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8 hours ago, TroyDairy said:

So cant you just shredder it all down?  The stalks.  I thought a no till machine went though anything....?  Now i am confused.

How does it help dry out the field @from H to 80?  Opening up the residue?

i have a video of it running when we first got it,but i'm not smart enough to post it. yes it just opens up the top few inches of soil to dry it out and try to warm it up a little.

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I have said for years that there are places for no-till, minimum till and full on conventional tillage. Good farmers in any of the practices have great crops. Fair and poor farmers are fair to poor fa

Vertical Tillage? Or Vermont?

We have a CIH 330 TT. Best use we have found for it is taking up valuable shed space. I think we worked 34 acres of corn stalks last fall with it. Should move it to a fence row. Rented a Salford, it w

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And that doesn't compact it?

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1 hour ago, acem said:

It seems alot like a disk to me. I always considered a disk vertical tillage.

 

It doesn’t move near as much soil as a disk so doesn’t level quite as good. One of ours has wavy disks the other has slightly concaved disks. 

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Vertical tillage was the next big thing here in NW Missouri about eight or ten years ago. Every region is different, so this may or may not apply to you. I don’t know of anyone still using one and there used to be many. I used to run quite a few acres of custom NH3 and saw how many different farms operate. One guy I did quite a bit of work for had a John Deere VT tool of some sort. It was like a disk, but had straight blades on it, I’m unsure of the model number. He had some corn on corn and thought he had too much residue. The first few years he used it he thought it was great because there was visibly less residue on the field at planting time. He thought this was because it chopped it up and allowed it to break down faster. He came to the conclusion that the only reason there was less residue was because it was blowing and washing away. I thought this was obvious because I could see residue piling up in the fence rows and the ditches on windy days when I worked for him. The ground here is pretty rolling and I saw a lot of unnecessary erosion from these tools as well. It often required additional passes with a field cultivator to smooth up the washouts that they caused after big rains. I never saw any benefit from them. If I was a betting man, I would bet with the current commodity prices there will be a lot of unnecessary machinery purchased again, just like there was the last time. All the while claiming that there is no way they could farm without it. 

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Watched a neighbor running a Salford in irrigated corn stalks this morning and I must say it looked like a waist of fuel.

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Anything with a concaved disc is not VT despite whatever fancy names they want to give the equipment and it just adds compaction. Straight blade will shatter the compaction.

I tried some of the foo foo soil prep methods and setting the planter up for no till makes way more sense to me, which is what I did end up doing.  
 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, toyboy said:

Anything with a concaved disc is not VT despite whatever fancy names they want to give the equipment and it just adds compaction. Straight blade will shatter the compaction.

I tried some of the foo foo soil prep methods and setting the planter up for no till makes way more sense to me, which is what I did end up doing.  
 

 

 

 

Why does a straight blade not compact  vs a concave.  Aint the psi the same per point?

Here we all disc and plow etc.  Nothing else seems to yield or make as nice of grass fields

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Interesting.  I've never even seen one at an auction.  

Not much no till round here. A neighbor and I try to no till when our ruts from harvest aren't too bad but they have been horrible the past few years.

I can't make it work in my rice soybean rotation. I have to pull rice levees for rice then knock them down and pull beds for my soybeans. I try to no till my flat planted ground as much as possible.

I believe no till is much better for the soil and the environment. At least my ground is flat.

Thx-Ace 

P s:compaction is a desirable trait for a rice field.

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Foo foo disks, weed bruisers are just a couple monikers. They have been the fad for the past 8-10 years, now it is speed disks. At least the speedtillers move some dirt. A lot of the VT tools got parked after the first couple years. 
  As far as compaction, VT tools, speed disks all put in compaction layers. Pick your depth you want. 
In my opinion, if you want to do tillage, do conventional tillage with chisel plow, moldboard plow, disk ripper etc.or go no-till. 
Most of these tools are expensive gimmicks to sell more equipment and parts. The speed disks are still relatively new so their long term usage is yet to be determined, however studies are showing a compaction layer at 2-3”, just below seed depth. Not where I would want a compaction layer. 

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A Deere salesman told me seeding equipment has good offering's that can be added for doing no till. There's no reason to be buying expensive VT tools. And he sells VT tools.

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I have an 18 ft Salford, pulled it with a 7120 if its dry, but when we are trying to dry out wet fields, the 4890 pulls it an 10 to 12 mph. It doesn't turn ground black, never was intended to. It also doesn't incorporate fertilizer, maybe a little but not completely.  It is amazing what it will do for wet fields. With warm sunny weather a day will get you into the field to plant. I use it for residue and to level worked fields. For example we had many acres flooded by james river last 2 seasons. Finally got in with a 485 disc last fall, got stuff knocked down but ridged and no mulcher. Salford makes a better seed bed and levels out the high spots. If you need it turned black, use a disc. I dont think there is a perfect tillage tool, that's why we have a disc, field cultivator and the Salford. Dont use all three each year but usually at least one a little bit. We are no till unless it floods and we have to deal with cattails and other tall growth

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25 minutes ago, 1958560 said:

I have an 18 ft Salford, pulled it with a 7120 if its dry, but when we are trying to dry out wet fields, the 4890 pulls it an 10 to 12 mph. It doesn't turn ground black, never was intended to. It also doesn't incorporate fertilizer, maybe a little but not completely.  It is amazing what it will do for wet fields. With warm sunny weather a day will get you into the field to plant. I use it for residue and to level worked fields. For example we had many acres flooded by james river last 2 seasons. Finally got in with a 485 disc last fall, got stuff knocked down but ridged and no mulcher. Salford makes a better seed bed and levels out the high spots. If you need it turned black, use a disc. I dont think there is a perfect tillage tool, that's why we have a disc, field cultivator and the Salford. Dont use all three each year but usually at least one a little bit. We are no till unless it floods and we have to deal with cattails and other tall growth

+1.

Salfords are about the only form of tillage tool we even sell anymore...been like that for the last 10 years or so. On a wet spring like 2019 or last year, Salfords meant the difference between wet ground being planted or being put into PP. Just about every 600 Quadtrac around here was pulling a 41' or 44' Salford at 10-12 MPH...made the Quadtracs bark trying to pull them that fast but you need that speed to do a good job with them. Also, we are EXTREMELY rocky here, the Salford shank is the only thing that seems to hold up very well when doing tillage at that speed. With the Salfords, I have seen many times where a field that was too wet to drive a regular MFWD tractor or rubber-tired 4WD tractor by itself in the morning was able to be planted that afternoon after the Salford went through to break up the crust and residue to allow the sun to dry it out. Now, a spring like this being so dry, nobody even hooked up to a Salford this spring. Salford also makes 100lb. weights you can hang onto the frame for better penetration as well.

Also have some Degelman Pro-tills around here, some Horsch Anderson Jokers as well, Summers makes a VT that we sell.

About 10 years ago we had a couple manufacturers testing some VT equipment around here since our area is known for being so rocky. All I'll say is...some of those machines went back to their respective manufacturer....in several broken pieces. Needless to say, they didn't pass the test.

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I went later yesterday and walked into the field where the neighbor was running the Salford and upon further inspection it was actually doing a good job of sizing the residue and mixing it in the soil, looking from the road it didn't appear to be doing much.

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7 hours ago, 856 Custom said:

A Deere salesman told me seeding equipment has good offering's that can be added for doing no till. There's no reason to be buying expensive VT tools. And he sells VT tools.

My family has been no tilling since the late 80's.  No till equipment does not need any type of tillage tool to get the seed planted.  However I understand the reason for people needing to open things so it dries out enough to plant.  That can be an issue with no till in certain years and some soil types.  We still no till soybeans but have been doing strip till corn for many years for several reasons, 1 of which is quicker warm up in the strip.

I do think it's funny when I hear people say they use a vertical tillage tool on no till acres.  I know it's nit picky....but if you are using a tillage tool....it's no longer no till.

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19 minutes ago, IH Forever said:

My family has been no tilling since the late 80's.  No till equipment does not need any type of tillage tool to get the seed planted.  However I understand the reason for people needing to open things so it dries out enough to plant.  That can be an issue with no till in certain years and some soil types.  We still no till soybeans but have been doing strip till corn for many years for several reasons, 1 of which is quicker warm up in the strip.

I do think it's funny when I hear people say we use a vertical tillage tool on our no till.  I know it's nit picky....but if you are using a tillage tool....it's no longer no till.

I laugh when I hear that too. There is a guy here that is "no till" but runs a Turbotill and then a striptill machine ahead of planter. SMH

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I have said for years that there are places for no-till, minimum till and full on conventional tillage. Good farmers in any of the practices have great crops. Fair and poor farmers are fair to poor farmers no matter how they do it. 

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My Dad always claimed if he could farm straight up and straight down, he would have a tailwind blowin dirt over him one way or the other------OOPS, 

wrong kind of vertical tillage----sorry.😄

Mike 

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so got a new to me disc, not vertical, krause, ran it first time last night, how do i get the front to cut less and rear more, it wants to leave the lil strip of grass in the middle in the rear and the front digs hard with back barely cutting - our old 37 ih has a crank handle on the front for just such adjustment and this one has a big bolt, any idea which way to go with things ? gonna havfe to find a HUGE WRENCH for that hex head i think - the spring is broken but i am thinking that spring is just for absorbing bumps? 

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I think it is amazing how different farming practices are from region to region. I don’t even pretend to know what someone should be doing on their soil 500 miles away. I am sure the people 500 miles away know a lot more about their farm than I do. I have hired some guys to work for me from different areas of the country and am just amazed how different it is. A couple of guys from Illinois couldn’t believe that we didn’t chisel everything. That was the norm for them. Here we haven’t run a chisel in 35 years. One guy from Minnesota said his family was still moldboard plowing. That blew my mind, there is hardly anyone still farming here that would even know what to do with a moldboard plow. The only guys doing any tillage at all are some older guys who still can’t be convinced that you don’t need to work it. My dad started referring to their tillage program as “recreational tillage” twenty years ago. There have been some fads come and go, but for the most part nobody has worked any ground here since they came out with roundup ready soybeans. We personally have not worked any ground in almost 30 years other than to smooth up a few ruts or ditches. The ground dries good here and given any decent weather at all warms quickly. We also do not have heavy black dirt or (usually) very cold springs. I don’t even want to think about all the extra fuel, parts, and labor we would use if we had to work everything. 

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2 minutes ago, searcyfarms said:

so got a new to me disc, not vertical, krause, ran it first time last night, how do i get the front to cut less and rear more, it wants to leave the lil strip of grass in the middle in the rear and the front digs hard with back barely cutting - our old 37 ih has a crank handle on the front for just such adjustment and this one has a big bolt, any idea which way to go with things ? gonna havfe to find a HUGE WRENCH for that hex head i think - the spring is broken but i am thinking that spring is just for absorbing bumps? 

If the front gang is too deep and the rear is too shallow, you need to adjust it whichever way makes to tongue go down. This will raise the front and lower the rear. Probably easier said than done if it has not been moved in years. May need some heat and a long pipe. Good luck. 

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2 minutes ago, Dirt_Floor_Poor said:

If the front gang is too deep and the rear is too shallow, you need to adjust it whichever way makes to tongue go down. This will raise the front and lower the rear. Probably easier said than done if it has not been moved in years. May need some heat and a long pipe. Good luck. 

ok then it is that big ole sucker in front and yes its been a while LOL i tried to grease the threads yest - wouldnt take grease of course - time for a soaking iwth pb blaster i guess 

maybe that is why it digs that way, guy i got it from couldnt get it to move either LOL

our ground hasnt been till outside of one of the light tillage things with a rotary cage thing that follows it in years so it sure worked up nice outside of the wet areas and extra moisture

 

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11 minutes ago, searcyfarms said:

ok then it is that big ole sucker in front and yes its been a while LOL i tried to grease the threads yest - wouldnt take grease of course - time for a soaking iwth pb blaster i guess 

maybe that is why it digs that way, guy i got it from couldnt get it to move either LOL

our ground hasnt been till outside of one of the light tillage things with a rotary cage thing that follows it in years so it sure worked up nice outside of the wet areas and extra moisture

 

Your other option is to raise the drawbar of your tractor. On my older Case tractor I can turn the drawbar over. 
Krause used to make a good product. Only disc I have never been able to get where it performed good is John Deere. Doesn’t make any difference as to the model either. 

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yes i can flip my drawbar to make it higher, that might be the ticket - can try that it does sit kinda low on the 5088 and my droopy radials make it lower 

47 minutes ago, Lazy WP said:

Your other option is to raise the drawbar of your tractor. On my older Case tractor I can turn the drawbar over. 
Krause used to make a good product. Only disc I have never been able to get where it performed good is John Deere. Doesn’t make any difference as to the model either. 

 

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