the grass hay with weeds.  I put $1000 in lime on this ground last spring.  The spray issue never came up until we did a burndown on the triticale.  I guess  you a right in that it depends on how many hoops we need or want to jump through.

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1 hour ago, hobbyfarm said:

Any of you have landowners that say no spraying?  We have an 8 acre rented piece that we can't spray on.  It is complicated but I'll keep it at that for sake of discussion. The rent is cheap enough that it makes sense to keep using the ground.  We went from oats to sudangrass to triticale and will plant sudangrass next week again.  Any words of wisdom on aggressive crops that keep weeds from growing?  Anyone farm any non organic no spray ground?  

...on our rented block....(that we recently "lost ").....the landowner 's   were  not keen on spraying.........thus  we put in our summer feed crops , as early as possible in the spring...which usually meant the weeds were choked out .......

We have a very invasive weed called ""Woolly    Mullien ".....so where ever a "scab" is created ...this stuff comes up.....ends up six feet high, plus, in its second  and final year of growth.....Tordon slows it right down...but with the "no spray " rule ..it was very difficult to beat it...thus seeding winter feed brassica...in early autumn, needed a shower  or two at the right time to get the brassica away....before this other thing started to come up...

On pasture land, I would  rotary slash...(Brush  hog  ??!!)  this weed...It would respond by sending up multiple seed heads from its now 3 or 4 inch  hieght...It just never gave up...but then...what weed does ??

If the extended forecast looked 'dry'' for weeks prior to sowing winter feed....I would cultivate the ground, weekly...in an endeavour to at least have the weed seeds   (millions )...and the "crop"  sitting even on the starting blocks....:)

Mike

 

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37 minutes ago, Big Bud guy said:

I have landlords totally forbid plowing which is actually fine by me.  

Yeah, had some Tillage nazi's here too...............But, rolled in with a NH3 bar and mole knives and ran rows and nobody questioned anything.  My current landlord's father was one of those..............I have been trying to rent the same place for a number of years again, of-course the father passed, son has it, and that is about as much as he knows about it along with what the taxes cost.  I work on his power equipment yet, and fix stuff on and around his business buildings so I annoying him about it all the time.  Anyhow at the beginning of the year the former renter ticked him off, and hadn't lived up to his end of the deal.  Wanted to know if the number I offered was still good, told him yes, he said you can have it.  I told him jokingly I will write you out a check right now, BUT, I am not going to see your Cadillac roll into the field every time I am doing something and tell me that is not the way it is getting done on this ground.  He got as big of a laugh out of it as I did, and it was true......................This one though could care less.  

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16 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

My fertilizer guy mixes spray in his dry fertilizer mixer coating it. It works. Just sayin.....

I'd play it pretty straight with landlords.  It might not be good if the landlord sees certain weeds yellow up and die in the field or word gets back to him that an herbicide was worked into the fertilizer.  

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Is their house close by? Tell them you have to spread poultry manure to offset no spraying, (little fib). Cannot be tilled in for a few weeks as to burn off the weeds.... pile it on heavy.... After a week or so they'll probably be just fine with a little spray if you will plow the manure in.

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No spray = no crops! --- end of story, so IF they dont allow chems. ---- I refuse to farm their patches!

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46 minutes ago, Missouri Mule said:

My fertilizer guy mixes spray in his dry fertilizer mixer coating it. It works. Just sayin.....

Yup, what they don't know won't hurt them..................Honestly, they don't understand it to start with, hence the "No Spraying" to begin with.

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I'll take the side of the landowner. I can 100% guarantee you guys that if I said "No Spray" and you got caught, your lease would be terminated on the spot and you would be assured that this is your last year farming ANY of my ground.

I say this because I am one of those not spray/limited spray landlords. My wife has a business in the middle of one of our farms. Each year we plant 20-50 lbs of wild flower seeds around the business area. You talk about the cost of seed corn etc...... you should buy 50 lbs of wildflower seed sometime. It is usually sold by the ounce. Our renter is very good about working with us. Absolutely ZERO dicamba and any others are sprayed only when the wind is right. He has worked with us since day one Not only spraying but he makes sure that if she has a function or anything there, they will make sure they do not do field work or harvest there that day. I couldn't ask for a better renter, and in return he gets a break on the rent on this farm.

I say all this because some of the posts above struck a nerve. You seem to forget who owns the land. The rules are spelled out in the lease. We have both done some give and take on the farm. The other farms rents from us he farms as he chooses. 

I believe someone said in another thread several months ago (and I'll paraphrase). "In my house you obey my rules, in yours, I obey yours".

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1 hour ago, dads706 said:

I'll take the side of the landowner. I can 100% guarantee you guys that if I said "No Spray" and you got caught, your lease would be terminated on the spot and you would be assured that this is your last year farming ANY of my ground.

I say this because I am one of those not spray/limited spray landlords. My wife has a business in the middle of one of our farms. Each year we plant 20-50 lbs of wild flower seeds around the business area. You talk about the cost of seed corn etc...... you should buy 50 lbs of wildflower seed sometime. It is usually sold by the ounce. Our renter is very good about working with us. Absolutely ZERO dicamba and any others are sprayed only when the wind is right. He has worked with us since day one Not only spraying but he makes sure that if she has a function or anything there, they will make sure they do not do field work or harvest there that day. I couldn't ask for a better renter, and in return he gets a break on the rent on this farm.

I say all this because some of the posts above struck a nerve. You seem to forget who owns the land. The rules are spelled out in the lease. We have both done some give and take on the farm. The other farms rents from us he farms as he chooses. 

I believe someone said in another thread several months ago (and I'll paraphrase). "In my house you obey my rules, in yours, I obey yours".

Ok. I can agree. However you "working" with your renter and him working back is a whole different story. You have a business/lifestyle to worry about. I work with my landlords just the same. You say yourself you allow minimal spray as long as it doesn't effect your flowers etc. That's not the same as no spray at all just because you heard it was bad for you. Not saying I would do such a thing just a suggestion for conversation sake. I still say were talking about 2 much different situations. 

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1 hour ago, Missouri Mule said:

Ok. I can agree. However you "working" with your renter and him working back is a whole different story. You have a business/lifestyle to worry about. I work with my landlords just the same. You say yourself you allow minimal spray as long as it doesn't effect your flowers etc. That's not the same as no spray at all just because you heard it was bad for you. Not saying I would do such a thing just a suggestion for conversation sake. I still say were talking about 2 much different situations. 

+1, READ the post......................Not allowing spraying or tillage because you "Read in the Newspaper" is far different than having a real valid reason.  

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This is a situation where it seems the neighbor of the landowner has pressured or bullied the landowner into this.  Their house backs up to the field more so then the actual landowner.  The land is about as close to free to use as it could be.  Do we need it?  No.  Could we find other land if we really wanted to?  Yes probably, but at 10x the cost.  So saying this it makes sense to continue to try to make it work.  I did have it sprayed with Roundup and sharpen to prevent the triticale from coming back before the sudangrass can choke it out.  The sudangrass can not have a residual like azatrine of dual.  Said party found out and all heck broken loose.  At just 8 acres many would say why bother.  I guess short of renting a whole farm that is how the land comed available on the edge of suburbia.  I have 6 landlords.  We have great relationships with all of them.

In the last 2 weeks I have been in a bit of a slump and wonder why I do any of this.  I think I love to grow things and produce a product even if it is on a small scale.  Sometimes you have to wonder if it is worth it. 

 

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I know the feeling.................I put up some little chunks last week nobody else would bother with, but after last year, anything is better than nothing is how I look at it.  I seem to forget the agony when I bite into a steak or cheeseburger here though.  

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OK guys, good points all. What jerked my chain was that some felt that it was their way or the highway.

Sonny seemed to be saying " You're not going to tell me how I'm going to do things.". In my part of Iowa you would be told to not let the door hit you on the way out. Not trying to be a smart ass, but around here land doesn't often come up for rent. If I went to the local coffee crowd and said I had some land for rent, there would probably be 3 or 4 pickups on my yard by the time I got home. 

Mule's plan works, but seems to be looking for a way to sneak something past the landlord. Run your idea past the landlord. He may like it, or it may piss him off that much worse.

Cat's idea is just a way to pour salt on an already open sore. 

 

As a landlord, I'm going to tell you what I'm putting in the lease and why I'm doing it. We may both have reasons for doing what we do that the other party isn't aware of. The situation here is also a bit different if for no more than the scale of the land in question. In my situation, we are talking about 540 acres though the farm we we are referring to is only a 160, but I have the same renter for all of it. I'm sure Hobby's 8 acres are just as important to him as mine are to me.

I don't like being bullied. As I've said I have a great renter. If this can't be fixed, maybe it's best to just cut your losses and walk away.

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I am a landowner myself and also rent land and the people I rent from know what it takes to grow crops and tend the land so they have no problems with how I farm and yes I subsoil and moldboard plow most of what I farm.  One place has a 40 acre field that is HEL so I use my homemade ripper on it and leave the top residue in place ---corn yield last year was 225 dry bu. per acre and one happy landlord.

I am not saying this works in all areas or for everyone but thats the way it is around here.

I do a few neighboring patches just to keep the weeds down for the owners and I have explained to them that chems are a must. All but one agrees on that and his 5 acres grows up in weeds and trees now. nobody else will farm it either and thats fine with us---its his land he can do whatever he likes with it .

I cleaned up one 10 acre field for one of the owners so the land could be productive for him. He wanted 2 acres for market gardens and on the rest I dont put anything on it that he dont use on his garden. We talk about what kind of chems that can be used on his side and do the whole 10 acres with the same stuff. He decides on what is used and at what rate.

I respect their land and if they want 0 chems I cant farm it--- no one else will either!

 

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Ever look into a cable rod weeder?

Worked in the early days for decades, might still find some parked in old equipment rows, they didn’t fair as well in rocky soils 

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The landlord owns the land. They can make the rules.

You are the renter, you work with the landlords rules or leave. 

However the landlord's rules can affect the value of the land and rent price.

Thx-Ace 

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10 hours ago, SONNY said:

I am a landowner myself and also rent land and the people I rent from know what it takes to grow crops and tend the land so they have no problems with how I farm and yes I subsoil and moldboard plow most of what I farm.  One place has a 40 acre field that is HEL so I use my homemade ripper on it and leave the top residue in place ---corn yield last year was 225 dry bu. per acre and one happy landlord.

I am not saying this works in all areas or for everyone but thats the way it is around here.

I do a few neighboring patches just to keep the weeds down for the owners and I have explained to them that chems are a must. All but one agrees on that and his 5 acres grows up in weeds and trees now. nobody else will farm it either and thats fine with us---its his land he can do whatever he likes with it .

I cleaned up one 10 acre field for one of the owners so the land could be productive for him. He wanted 2 acres for market gardens and on the rest I dont put anything on it that he dont use on his garden. We talk about what kind of chems that can be used on his side and do the whole 10 acres with the same stuff. He decides on what is used and at what rate.

I respect their land and if they want 0 chems I cant farm it--- no one else will either!

 

Yes, no one else will farm the land.  Access stinks and I started farming it with a brush hog followed by a disc.

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54 minutes ago, hardtail said:

Ever look into a cable rod weeder?

Worked in the early days for decades, might still find some parked in old equipment rows, they didn’t fair as well in rocky soils 

Will have to check out what they are.  Not really familiar.  Minimal rock, pretty good ground.

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